Tim Ballard

[The Nehor]

18 hours ago, smac97 said:

Do you see a "moral panic" component to recent narratives re: child trafficking?  Not to say the problem doesn't exist, but that aspects of it are being distorted, sensationalized, crafted, etc.?

You mean other than QAnon and the attached sub theories like Pizzagate and the Adrenochrome harvesting nonsense?

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I love how he throws in the fact that some visitors to Hutchinson’s home had expensive, flashy cars as if this is relevant to anything.

And let's not forget his throwaway line about rumors of a "sex room" in the house:

Quote

that meeting was held at the home of 18:51 multi-millionaire Paul Hutchinson on many our sting operations Hutchinson 18:57 played the role of an American sex tourist pedophile he's portrayed in the sound of Freedom 19:03 by Eduardo barastagi the site of the Whiteboard meeting is 19:08 where Hutchinson held a lot of parties for the Rich and Famous that included millionaires celebrities and Utah Jazz 19:15 Stars many driving exotic sports cars a house rumored to have a so-called sex 19:22 room where some Partiers could go for a little privacy

Ah, "journalism" in 2023.  Keep it classy, Lynn!

When do we discuss "rumors" that Lynn Packer tortures puppies for fun and profit?  And when does my say-so of such a rumor become "evidence"?

(For context about this rumor, see here, here, here, here, here.)

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited October 9, 2023 by smac97

[Mark Beesley]

23 hours ago, smac97 said:

Do you see a "moral panic" component to recent narratives re: child trafficking?  Not to say the problem doesn't exist, but that aspects of it are being distorted, sensationalized, crafted, etc.?

That has been the case for over 40 years when I first became involved in child sex abuse cases. I attended an FBI presentation in the early 80s where the true numbers of child abductions, etc. was shown to be dramatically lower than “milk cartons” were claiming. Unsubstantiated and paranoid claims of satanic ritual abuse have been with us since before Q.

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Mark Beesley said:

Quote

Do you see a "moral panic" component to recent narratives re: child trafficking?  Not to say the problem doesn't exist, but that aspects of it are being distorted, sensationalized, crafted, etc.?

That has been the case for over 40 years when I first became involved in child sex abuse cases. I attended an FBI presentation in the early 80s where the true numbers of child abductions, etc. was shown to be dramatically lower than “milk cartons” were claiming. Unsubstantiated and paranoid claims of satanic ritual abuse have been with us since before Q.

But might there be a difference between "moral panic" instances associated with "child abductions" and "satanic ritual abuse" and more modern claims about child sex trafficking (which, per "Jimmy Rex" (I believe), commonly manifests in exploiting kids without actually kidnapping them or moving them out of their home)?

Thanks,

-Smac

[Mark Beesley]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

But might there be a difference between "moral panic" instances associated with "child abductions" and "satanic ritual abuse" and more modern claims about child sex trafficking (which, per "Jimmy Rex" (I believe), commonly manifests in exploiting kids without actually kidnapping them or moving them out of their home)?

Thanks,

-Smac

There might be. But these “more modern” claims do not describe anything new. The first case I worked on in the early 80s dealt with a mother and father who were trafficking their under-age daughter to daddy’s friends. (Course, it turned out the “daughter” had been abducted years earlier and raised as their own.)

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

There might be. But these “more modern” claims do not describe anything new. The first case I worked on in the early 80s dealt with a mother and father who were trafficking their under-age daughter to daddy’s friends. (Course, it turned out the “daughter” had been abducted years earlier and raised as their own.)

Was she able to return to her own parents?  Do you know how she is doing?

 

And were the couple put away for a long, long time?

Edited October 9, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Lawsuit filed:

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/women-file-lawsuit-against-ballard-nonprofit-claiming-sexual-assault-battery

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2023/10/09/breaking-five-women-have-filed/

Edited October 10, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Lawsuit filed:

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/women-file-lawsuit-against-ballard-nonprofit-claiming-sexual-assault-battery

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2023/10/09/breaking-five-women-have-filed/

If these are true he's a scum bucket.

[bsjkki]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

If these are true he's a scum bucket.

It seems he is a scum bucket. 

