Tim Ballard

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

A new wrinkle in the Tim Ballard story. If Greg Matson’s information is correct, it appears the sex abuse allegations stem from unexpected and upsetting occurrences that took place while Ballard and certain female assistants were “role playing” before real child sex traffickers; i. e. they doing dirty, seedy things in order to convince the real traffickers that Tim and his female assistants were themselves “legit” child sex traffickers. Matson also says things will get much clearer next week after the church releases an official statement on the matter.

Personally, I’m thinking it may be that successfully deceiving child sex traffickers necessarily involves some very dirty and unpleasant business. Could it be that Tim got carried away and unnecessarily crossed moral ‘lines in the sand’ during the some of the role playing? It appears likely we’re soon going to find out…

Or that Tim has a messiah complex and coerced women into these behaviors because he saw them as his due while telling himself and other they were necessary as a rationalization.

When you have a horrible model for fighting human trafficking you end up doing horrible things? How surprising.

[The Nehor]

21 hours ago, Calm said:

“The world has been against Washington, Lincoln, JFK JR, Martin Luther King, Trump and many others as their righteous behaviors have brought the worst out in the minions of Satan.”

Someone didn’t read the Stapley letter where we learn that God had to kill the three middle names in there for disturbing the divine racial order. Now they had righteous behaviors? Hmmm……

One of the best descriptions I have heard of Trump is “a bad person’s idea of what a good person is like”.

I admit I am curious as to how Washington supposedly brought out the worst in the minions of Satan.

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Agree, the only possible excuse is what I thought Tim or someone else said that having the wife be around would make it so they wouldn't be expected to go right to the sex part but plan it ahead of time with the wife okaying it after her approval. Or I'm misremembering what was said possibly. 

I would like to hear from the professionals, law enforcement who specialize in this, what their approaches are and if this is actually required or not.

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Agree, the only possible excuse is what I thought Tim or someone else said that having the wife be around would make it so they wouldn't be expected to go right to the sex part but plan it ahead of time with the wife okaying it after her approval. Or I'm misremembering what was said possibly. 

They don’t need to act all lovely dovey to be husband and wife, why not just fight instead about how horrible their sex life is that they have to resort to extremes to get him/her interested?

[Smiley McGee]

9 hours ago, ksfisher said:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50736388/investigative-reports-question-whether-ex-operation-underground-railroad-ceo-misled-donors

From the article: “An email included in the investigative documents from Operation Underground Railroad domestic coordinator Carlos Rodriguez sent to Ballard and other organization leaders on Oct. 8, 2020, addresses several alleged discrepancies with a videotaped interview Ballard gave.

"This video has many problems: Tim talks about every time he comes home from an operation. Does he run operations right now. This can be attacked," Rodriguez wrote. "I don't believe this to be true statement. There are times when Tim said we are working, we solve it. WE don't do the actual work."

“The documents also include editing notes for the Operation Underground Railroad documentary film "Triple Take," sent by president of operations Jonathan Lines in April 2020. The film documents the group's 2014 rescue in Colombia.

“Lines mentions several edits of videos of Navy SEALs training with firearms, saying, "That cannot be part of our messaging. We do not carry or shoot weapons. We can't even train our partners in firearms," according to the investigative documents.”

And: “The notes also downplay the role of Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes in the film.

"Sean Reyes sure gets a lot screen time for only showing up to play a bodyguard for a day."

 

Tim and OUR poked the bear…

[SeekingUnderstanding]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

I would like to hear from the professionals, law enforcement who specialize in this, what their approaches are and if this is actually required or not.

If, for some bizarre reason it was required, it’s something that could be disclosed and talked about well in advance. Put in the job description kind of thing.

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

If, for some bizarre reason it was required, it’s something that could be disclosed and talked about well in advance. Put in the job description kind of thing.

Yes.

I would want to also hear about a safe word that lets the other know they need to back off some, they are crossing lines too…with the guarantee there would be no pushing to do more.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Calm

[Duncan]

I'd be interested to know how does Greg Matson know that the Church will release a new statement next week? he isn't anyone to tell that information to-i.e he doesn't work for any news organization, isn't involved in this or any legal authority.

