Tim Ballard

[smac97]

34 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Maybe it's been mentioned, but through the grapevine, Tim has been ex'd. If true, how can this be? 

Well, the church "membership council" process is typically preceded by informal (and, obviously, confidential) communications between the individual and his local leader(s).  However, once the decision is made that a membership council is needed, that process can be quite fast.  A few weeks' notice and then the council is held.

I have participated in some dozens of such councils, every one of which involved the individual not disputing the substantive claim of misconduct (in fact, most of the time the individual has freely confessed it).  As a result, the council does not need to spend much time on "evidence" or argument.  Here, we don't know whether Tim has lost his membership, or if he did, on what grounds, and whether or not he disputed those grounds.  

I sure am feeling sorry for his family.

Thanks,

-Smac

[bluebell]

10 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I sure am feeling sorry for his family.

Thanks,

-Smac

I was thinking about this the other day.  His wife and kids must be suffering a ton, plus extended family.  The truth in all of this is probably somewhere in the middle of all the accusations and defenses (that seems to be how it usually ends up) and we likely won't ever know it.  Regardless of any of it though, the collateral damage is heartbreaking.

[Duncan]

It seemed to me Bishop Waddell had Tim Ballard and others in mind when he talked about Heroes and worshipping, it's easy to get caught up in personalities and politics and whatnot

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, Duncan said:

It seemed to me Bishop Waddell had Tim Ballard and others in mind when he talked about Heroes and worshipping, it's easy to get caught up in personalities and politics and whatnot

That was one public figure that came to my mind when he said that.

[smac97]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

It seemed to me Bishop Waddell had Tim Ballard and others in mind when he talked about Heroes and worshipping, it's easy to get caught up in personalities and politics and whatnot

One of Pres. Benson's "fourteen fundamentals in following the prophet" is "{t}he living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet."  I have long been grateful that the Latter-day Saints, broadly speaking, are not really into the "cult of celebrity" mindset (and we should not be).  We do seem to prize and venerate Joseph Smith in a singular sense, largely because we view him as being a dispensation head like Moses or Abraham.  But he's long dead.  In my lifetime I have recollections of Presidents Kimball and Benson during my childhood, virtually no recollections of Pres. Hunter (I was on my mission for the entirety of his brief tenure as president of the Church), and in my adulthood I've experienced Presidents Hinckley, Monson and now Nelson.

In other words, there have only been two transitions that have had a potential effect on my outlook on the prophet (President Hinckley to President Monson, and President Monson to President Nelson).  In each instance I've contemplated and appreciated the efforts and contributions of these men, then raised my arm to the square and sustained their successor.  That's it.  Arm to the square.  When Pres. Nelson passes on, I will remember him warmly, look forward to meeting him on the Other Side, and raise my arm to sustain the next Prophet, Seer and Revelator.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

It seemed to me Bishop Waddell had Tim Ballard and others in mind when he talked about Heroes and worshipping, it's easy to get caught up in personalities and politics and whatnot

Does that include LDS GAs as well?

[Teancum]

58 minutes ago, smac97 said:

One of Pres. Benson's "fourteen fundamentals in following the prophet" is "{t}he living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet."  I have long been grateful that the Latter-day Saints, broadly speaking, are not really into the "cult of celebrity" mindset (and we should not be). 

You have got to be kidding me.  🙄

[smac97]

9 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Quote

One of Pres. Benson's "fourteen fundamentals in following the prophet" is "{t}he living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet."  I have long been grateful that the Latter-day Saints, broadly speaking, are not really into the "cult of celebrity" mindset (and we should not be). 

You have got to be kidding me.  🙄

Well, I can only speak to my experience and observations.  In the circles I observe or travel/interact with, most of the Latter-day Saints have their heads screwed on pretty straight.  Moreover, I have some acquaintances with folks who have first-hand experience with the General Authorities, which acquaintances tell me that the Brethren are very aware of the risks and pitfalls inherent in any one of them developing a "cult of personality," and that they work hard to mitigate and avoid such things.

