Tim Ballard

[The Nehor]

23 hours ago, smac97 said:

I think "Mormon Messiah" is a contrivance of Dave Lopez's making.  That phrase has no place at all in Latter-day Saint discourse or vocabulary.  The only "Messiah" of whom we speak is Jesus Christ.  I even have a hard time believing that this phrase could have come from Tim Ballard.  When Latter-day Saints go kooky, they tend to lay claim to the "One Mighty and Strong" thing. 

Thanks,

-Smac

Agreed, claiming to be the Messiah is whatever but using the word “Mormon” is just not going to fly.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

This is, I suppose, interesting stuff.  But I'm not sure why the religious sentiments of this particular individual are "newsworthy."  It seems sort of odd to read this stuff in a secular newspaper.  

I bet they saw her story about speaking with Brother Lund about satanic rituals being performed by church leaders somewhere online and asked for her to comment on that so they could legitimately include the satanic ritual rumor, which is laughable…80 and 90 year old men in the temple sacrificing to Satan…oh yeah.  Wonder what the cleaners think about having to scrub bloodstains out of the carpet so often.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, ksfisher said:

.  I have no real interest in LDS connected movies or other similar media.

Does the movie make it clear Ballard is LDS?

[ksfisher]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Does the movie make it clear Ballard is LDS?

I don't know, haven't seen it.

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I don't know, haven't seen it.

I would be surprised if it did.  That would limit its appeal, imo, and that was not something the producers wanted, imo.  There is nothing on wiki that suggests it.

A question to those who know more about the movie and its self promotion at the end to buy tickets for friends and employees, etc to spread the word.
 

Was there any discount given for those who bought tickets to give away or was it full price?  Was the cost of the tickets the usual price?

Edited October 6, 2023 by Calm

[Rain]

2 hours ago, ksfisher said:

The Tribune is in the business of selling papers (or digital advertising these days).  Of course they're going to run stories that cast the church, it's leaders, and it's members in a disparaging light.

 

Personally, I would never have heard of Tim Ballard if it wasn't for the discussion on this board.  I have no real interest in LDS connected movies or other similar media.

I haven't heard anyone at church talking about this.  It's nothing that's on my families radar.

I had never heard of Tim Ballard, but one of the leaders of a refugee organization I am with once briefly said something about connecting with "Underground Railroad".  I believe she may have been talking about this.  

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Does the movie make it clear Ballard is LDS?

In my mind, not at all.

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

I would be surprised if it did.  That would limit its appeal, imo, and that was not something the producers wanted, imo.  There is nothing on wiki that suggests it.

A question to those who know more about the movie and its self promotion at the end to buy tickets for friends and employees, etc to spread the word.
 

Was there any discount given for those who bought tickets to give away or was it full price?  Was the cost of the tickets the usual price?

Full price

[supersc]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

In my mind, not at all.

The movie does not hint at any religious affiliation.  It is a well done movie as truth, fiction, or some of both.  Just great story telling, tense drama, and action.  Plus it encourages each viewer to fight this evil in any way they can.

[Calm]

I have a real problem with the fact they are pushing people to buy tickets to help the cause, but as far as I am aware none of the money from th3se tickets go to actual organizations.  It certainly isn’t going to OUR.

I also have a real problem that they present the need to buy tickets as important to the cause to help save kids and yet don’t offer discounts to those who are trying to help to make it easier on them.

Instead it looks like the producers are benefitting directly financially way more than any save the children charity.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

I bet they saw her story about speaking with Brother Lund about satanic rituals being performed by church leaders somewhere online and asked for her to comment on that so they could legitimately include the satanic ritual rumor, which is laughable…80 and 90 year old men in the temple sacrificing to Satan…oh yeah.  Wonder what the cleaners think about having to scrub bloodstains out of the carpet so often.

I never get invited to the fun temple ceremonies. 😞

[The Nehor]

26 minutes ago, supersc said:

The movie does not hint at any religious affiliation.  It is a well done movie as truth, fiction, or some of both.  Just great story telling, tense drama, and action.  Plus it encourages each viewer to fight this evil in any way they can.

Disagree completely. It presents the problem wrong. It presents a bad solution. It appeals to the part of us that hopes an action sequence and shooting a bunch of bad guys will solve the problem.

The real solutions involve things like reducing or eradicating poverty and providing safe havens for kids (and adults) fleeing trafficking. It involves a lot of money, time, and effort spent to try to help these kids escape the hurts they have endured and build new lives.