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I'd be interested to know how does Greg Matson know that the Church will release a new statement next week? he isn't anyone to tell that information to-i.e he doesn't work for any news organization, isn't involved in this or any legal authority.

I guessed it would be about a week before another statement would show up to clarify based on the past, maybe he is guessing too.

He may have a personal friend in PR or leadership who told him, but if so bet they are getting scolded now as it sets up expectations.

Or he just said it in a calculated move.  If they issue a statement next week, Greg Matson looks like he has an inside source and people may trust he knows something when he doesn’t.  More listen to him as someone who knows what they are talking about.  If there is no statement, he just says minds were changed by the evolving situation, not really a big hit to his credibility.

[Rain]

21 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I listened to this as well, I guess this stuff is addicting because I also listened to a talk radio show at 5:00 with Tim's wife and she's standing by him. And doesn't believe anything happened beyond what was needed for it to appear as if he had a wife. And she mentioned that he had to play the part and how dark everything was. And he had to do what he had to in order to catch these traffickers and rescue the children. But sadly, I think more were brought in to it. Especially those that are desperate for all that money that could sustain them for a year possibly. That was talked about in this RFM interview. 

Tim's wife also mentioned that he is quitting these raids and will spend more time with family, plus that he'd probably get identified with all the notoriety he has now.

 

 

I have no idea if this is the same guy or not, but some years ago I remember either watching a news show or reading an article about a guy who had been going under cover to stop sex trafficking in other countries.  I thought "why are you being interviewed so openly? Don't you know about google and the internet?"

If that had been the guy's last trip I might have understood it, but he was already planning another trip. Now I'm wondering if it was Tim.

 

21 hours ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/rod-arquette-show-20686511/

 

[Tacenda]

Not sure if this is the same guy that RFM interviewed or not:

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Tacenda

[teddyaware]

A new video from Tim Ballard announcing that in the coming days there are going to be videos of women testifying that they participated with Ballard in “couples ruses” that proved to be a successful tactic in helping to rescue many trafficked children. If these video taped testimonies are indeed published they are likely going to, at very least, partially mute the accusations by the other anonymous women who are claiming that Ballard used the “couples ruses” as a pretext to sexually abuse them

https://fb.watch/ngAD3dgRtg/

Edited September 25, 2023 by teddyaware

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

A new video from Tim Ballard announcing that in the coming days there are going to be videos of women testifying that they participated with Ballard in “couples ruses” that proved to be a successful tactic in helping to rescue many trafficked children. If these video taped testimonies are indeed published they are likely going to, at very least, partially mute the accusations by the other anonymous women who are claiming that Ballard used the “couples ruses” as a pretext to sexually abuse them

https://fb.watch/ngAD3dgRtg/

Well, seven women said he was a creep so we are gong to show videos of three women insisting he was a creep for a good cause. That’ll show them!

[JustAnAustralian]

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

testifying that they participated with Ballard in “couples ruses”

But what level did these ruses go to? Did Tim say they were necessary? Would the operations have worked without them?

[CA Steve]

I must not have a criminal mind, but how in the world does bringing along a wife/girlfriend, pretend or otherwise, improve their chances to catch the bad guys?

"Hey look, they're sleeping together, so they really must be interested in buying kids for nefarious purposes!"

Story makes no sense.

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

I must not have a criminal mind, but how in the world does bringing along a wife/girlfriend, pretend or otherwise, improve their chances to catch the bad guys?

"Hey look, they're sleeping together, so they really must be interested in buying kids for nefarious purposes!"

Story makes no sense.

Precisely. It might make more sense for the pretend wife to be a long to stage several petty arguments with and to pretend to be having an affair with the actual wife. 

[CA Steve]

55 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Precisely. It might make more sense for the pretend wife to be a long to stage several petty arguments with and to pretend to be having an affair with the actual wife. 

Bringing volunteer women along makes no sense whatsoever. It adds multiple layers of complexity to an already dangerous mission without increasing the chances for success.

Where it does make sense is if one is creating a carefully fabricated narrative with the intent of raising money and profiles.

It isn't just the accusations of immorality that make Ballard look slimy, it's the entire situation.

[rodheadlee]

On 9/23/2023 at 3:27 PM, Calm said:

They don’t need to act all lovely dovey to be husband and wife, why not just fight instead about how horrible their sex life is that they have to resort to extremes to get him/her interested?