Don't get me wrong, some GAs are more "popular" as speakers than others, but overall I think we're doing a pretty good job of tamping down on the "cult of celebrity/personality" thing.

Thanks,

-Smac

[MustardSeed]

12 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Well, I can only speak to my experience and observations.  In the circles I observe or travel/interact with, most of the Latter-day Saints have their heads screwed on pretty straight.  Moreover, I have some acquaintances with folks who have first-hand experience with the General Authorities, which acquaintances tell me that the Brethren are very aware of the risks and pitfalls inherent in any one of them developing a "cult of personality," and that they work hard to mitigate and avoid such things.

Don't get me wrong, some GAs are more "popular" as speakers than others, but overall I think we're doing a pretty good job of tamping down on the "cult of celebrity/personality" thing.

Thanks,

-Smac

I hope so.  They are men after all. 

[Duncan]

41 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Does that include LDS GAs as well?

I think so! Some people go far too far with some of the Brethren past or present, i.e. if Pres. Benson or Elder McConkie etc. didn't say it or believed it then it's false

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

Does that include LDS GAs as well?

Sure sounded like it to me.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Don't get me wrong, some GAs are more "popular" as speakers than others, but overall I think we're doing a pretty good job of tamping down on the "cult of celebrity/personality" thing.

 

I think I will ask my niece who goes to BYU if she has noticed it (though she just arrived this semester from Singapore) what it is like on campus.  I know I felt like it was quite strong when I was a student on campus, though not in my home ward in California (mid to late 70s).  But that might be because I have always been annoyed with celebrity status stuff even as a teen, so I may have overinflated the amount as any was too much for me (and my first roommate joined the Church because of Donny Osmond too…that was painful).  My grandmother was one of the worst though…maybe that was why I developed a dislike.  We didn’t get to watch home movies of us, but we got to watch one of the Osmonds attending her old ward.  If Grandpa had been living, it would have been pictures of family from wall to wall.  All my other relatives are much more like me, especially my mother.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Calm

[morgan.deane]

7 hours ago, CA Steve said:

I think it is ironic how people join or form "secret combinations" to fight "secret combinations. Qanon, Proud Boys, Oath Keepers.

That is an insightful point. Becoming what you fear or hate was discussed as a feature of The Paranoid Style of American Politics by Richard Hofstader:  https://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/

Edited October 1, 2023 by morgan.deane

[Tacenda]

Watching this now, they mention that Tim Ballard was connected to Preparing a People, not sure how. So he's been involved with that situation. Maybe that connects to having the psychic to track down the children by speaking to Nephi. And I've read that anyone can read the 10,000 pages of transcript from the investigation, either out now, or coming soon and that this was his way of finding children, which is bizarre if he totally relied on that for the most part. Lauren mentions in the youtube that it's sounding a bit like the Daybell's but I would never put him near as evil as them. They also mention he's friends or was, with Jason Mow as well, and they mention that some people like this have a messiah complex, in her opinion.  

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Tacenda

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Watching this now, they mention that Tim Ballard was connected to Preparing a People, not sure how.  So he's been involved with that situation.  Maybe that connects to having the psychic to track down the children by speaking to Nephi.

I'll wait until there is evidence of this before I give it much attention, as otherwise it's just an unsubstantiated attempt at guilt by association.

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

There are screenshots being circulated indicating that Tim Ballard has had his records removed (his wife is showing as head of household). This does seem to come from the system only Bishops and other church leaders have access to.

This was probably stupid. I don’t know how internal tracking works but I suspect it wouldn’t be hard to find people who pulled a search. The problem might be that more than one Bishop or State President might have looked to see out of curiosity and they won’t know which of them pulled a screenshot. Then again Church IT is weird and they may not be able to track this at all.

It could also be fake.