The movie didn’t show the true horror of what is going on. It presented heartrending scenes of hope and then a white guy with a gun shows up and all is well. It doesn’t dig into the horrible reality that many of those abused won’t recover and most will receive no real help to do so. It doesn’t show the anguish and pain that dominates their lives and often leads to horrible decisions.

It is sanitized to make the audience feel good and to lead them to think there are simple easy common-sense solutions that if we just follow we can stop the badness. It is a flattering lie.

[bsjkki]

https://www.theblaze.com/news/blaze-news-investigates-what-really-happened-with-tim-ballard-and-operation-underground-railroad

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Disagree completely. It presents the problem wrong. It presents a bad solution. It appeals to the part of us that hopes an action sequence and shooting a bunch of bad guys will solve the problem.

The real solutions involve things like reducing or eradicating poverty and providing safe havens for kids (and adults) fleeing trafficking. It involves a lot of money, time, and effort spent to try to help these kids escape the hurts they have endured and build new lives.

The movie didn’t show the true horror of what is going on. It presented heartrending scenes of hope and then a white guy with a gun shows up and all is well. It doesn’t dig into the horrible reality that many of those abused won’t recover and most will receive no real help to do so. It doesn’t show the anguish and pain that dominates their lives and often leads to horrible decisions.

It is sanitized to make the audience feel good and to lead them to think there are simple easy common-sense solutions that if we just follow we can stop the badness. It is a flattering lie.

I agree, and years ago they attempted another money making scheme when they put out a documentary style movie at the local theaters. I suckered right into it and gave a donation plus thought I might like to volunteer, my neighbor at the time actually got very involved and volunteered. 

I think OUR can hopefully rise out of this, they sure better. 

 

[supersc]

19 hours ago, bsjkki said:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/blaze-news-investigates-what-really-happened-with-tim-ballard-and-operation-underground-railroad

Pretty damning article, for sure.

[MustardSeed]

19 hours ago, bsjkki said:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/blaze-news-investigates-what-really-happened-with-tim-ballard-and-operation-underground-railroad

I mean, the photo alone tells a story.  Unless this was a private photo for his real wife only, I’m thinking this guy was looking for experiences beyond the so called mission itself.  

[Calm]

34 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I mean, the photo alone tells a story.  Unless this was a private photo for his real wife only, I’m thinking this guy was looking for experiences beyond the so called mission itself.  

But he didn’t take the photo!  It was the tattoo artist who did it while he was asleep so they could duplicate the fake tattoos later.  Poor misunderstood man.  (He does look asleep, but the choice of tattoos says a lot imo).

He hasn’t explained why he would need vulgar tattoos in places that wouldn’t be seen by traffickers….that is a bit harder to come up with an explanation or denial (kind of hard to deny a picture) for like his denial he never played the couples’ ruse in safe houses where there would be no chance of traffickers bugging or watching the rooms. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

But he didn’t take the photo!  It was the tattoo artist who did it while he was asleep so they could duplicate the fake tattoos later.  Poor misunderstood man.  (He does look asleep, but the choice of tattoos says a lot imo).

He hasn’t explained why he would need vulgar tattoos in places that wouldn’t be seen by traffickers….that is a bit harder to come up with an explanation or denial (kind of hard to deny a picture) for like his denial he never played the couples’ ruse in safe houses where there would be no chance of traffickers bugging or watching the rooms. 

I know you’re being sarcastic 😉- that pose, with his shorts precariously placed- that’s no accident 🤮I am annoyed that he’s thinking that he can get away with the dishonesty about this pic. So gross. 

[Tacenda]

I don't see the link or in the link, any of the women's statements. I've heard of them, just haven't been able to read them. What I did hear of one statement, is that Tim wanted a woman or the women, to get a Brazilian wax service done. Now why in the heck would he need that of his "ruse" wife for heck sake?!? This makes me wonder if he liked them to be like a young girl's body.  

ETA: Found it, I guess with all the advertisements it got lost.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Tacenda

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I don't see the link or in the link, any of the women's statements. I've heard of them, just haven't been able to read them. What I did hear of one statement, is that Tim wanted a woman or the women, to get a Brazilian wax service done. Now why in the heck would he need that of his "ruse" wife for heck sake?!? This makes me wonder if he liked them to be like a young girl's body.  

TB told them to delete their texts for security according to Blaze, but iirc Beck said he saw some texts and even more important, imo, he believes the women are truly terrified.  Since Beck would originally lean towards thinking it was a setup (maybe the women got together beforehand making allegations to agree on stories) and yet he appears to be fully accepting of the allegations now after talking to the women and seeing the evidence they had, that is strong evidence, if still hearsay, for me.  Especially since it goes against Beck’s own interest due to his close connection with TB.