In all of the novels I have read on the subject or with the subject included,  the women's job is to keep the girls Inline and groomed. It's all about the product. 

FYI some authors are former law enforcement or military. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by rodheadlee

[smac97]

22 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Not sure if this is the same guy that RFM interviewed or not:

 

Here's the automated transcript (I am bolding the parts that I think are most interesting) :

Quote

 

 0:00 - what's up guys this is Jimmy Rex and this is a special episode of the Jimmy Rex show

 0:05 - this is an episode I wasn't planning on doing it's Friday afternoon I'm sitting here and I've turned

 0:11 - down multiple requests this week several requests for some pretty big podcasts to talk about everything going on with our and Tim Ballard and vice and Sean Reyes and all the other Hot Topics

 0:22 - here in Utah and the only reason I've decided to make this podcast is because there's a lot

 0:28 - of misinformation there's a lot of things being said and ultimately the reason why I decided to do this is because I saw an interview yesterday that Tim or a post that Tim put out and his level of

 0:39 - denial and narcissism around this whole thing is kind of annoying and so I thought it's time that I actually talk a little bit more about what's going on um first off give a little bit of background uh

 0:49 - in 2000 I think 15 I first or 16 whatever it was I've started working with operation Underground

 0:57 - Railroad I was introduced to Paul Hutchinson met him at an event he was speaking at about an OP that they had done the one in Colombia and went to a fundraiser thrown at Scott Keller's house went

 1:11 - with a couple friends of mine Sean Whalen Travis Prince and we uh fell in love with the cause

 1:17 - fell in love with what was going on and decided that we wanted to do something about it and so I started um building a relationship with Paul uh started going and doing some undercover fighting

 1:29 - type training Krav Maga training uh with Joe gleed who was training all the our operatives at that time and about six months later I had a chance go on my first op the first time I went with the

 1:39 - group was 280. uh the op had been compromised or for whatever reason wasn't happening so they went

 1:46 - to the charity where guess no uh ran that charity uh the orphanage and that was where garty had been

 1:53 - kidnapped from and long story short I was there when one of the men I can't remember which one he found out he was supposed to be adopting these two kids that were siblings and found out there was

 2:01 - more siblings and ended up adopting I was actually a really beautiful moment and Tim was hugging his

 2:07 - soon-to-be kids that he was adopting just a really beautiful moment fell in love with everything that was going on my next time I had an opportunity to work with them was in Cancun and uh we did

 2:17 - a sting down there Paul and uh I believe it was Tim we're running front there had a couple ex-fbi

 2:25 - guys former cop guys as well I was kind of just one of the guys in the background I speak Spanish went on a Mormon mission to Monterey Mexico so it became a pretty good asset to help the group

 2:35 - and we did that one from there Paul invited me to go be part of the team that would go in and find

 2:43 - the traffickers on a couple of other Ops one of which was the Cabo San lucasop we'll get back to

 2:49 - that that was in the vice article um I was on that up and uh had the chance to see firsthand kind of

 2:57 - how everything worked I went to the Dominican Republic I had a chance to do an op in Ecuador um in all I think of Mexico City and all I think I went 12 different times undercover one time or

 3:08 - another for a trip um I've you know been done the math I think there was over 30 traffickers quote

 3:15 - unquote that we um I was part of a sting that they got arrested and over 100 kids that were rescued

 3:21 - that being said there's a lot of things that have always kind of haunted me about all this and I

 3:26 - feel like now would be a good time to talk about it first off with what's going on with our well

 3:32 - so many details here I don't know where to start um with what's been happening right now first off

 3:39 - um one of the things I loved about Tim is how much passion he had from day one I saw that passion uh Tim gave me a lot of opportunities and changed my life forever so I've always been very

 3:48 - grateful for Tim I got the chance to go to click funnels when they showed operation Toussaint for

 3:55 - the first time with the director of the movie and Russell Brunson I got to go on the stage I was a dream come true for me to be a part of that I got to go meet Tony Robbins probably half

 4:05 - a dozen times got to sit VIP Tony himself walked us across the hot coals at his upw event in Los