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Lawsuit filed:

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/women-file-lawsuit-against-ballard-nonprofit-claiming-sexual-assault-battery

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2023/10/09/breaking-five-women-have-filed/

From the Tribune article:

Quote

The women allege Ballard would ask them to perform lap dances and join him for couples massages. The lawsuit alleges that Ballard would frequent Salt Lake Valley strip clubs, where he would pay for lap dances, drink alcohol and take pills, all of which was paid for with OUR funds.

Through the ruses, the suit alleges, Ballard coerced the women to engage in various sexual acts short of penetration, supposedly in order to maintain the appearance that they were a couple. The suit also alleges that Ballard would encourage the women to get a Brazilian wax on their pubic area.

Each time, it is alleged, Ballard would ask the women, “Is there anything you wouldn’t do to save a child?” He also played on their faith, the suit alleged; almost all of the women accusing Ballard are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

“Ballard began to claim that President M. Russell Ballard” — who is the acting president of the church’s Quorum of The Twelve Apostles — “had given Ballard permission to do the couples ruse, as long as there is no sexual intercourse or kissing on the lips, and had given him a special priesthood blessing as such,” the suit alleges.

Wow.

Quote

Asked previously and specifically about the allegations that Tim Ballard had suggested that President Ballard — the two are not related — condoned his sexual activities, the church referred to the earlier statement that Tim Ballard had made “unauthorized use of President Ballard’s name for Tim Ballard’s personal advantage and activity regarded as morally unacceptable.”

The suit also alleges that Janet Russon, a psychic that was on OUR’s payroll, would tell the women that they had been married to Ballard in a previous life, “so their conduct was acceptable.”

The women filed the lawsuit under pseudonyms to protect their identities.

In this post I provided a link to a 2022 article by Prof. Eugene Volokh: The Law of Pseudonymous Litigation, which provided an extensive explanation as to the factors courts use when considering a plaintiff's request to file a lawsuit under a pseudonym.  I also emailed it to the one of the attorneys who is representing the women.  I hope they found it useful.

Quote

The women’s lawsuit also claims Ballard would receive ketamine treatments and dictate prophesies where he would speak to Nephi, a prophet mentioned in the Book of Mormon, and would dictate prophesies of his future as a U.S. senator, president of the United States and, ultimately, a Latter-day Saint prophet — where he could usher in the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Oi.

Shouldn't it be "prophecies"?

Quote

Based on their “reasonable belief and inquiry,” the women’s lawyers wrote in the complaint that “upon learning of the couples ruse and how Ballard used it, the Mormon Church excommunicated Ballard.” The church has refused to comment on whether Ballard’s membership has been withdrawn — which is how the religion now refers to excommunication.

This is not really evidence, and it won't go anywhere.  But I suspect alternative forms of evidence will eventually come out.

Quote

Ballard resigned from OUR in June, telling The Tribune in July that his departure had been planned in advance so he could focus his energy on other endeavors. However, OUR said in a statement that after complaints were made about his conduct, Ballard was put on administrative leave and an investigation was launched that led to his resignation.

The lawsuit alleges that was purely for show. The suit claims Ballard received a generous severance package, but had arranged with OUR’s directors to remain the face of OUR and continue to raise money.

Whoa.  This seems to be a shot across the bow at OUR.

Quote

The suit alleges that Ballard would use his proximity to prominent friends and supporters, like President Donald Trump, conservative talk show host Glenn Beck and Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes and leaders in the LDS Church to build his reputation and bolster fundraising.

While OUR is a nonprofit, the lawsuit claims Ballard reaped $14 million for his for-profit entities.

Reyes, the suit claims, promoted Ballard’s work, participated in a rescue operation with the group, backed his potential U.S. Senate candidacy and lent his reputation to Ballard, “giving Ballard the cover of the top law enforcement officer in the State of Utah to carry out his purposes … even while consumer complaints and criminal investigations were pouring into his office regarding the improprieties of OUR and Ballard.”

A spokesman for Reyes said the office never received any consumer complaints.