[ttribe]

32 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

There are screenshots being circulated indicating that Tim Ballard has had his records removed (his wife is showing as head of household). This does seem to come from the system only Bishops and other church leaders have access to.

This was probably stupid. I don’t know how internal tracking works but I suspect it wouldn’t be hard to find people who pulled a search. The problem might be that more than one Bishop or State President might have looked to see out of curiosity and they won’t know which of them pulled a screenshot. Then again Church IT is weird and they may not be able to track this at all.

It could also be fake.

My impression from being in various clerk positions way back in the day is that the Church tended to do just enough on the IT front, and nothing more. I'd be somewhat surprised if anyone could figure out who looked this up, but it has been quite a while since I had access to those kinds of records.

[The Nehor]

31 minutes ago, ttribe said:

My impression from being in various clerk positions way back in the day is that the Church tended to do just enough on the IT front, and nothing more. I'd be somewhat surprised if anyone could figure out who looked this up, but it has been quite a while since I had access to those kinds of records.

This is a separate system. There is a leadership only database that (at the ward level) only the Bishop can access. I know the Stake President can access it. Maybe their counselors? I don’t know. It is more protected and has more sensitive information so might have better tracking. Generally leaders and clerks can only access information in their ward or stake. That system gives you worldwide information.

[CMZ]

One general authority yesterday said that having such a calling is only temporary and is not the most important part of his identity. Of course we already knew that, but just pointing out that it was stated again.

[CA Steve]

In response to a request from KSL yesterday asking for comments about his church standing, Ballard's wife issued the following statement.

Quote

Katherine Ballard, Tim Ballard’s wife, said they are “in touch” with their ecclesiastical leaders.

In the words of Katherine Ballard’s statement, the conversations are “strictly confidential and extremely personal.” She adds that they are “complying fully” and remain committed to their family and faith.

See here.

Not the response I would expect from someone who wasn't the subject of church discipline.

I really could care less if what we know to date is legally actionable, under no circumstances would I contribute to anything in which Ballard was involved nor would I vote for him for any office, had I that option.

[MustardSeed]

38 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

under no circumstances would I contribute to anything in which Ballard was involved nor would I vote for him for any office, had I that option

Yes- We don’t need a court process to determine that for ourselves for sure.  I make those kind of decisions every day. 

[Teancum]

On 10/1/2023 at 4:53 PM, smac97 said:

Well, I can only speak to my experience and observations.  In the circles I observe or travel/interact with, most of the Latter-day Saints have their heads screwed on pretty straight.  Moreover, I have some acquaintances with folks who have first-hand experience with the General Authorities, which acquaintances tell me that the Brethren are very aware of the risks and pitfalls inherent in any one of them developing a "cult of personality," and that they work hard to mitigate and avoid such things.

Don't get me wrong, some GAs are more "popular" as speakers than others, but overall I think we're doing a pretty good job of tamping down on the "cult of celebrity/personality" thing.

Thanks,

-Smac

GAs are like rock stars to active members.  And the the protocols surrounding what is proper when a high ranking authority enters the room as well as the constant emphasis of follow the brethren elevates them to the level of a personality quote.  Heck the talk by ETB does that for the living prophet.  A talk that when given brought sore displeasure from the sitting prophet.

[Teancum]

On 10/1/2023 at 5:07 PM, Duncan said:

I think so! Some people go far too far with some of the Brethren past or present, i.e. if Pres. Benson or Elder McConkie etc. didn't say it or believed it then it's false

I have a lot of right wing LDS friends who quote Benson for political purposes and wind that into their religion. They equate what he said especially when an apostle, almost on par with canon.

[Teancum]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:22 PM, Calm said:

Sure sounded like it to me.

Then there are a bunch of Latter-day Saints that need to change their approach.  And it should start at the top.

[Duncan]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:53 PM, Calm said:

Bug their house.

Did Greg Matson say what the Church said in his exclusive knowledge about a new release that he somehow knew about? My sense is they didn't release anything, he knows nothing and I wonder what his followers think now?