 4:12 - Angeles because we were part of the group working directly with Tony I was um there with Paul and a couple of the other operators I also had the chance to go work with the Pittsburgh Steelers

 4:20 - with Sean Reyes Tim Ballard Tim's son and Paul we went out there spent you know I think it was a day

 4:26 - or maybe two days with uh their coach Mike Tomlin and got this opportunity of a lifetime to be there

 4:31 - and just had a really beautiful experience with our the Ops themselves there's a lot to go into

 4:39 - there but as far as my experience with who you are it was beautiful I threw a couple events for them I threw a couple black Thai gals one of which I'm going to talk about coming up here in a little bit

 4:48 - um we partnered with Rudy gobert from The Jazz I think three years in a row raised over 150 000

 4:54 - Sean was our Auctioneer Reyes Tim uh and his wife came to those Paul you know filled it up with a

 5:02 - lot of his wealthy friends I met a lot of wealthy men that's where I met Dave Bateman for the first time um came to that event um who ended up forming Entrada over a billion dollar company um and just

 5:14 - had the opportunity to meet a lot of cool people I was meeting a lot of incredible individuals through the network of our and through the network of of Paul and uh and so I've forever been

 5:24 - grateful for that opportunity I know it was called of God I know it was part of my path to do that

 5:30 - um and I want to kind of talk about some of the things that are happening today but also kind of how like why I have this Insider information I just know all the characters in the story and I've

 5:39 - talked to them personally since all this has been going down and the thing that made me mad about Tim recently um is I feel like I'm kind of duped um I feel like I got duped I feel like I never

 5:51 - thought uh Tim would do the things that have come out and the things that haven't come out yet that

 5:56 - are going to come out um I'll just cut through the suspense for you uh it's a lot worse than the

 6:02 - article said Tim wasn't just sleeping in the same bed and showering with these women he was full on having Affairs I know the names of multiple people that he had the affairs with broke up families and

 6:12 - that's going to come out and the thing that I can't figure out is he knows this is going to come out like he knows these stories are going to break he knows that he's dead in the water

 6:21 - the church does not throw people under the bus by the way the church is smart

 6:26 - um if you think of the church as like an organization with self-preservation it's a lot easier to understand a lot of the things that they do Tim did have a very close relationship with

 6:34 - Emerson Russell Ballard very obvious they have pictures of them traveling and doing other things um he also was a silent partner according to Tim in this whole thing that he was trying to do the

 6:45 - Whiteboard video and all that stuff um everybody's seen that there's a silent partner with one of

 6:52 - these in in Paul should probably just come out and talk about this stuff but he's talked about on the record before and a long story short at that meeting Tim had mentioned that his silent partner

 7:01 - was Emerson Ballard the church is smart enough to know this they don't want once they found out that

 7:06 - Tim was having Affairs and he was using Emerson Ballard's name saying that he basically okayed it to fool these women that were volunteering for our and that's why he was essentially betrayed

 7:20 - so badly that here's why the church publicly made sure that everybody knew that the church didn't endorse Tim or our because it's that bad Church never does that they've never done that

 7:29 - for somebody that was an active member unless they needed to get ahead of the story and so when you

 7:36 - think about that that way um you know it's not the church's fault I was duped by Tim too um we wanted

 7:42 - to rescue children that's what the mission was that's what everything was supposed to be about yet over and over I saw firsthand Tim's ego and Paul's ego if I'm being honest and he's one of my

 7:54 - close friends and so um you know I'm going to be honest here about a couple things though but him

 7:59 - and Tim their egos absolutely destroyed at that time what was going on with our and I'll explain

 8:06 - um so long story short you saw the vice article this week about the psychic you

 8:12 - saw the vice article about when Paul touched the breast of an underage girl which by the

 8:17 - way she's not underage she was proven to be over 18 that part of the story didn't come out till

 8:22 - later for whatever reason so that they could add on to the article instead of saying it up front because I think it does matter a lot I was there I was 10 feet away when it happened

 8:31 - and I'll say this um I'm not going to say too much about that because that's Paul's story to tell but at the end of the day three things crossed my mind when that happened

 8:40 - um and by the way you have to understand that there was bad guys undercover and there was evil dudes these were the most evil dudes we'd ever arrested we'd ever worked with we'd ever