Hmm.  If there were "consumer complaints," I think they will come to light.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited October 10, 2023 by smac97

[ttribe]

Copy of the lawsuit for download:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1h59g7k3vnlmkt88b8ab7/FILE_3727.pdf?rlkey=uouqwjqvs65q92gnq9vu7gdxc&dl=0

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, smac97 said:

But might there be a difference between "moral panic" instances associated with "child abductions" and "satanic ritual abuse" and more modern claims about child sex trafficking (which, per "Jimmy Rex" (I believe), commonly manifests in exploiting kids without actually kidnapping them or moving them out of their home)?

Thanks,

-Smac

I don’t think so. The panic is based loosely on a real problem but then presents the problem in a distorted form so the solutions are horribly bad. Abuse is a real problem but Satanic child abuse is not so solutions to the latter are all wrong.

Child trafficking is a real problem but the kind Tim Ballard (and QAnon) is claiming they are trying to fight are largely myths and their solutions are mostly nonsensical.

People who distort a problem for personal gain don’t actually want to find a solution.

[Tacenda]

21 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I don’t think so. The panic is based loosely on a real problem but then presents the problem in a distorted form so the solutions are horribly bad. Abuse is a real problem but Satanic child abuse is not so solutions to the latter are all wrong.

Child trafficking is a real problem but the kind Tim Ballard (and QAnon) is claiming they are trying to fight are largely myths and their solutions are mostly nonsensical.

People who distort a problem for personal gain don’t actually want to find a solution.

Here here!

A bunch of idiots really. I listened to a podcast today with a woman that volunteered with OUR, she mentioned that the OUR guys would offer a lot of money to the trafficker if they found a young girl, she said this worried her because when you're given that amount of money you will have a difficult time turning it down, so it was inevitable that a child would be sacrificed for a family that needs the money. 

Also, in the article it mentions the sacrifice of many that would have bake sales and some that gave most their money away to give to OUR and then it winds up going to Tim Ballard, sickening. 

[Calm]

47 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Also, in the article it mentions the sacrifice of many that would have bake sales and some that gave most their money away to give to OUR and then it winds up going to Tim Ballard, sickening. 

Let’s hope he stashed it mostly untouched somewhere but poorly and the money can go to the women and a reputable charity for children.

[Tacenda]

Tim Ballard is mentally ill, or plain bad for telling these women these things. I'm sad for the women that were gullible, and hope they get their street smarts going from now on, but very proud of their courage.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50747975/5-women-sue-tim-ballard-alleging-sex-assault-by-operation-underground-railroad-founder

Five women — identified in the lawsuit only by pseudonym initials until "a proper protective order is in place" — say Ballard "engaged in coerced sexual contact" in the name of rescuing trafficked children, and exploited the women's religious beliefs by telling them such behavior was OK as he believed he was to become a future president of the United States and future president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[CA Steve]

12 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

exploited the women's religious beliefs by telling them such behavior was OK as he believed he was to become a future president of the United States and future president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Some pick up lines never get old.

[MustardSeed]

11 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Some pick up lines never get old.

Oh nooooo! Lol.  The ol’ The prophet gave me a special pass…. A BYU favorite

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Oh nooooo! Lol.  The ol’ The prophet gave me a special pass…. A BYU favorite

[Calm]

From the lawsuit:

Quote

77. Ballard included his son, who had just returned from serving a mission for
the Mormon Church, to the strip clubs, without Ballard's wife's knowledge. 

 

[Calm]

From the lawsuit:

Quote

77. Ballard included his son, who had just returned from serving a mission for
the Mormon Church, to the strip clubs, without Ballard's wife's knowledge. 

Quote

101.  Ballard would also claim to his female Ruse partners that if his wife Katherine were to die, he would immediately marry them. 

102.
Ballard told one ofhis victims that when his wife would question what Ballard was doing with these women, Ballard would tell his wife that his female partners kept falling in love with him and wanted to kill Katherine so that they could be together.
 

After the Daybell case, this line is so creepy as well as the truly contemptible ploy it is.

Quote

109. At least twomarriages have broken up as a result of Tim Ballard's actions with these women.
110. Ballard offered to pay for the divorce attorney of one of his victims, and had a henchman call and threaten her husband on voice message, resulting in the policebeing called and an investigation conducted.