I still haven’t seen anything from TB that explains the silent partner label for Elder Ballard.  TB seems to be avoiding talking about things he doesn’t have answers for.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

I can see why many don't believe or don't want to believe any of the allegations. It's because it's so devastating and the fall out that is already happening. First, Tim's wife and children, second, the women that were abused, third, the problems in how OUR went about the raids and how it may have created children being trafficked. Not in any order of significance, all are so bad. And if true as well, Tim's loss of membership in the church and his reputation will forever be changed, and not in a good way. 

Why do humans have these weaknesses??? But in this case, it causing harm upon others, not just himself. 

[Rain]

10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I can see why many don't believe or don't want to believe any of the allegations.

Totally speculating here. Assuming it all is true it is possible that some made donations to the cause they believed in with a heart to help others. You want to know your heart and money actually went to that cause so it's hard to believe when you find out it might not have. 

10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

It's because it's so devastating and the fall out that is already happening. First, Tim's wife and children, second, the women that were abused, third, the problems in how OUR went about the raids and how it may have created children being trafficked. Not in any order of significance, all are so bad. And if true as well, Tim's loss of membership in the church and his reputation will forever be changed, and not in a good way. 

Why do humans have these weaknesses??? But in this case, it causing harm upon others, not just himself. 

 

[MustardSeed]

A

1 hour ago, Rain said:

12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I can see why many don't believe or don't want to believe any of the allegations.

Totally speculating here. Assuming it all is true it is possible that some made donations to the cause they believed in with a heart to help others. You want to know your heart and money actually went to that cause so it's hard to believe when you find out it might not have. 

Also, I “think” that a lot of anti maskers (highly emotional and political) attached to child trafficking during COVID for whatever reason? I don’t understand the link.  Anyway there was a trend in my area.  Anyway- there is a lot of importance around being “right” and if he is proven guilty, people risk losing face.  That’s a rilly big dill. 

[smac97]

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I can see why many don't believe or don't want to believe any of the allegations.

I have a theory why: Too many of us are letting our sociopolitical "identity" predominate over others, including our "identity" as disciples of Jesus Christ and members of His Church.  If sociopolitical orthodoxy is the fountainhead, the ultimate source of our worldview, then it comes to have far more weight and meaning and authority than it ought to have.  And if that orthodoxy is tethered to this or that individual (e.g., Tim Ballard) or group (e.g., this or that political party), then the failings of that individual or group, when they become manifest, can be quite destructive.  This is, I think, an example of why we are exhorted to not put our trust in the "arm of flesh." 

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

It's because it's so devastating and the fall out that is already happening. First, Tim's wife and children, second,

I hope they are given both privacy and respect.

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

the women that were abused,

Allegedly.  The evidence for this is pretty scant so far.

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

third, the problems in how OUR went about the raids and how it may have created children being trafficked.

I think we do need to evaluate this.

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Not in any order of significance, all are so bad. And if true as well, Tim's loss of membership in the church and his reputation will forever be changed, and not in a good way. 

Tim can repent and be rebaptized.  So there's that.  As for his "reputation," that is in the hands of an increasingly divided and fractious general public.

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Why do humans have these weaknesses??? But in this case, it causing harm upon others, not just himself. 

Nothing new here, really.  Did power corrupt?  Did the love of money come to have undue influence on motives and actions?  Was the Law of Chastity obeyed?  Are gossip and backbiting destructive?  These temptations and failures have manifested themselves since time out of mind.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited October 8, 2023 by smac97

[smac97]

16 hours ago, Calm said:

TB told them to delete their texts for security according to Blaze, but iirc Beck said he saw some texts and even more important, imo, he believes the women are truly terrified.  Since Beck would originally lean towards thinking it was a setup (maybe the women got together beforehand making allegations to agree on stories) and yet he appears to be fully accepting of the allegations now after talking to the women and seeing the evidence they had, that is strong evidence, if still hearsay, for me.  Especially since it goes against Beck’s own interest due to his close connection with TB.

I still haven’t seen anything from TB that explains the silent partner label for Elder Ballard.  TB seems to be avoiding talking about things he doesn’t have answers for.

Beck's about-face has indeed been interesting.  But he's up to his neck in sociopolitical debates, culture wars, etc.  I'm not really inclined to take his word for it.  I want to evaluate the evidence.

Thanks,

-Smac