 8:48 - met that particular op we were dealing with three different groups of traffickers it was in Cabo

 8:54 - and it was right downtown if you've ever been to Cabo it's not that big of a downtown and two of the traffickers when they heard we were dealing with this other trafficker by the way I hate

 9:02 - that the story like publicly says where we were that puts Our Lives I feel like a little bit in danger because I don't know um I mean these we've got people arrested traffickers really bad people

 9:10 - and so I'm not sure why that part of the story gets told publicly but it's out there so whatever

 9:16 - um but when the trafficker that we ended up working with um found out when the other two

 9:23 - chapters found out we were working with them they said we can't work with you then because that guy runs the town and so we knew we were working with some really bad dudes so you got to understand

 9:31 - that like in that moment we're like oh [ __ ] that was the most serious this had ever gotten and they basically the way it would work is we had an undercover camera with us we had to prove that

 9:42 - they had these underage girls or else we couldn't get uh an OP set up and so we had already talked

 9:50 - to these guys and they said they had 25 girls that were underage and essentially we said we

 9:56 - have to get video footage um or else we can't do the op and so we told these guys we'll pay you to

 10:02 - show us the girls that you're trafficking that was the way that essentially it worked just so

 10:08 - we had proof that it was happening like there was already plenty of proof that they did have people they were trafficking um but what people don't understand is when you go undercover you never

 10:15 - see the girls like um you only meet them briefly like in a parking lot or a Walmart or something

 10:21 - just or at a restaurant so that you can tell that they have and we get a video of it and then the police will set up the sting and so we were trying to get proof that they had it so just get you know

 10:31 - just meet them and they say yeah come with us they took us to this strip club that was on the main drag of Cabo right downtown and we didn't even go in we're downstairs in the lobby and they brought

 10:41 - these girls down the stairs that were working at the strip club and we were kind of already like oh [ __ ] like they're probably not underage then because they're working publicly in the strip

 10:50 - club and um long story short the guy was like see look this is one of them he um told her to lift up

 10:58 - with sugar he looked at a pressure or whatever and then he like motioned to Paul like to touch them

 11:03 - Paul did um and I remember thinking at the time number one I was like we were dealing with again

 11:09 - these were some evil freaking dudes so number one I remember thinking gosh I'm glad that wasn't me that he pointed out number two I remember thinking I'm glad Paul didn't hesitate and number three I

 11:18 - remember thinking I probably wouldn't I wish that didn't happen I I'm that probably wasn't

 11:23 - a good idea that he did that um I think I even mentioned that to Paul later that being said

 11:29 - um it was tricky it's things aren't black and white multiple things can be true um and now I'm going to speak to a bigger issue that like a lot of people have talked about

 11:37 - um whether or not we were causing trafficking to happen or not or soliciting for trafficking

 11:42 - um because it looks like based on that article that we were trying to find because he says Mas Fresca the whole reason for that is like we already knew we were dealing with the

 11:49 - traffickers in Cabo we'd been this had been verified from two other groups of traffickers and so we were trying to just get video footage and so the whole conversation was around like

 11:58 - were those girls 16 were they not and we were kind of hoping so because that meant we could do an OP

 12:03 - um and rescue whoever came now also on these Ops when the women would get

 12:10 - um rescued when the girls would get rescued typically about a third of them to half of

 12:15 - them would actually be underage the rest would not and so it wasn't unusual to it's like okay

 12:20 - well even if you know they're not all underage like it's still helping them out or whatever

 12:26 - um and there were some of the Ops I will say you know to that point about three years ago I told the girl I was dating at the time that I was done doing undercover Ops and uh the reason

 12:36 - I told her this and this is the only time I ever shared that until right now is I said you know I doesn't sit right with me completely the way they're doing it I said two things are true

 12:45 - here number one is we have absolutely rescued some girls that were being trafficked um we found them we had a recorded conversation from the Mexican federalities this was the only proof I've ever had

 12:55 - that these girls were being trafficked they were begging the guys not to traffic them anymore they were but it wasn't like that they don't hold them behind cages and things like that like they lived

 13:05 - at home but they would basically call them and say you're doing this um one of the arrests we did uh it was a eighth grade school teacher and she would use her position to get these girls she'd just