I wonder if the “henchman” has been identified and if so, have they admitted a connection to Tim Ballard.  I was going to say “finally, evidence that can’t be disputed”**** but unless they found him and there’s an obvious connection, Ballard can claim the woman had her henchman (this word seems out of place in a lawsuit, so of course I must use it) call and threaten the husband.

I feel bad for every woman who went on these OPS because now people are going to wonder if they were one of his victims.  This has the potential to destroy marriages even when nothing happened.

 

****because if he used a burner phone as well to send texts as I am guessing he did (can’t remember if mentioned in suit), he can claim that someone else sent those texts.  Unlike Daybell, there was no search and seizure that I am aware of and surely he dumped then long ago anyway.  Daybell may have been clueless that burner phones were meant to be disposable, but Ballard would know better.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

and allowing Ballard to continue his grooming, drinking and sexual deviancy; all on the donors' dime.

So I have read a couple of plaintiffs’ complaints due to controversies we discuss on the board and they often read more dramatic, emotional than I expected from a legal document (“henchman”, “sexual deviancy”, “boldly coming forward”, “outrageous behavior”).

For the lawyers…is this type of stage setting typical in lawsuits?  Or is it more restricted to certain lawyers who use emotional arguments as well as legal ones?

Edited October 10, 2023 by Calm

[ttribe]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

So I have read a couple of plaintiffs’ complaints due to controversies we discuss on the board and they often read more dramatic, emotional than I expected from a legal document (“henchman”, “sexual deviancy”, “boldly coming forward”, “outrageous behavior”).

For the lawyers…is this type of stage setting typical in lawsuits?  Or is it more restricted to certain lawyers who use emotional arguments as well as legal ones?

Hyperbolic language is not unusual in a complaint.

[Calm]

I had to stop reading as the first exhibit was Ballard abusing a woman he knew was a rape survivor.  So, so, so wrong.

If accurate, the stories are making me change my mind that Ballard was a relatively decent guy to begin with who got twisted because the attention and hero worship went to his head and the exposure to the seamy side of life gave him ideas.  Once started down the path, his behaviour escalated over time.  The nice guy core was convincing himself it was okay because the women really wanted it.

Instead (again if accurate) he looks more like a man who knows exactly what he is doing and that is looking for victims.  And maybe he got into trafficking work because it gave him a very legitimate excuse to be in the vile world that attracted him.    Lots of people have fantasies about dangerous and corrupt scenarios, I don’t condemn that outright.  For me the problem is when the fantasies are indulged, especially when one starts including others in twisted behaviours.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Hyperbolic language is not unusual in a complaint.

Is it useful in your opinion?  The complaints are read in court, right?  Are they also available to juries (if used instead of a judge) when deliberating?  That would make sense if so.  I have been just thinking of them as paperwork to get things going.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Calm

[ttribe]

26 minutes ago, Calm said:

I had to stop reading as the first exhibit was Ballard abusing a woman he knew was a rape survivor.  So, so, so wrong.

If accurate, the stories are making me change my mind that Ballard was a relatively decent guy to begin with that got twisted because the attention and hero worship went to his head and the exposure to the seamy side of life gave him ideas.  Once started down the path, his behaviour escalated over time.  The nice guy core was convincing himself t was okay because the women really wanted it.

Instead (again if accurate) he looks more like a man who knows exactly what he is doing and that is looking for victims.  And maybe he got into trafficking work because it gave him a very legitimate excuse to be in the vile world that attracted him.    Lots of people have fantasies about dangerous and corrupt scenarios, I don’t condemn that outright.  For me the problem is when the fantasies are indulged, especially when one starts including others in twisted behaviours.

I am almost through the first exhibit, as well. This is pretty disturbing stuff.

24 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is it useful in your opinion?  The complaints are read in court, right?  Are they also available to juries (if used instead of a judge) when deliberating?  That would make sense if so.  I have been just thinking of them as paperwork to get things going.

I'm not an attorney, just an expert witness. I don't know how useful it is as it's really just to get the case going (and in some cases, to keep it going) in the court. In my observation, the language used in front of an actual jury tends to be a bit more subdued, but there are always notable exceptions to that observation. Some attorneys just have to be showmen in the court room. Don't know if that's particularly effective, at least not in all venues. A jury in Topeka, Kansas is very different from a jury in New York, New York.