 13:14 - tell them they were coming to a party they'd go to the party and next thing they knew they were being um you know raped drugged told that if they told anybody they would you know kill him or they'd

 13:23 - tell their parents what they did and and so that's how trafficking usually works it wasn't like these girls were being held against their will 24 7. and so a lot of times when people think of trafficking

 13:33 - it's just not how it's portrayed even in the sound of freedom I didn't love parts of that movie because I had to tell a bunch of people that asked me about it I'm like no that's not really

 13:40 - how it works um it does work that way sometimes but it's very rare by the way I these stats and I'm all over the place I'm not using notes I'm just trying to speak for my heart here I just feel

 13:48 - like I should share the information that I have a lot of um the stats that come out about how many

 13:54 - kids are being trafficked around the world they say like 2 million then I heard it was 8 million now I don't believe those numbers if I'm being honest I think it's much less and the reason I

 14:02 - believe that is because we went to multiple cities and never found anybody trafficking

 14:07 - kids we went to Mexico City multiple times went to several places around latinum South America and couldn't find trafficking um we just left we did we go down for three days and we were really

 14:18 - good at it the reason why we were good undercover is because we were able to speak and we're very

 14:23 - um good at just making friends with people and that's what it was all about you basically you'd usually meet somebody a street Hustler who would meet you know they would know somebody who knew

 14:31 - somebody that was trafficking kids and half the time we tried we couldn't find anybody and I

 14:36 - thought that was awesome and so I don't think the problem is Pavilion as they say I will say that's my own personal opinion they can use whatever stats they want but that's my personal opinion

 14:45 - um the other thing I had a problem with though the reason why I stopped doing it is because there were times when I felt like so one of the opposite we did I'll be honest it was the one Cancun it was

 14:53 - the one that Tim LED um uh These Guys these kids they were like 22-23 I don't think they had been

 15:01 - trafficking if they had not much and I remember you know they went out and they found these guys

 15:07 - and it took them about three days in Cancun to find anybody trafficking somebody and they finally found these kids and part of me was like well were these guys really trafficking because

 15:15 - they were young kids they were kind of idiots they were like 20 again they're like in their young 20s and I remember when they showed up to the party and they had these girls

 15:22 - and I remember thinking to myself like did these guys just go round up some girls they know or like whatever and said come to this party sleep with these Americans these rich Americans will pay you

 15:29 - or something and I never just never sat right with me um and I saw that firsthand and so when people

 15:36 - say maybe they create trafficking I'm not saying that didn't happen um I do think it was a flawed

 15:42 - method now looking back with perspective um at the time I didn't know anything I was just the guy going on the Ops and that was the way they were doing it but as I look back now um it's

 15:52 - very conflicting because on one hand I absolutely think that there was probably a few guys that went out to find girls to to bring back because they were trying to get tips from Paul or from Tim or

 16:02 - whoever and and they you know were trying to prove that they were traffickers I had to tell one kid in Ecuador I remember he was like yeah yeah we traffic girls or whatever and I remember to look

 16:12 - at the camera this kid doesn't drive a gross he was like 21 years old he's like yeah yeah and I remember he's like I'll be back in two hours I'll show you and he brings this girl back she was like

 16:21 - 16 probably and he's like yeah yeah what do you guys think and I remember I pulled him aside we're

 16:26 - in like the basement of this like Warehouse thing and I'm like dude this you this isn't who is this

 16:33 - is this your sister is this your girlfriend or what and he's kind of like what and I was like is this your girlfriend he's like yeah I was like you don't traffic this girl do you

 16:40 - and he's like yeah yeah I said dude get her out of here you don't know what the [ __ ] you're doing get her out of here you don't traffic this girl and he's like okay and that was my last stop I

 16:50 - ever did I was done after that I said I I'm not doing this anymore I was terrible undercover if I'm being honest I was good because I spoke Spanish I could translate and the the truth

 16:58 - is the reason why Paul is the one that got in trouble is because Paul was so good undercover we didn't have guns we didn't have backup the only thing we had was the fact that they never

 17:05 - knew why we were actually there if they it had any inkling that we were not undercover we would have been dead uh multiple times and the op in Cabo was the most dangerous one we ever did

 17:15 - um by far these were the most evil dudes we ever took down so I hate that it's out there that it was Cabo where this happened because um it does put some Danger on those that were there that

 17:24 - being said it is what it is we were dealing with some people in Dominican Republic they got killed

 17:29 - while we were doing the uh undercover work we went the first weekend and while you know we found this

 17:34 - guy he was a bad dude and he got killed before we even got back there I mean this dude was in some some bad stuff and so there's two things can be true at once and this is the part that I want

 17:43 - people to understand is number one is those Ops absolutely needed to stop I've had I want to call

 17:49 - it guilt but I've had this thing hanging over it where it's like part of that was kind of [ __ ]

 17:54 - um but then there's also the other part where I absolutely know We rescued girls and I know that we save their lives and so both things can be true I've always been conflicted over

 18:03 - that I've only shared it again with the girl that I was dating a couple years ago it's just been one of those things that how do you talk about that because I didn't want the work to

 18:10 - stop I wanted o you are to keep rescuing the ones that needed rescuing but I also saw the problems with the way they were doing it and I'm just trying to be very honest here

 18:18 - um so those things can both be true another thing that where two things can be true at once is I think Tim had good intent to start this I think any guy that was in the business that he was in

 18:26 - that had to look at that stuff that he did um I don't know how you come back from that I I would

 18:31 - never in a million years let somebody I love be in that business or whatever um very grateful that the entire time I was undercover we never once had to see any pictures of any girls we never

 18:40 - had to see any girls none of that was a part of it we only would see the girls when they would bring them to get verification and then at the party when they showed up where they got rescued

 18:48 - and so um I wish I knew the outcome of some of the girls that We rescued of all the rescues we ever

 18:54 - did I never got a single update I tried multiple times again updated what happened to them later and so people have criticized our for their Aftercare and all these things I have no idea

 19:04 - um I wish our was more transparent with that but I also see that they're like trafficking victims so how do you talk about that right um so I don't know what that is I do have another entire problem

 19:14 - with this entire thing and this is what I want to say about like um there's this thing energetically

 19:20 - with the universe that like when you start talking about something more it's like you're you're gonna notice it more you're going to be more aware of it and I think the very Act of talking with my I've

 19:30 - changed my opinion on this my original opinion was like we have to make sure everybody knows about trafficking this is like this evil that nobody's talking about that nobody knows about

 19:37 - and so it was like I wanted to help spread the word everybody and the more it talk gets talked

 19:43 - about though the more it becomes real to people and I think that plants the seeded for a lot of people that never would have thought about it to actually participate in it and I the numbers that

 19:53 - I've heard that it's only going up the number of children being trafficked in the last 10 years so censo Ur was founded it's not doing any better it's actually doing much worse um

 20:00 - I have no verification of these stats by the way but I did hear this from a very reliable person um and so I think that there's this level of harm that gets done by almost normalizing it

 20:11 - or talking about it all the time where and then you know you got the Qing on people that just make it they think everybody's a pedophile and that's a whole problem because then it just makes

 20:19 - the whole thing look ridiculous like it's not happening at all and so I just think that the whole thing is um I kind of wish I don't know like part of me thinks that it needs like the

 20:28 - very active sound of Freedom becoming the number one movie it's great for awareness but how many people now have the seed planted that oh my gosh you can actually go get this where they never

 20:37 - would have thought about it before and so that part is tricky and I think that that is being

 20:43 - Miss uh it's just not being counted into the fact of everything that's going on so as far as what

 20:51 - happens next um like I said with uh our when I was working with them uh Me Andy mccubbins Sean

 21:00 - Reyes Sean Whalen uh Paul Hutchinson there's a bunch of us that would go together undercover um there's a bunch of other great men Dave Lopez um all these other great guys and one by one they

 21:09 - would keep getting eliminated out and I'm like why why does why does everyone keep getting kicked out and every time I was with Tim in a private conversation I remember just thinking like this

 21:17 - dude this this job's bigger than him like it just he's he doesn't I think that's what happened I think he had a good heart about it but I think the thing was just too big for him and so I think it

 21:26 - overwhelmed him he didn't trust anybody um if you guys go back to the vice article from two years ago um Vice called me they wanted my opinion they tried to make me look stupid they said that the

 21:35 - Realtors are the ones going undercover um you know they discounted the amount of intelligence I think

 21:41 - that I have in Social settings my ability to make friends with people my ability to just be able to control situations get things done but whatever um I was just a realtor so for the record I guess

 21:51 - that's true um but the one thing they quoted me correctly I was grateful they did is you know they

 21:56 - said why'd you get kicked out of our and I said well I wanted to say it in a way like essentially what happened is Tim and Paul got in a big fight um it was over a couple things it started

 22:06 - um I'll just tell you guys how it started is Tim and Paul were at one of it's a fundraiser that

 22:12 - I threw we were sponsoring multiple organizations children need families had just launched I got to

 22:18 - help a lot of those families that were adopting people get their sponsorships it was beautiful I got to go with my ex-bishop and go to the houses of these families when they found out they were

 22:26 - getting donated twenty thousand dollars to be able to donate kids excuse me to adopt donate

 22:31 - the money to adopt the kids um had a chance to go with uh Tim and his wife and actually Janet

 22:37 - the weird psychic lady um was part of that and it's a whole nother conversation we'll get into

 22:42 - but um she was actually really nice um I didn't know she was a psychic never knew that until Paul

 22:48 - told me later but we're at this event raising money we raised 150 000 at the charity again

 22:53 - Sean Reyes was the guy auctioning everything off it was really beautiful and all of a sudden we were talking about the Nazarene fund and there had been a really beautiful story that and Andy

 23:03 - and Paul had been a part of it and they showed a picture and it was the picture was this girl they'd rescued being reunited with it reunited with her mom I mean we're all in tears 200 of

 23:12 - us at the event all of us in tears and um in the picture was Paul Andy and this little girl I think

 23:18 - I'm I just remember that Tim wasn't in it because this is what the fight was about all of a sudden the middle of the speech I'm on the stage Tim and his wife sitting front row like get up and walk

 23:27 - out and so I'm kind of like what is going on I can tell they're pissed and Paul kind of goes around

 23:33 - there and I kind of had a chance to sneak off a minute later they're yelling at each other full-on Paul and Tim are like fighting in the back of this club at the Sky Club in Salt Lake and I'm

 23:42 - like what you guys what is going on and Tim was pissed Tim's wife was like how dare you show a picture that Tim's not in and you're not giving us any credit I'm just like oh my gosh like it's not

 23:52 - about who the hell cares who gets the credit it was this big fight over it was really Petty and ridiculous and from that day forward um seemed like there was a Chisholm between them and us uh

 24:03:00 - also at that time Tim had kicked out a few other people I was really close this guy named Dutch that used to go undercover the Navy SEAL guy was awesome somehow for somebody's got removed Dave

 24:11:00 - Lopez got kicked out found out later that was for a business deal that Tim wanted to be a part of that David found and Tim felt like he was owed half of the deal because he um was the one that

 24:22:00 - connected Dave Lopez with the president of Haiti to be able to do this project crazy stuff but it was all over money and ego and it was really sad I remember me and Andy mccubbins talking about all

 24:31:00 - this all the time like it's like they were just forgetting that it was about the kids and so Paul started a new charity called children need family or excuse me um child Liberation foundation and

 24:42:00 - um I think Tim and Paul end up doing a meeting was that Paul's house and it's the Whiteboard meeting it's the famous whiteboard meeting and um anyways and at that meeting Tim announces that

 24:55:00 - like everything that you've seen on that that's true is is exactly what Tim said he basically said we're going to set up all these non-profits it's going to funnel it's going to help Tim Ballard

 25:05:00 - um build up himself and then he said we're going to use me to lead people back to the church

 25:12:00 - and he had been working with M Russell Ballard as a silent partner he announced that by name

 25:18:00 - in that meeting and Paul was pissed Paul had been excommunicated from the church he's not a hater of the church but he's definitely not a friend and Paul was just like this is not why we're

 25:27:00 - doing this this has nothing to do with the kids what are you talking about and that was the day that Paul and Tim departed ways so Paul tells us this story meanwhile all the people oh you are um

 25:38:00 - well I don't need to get to that part we did an op and Puerto Vallarta and long story short o-r was

 25:43:00 - supposed to fund the Aftercare we did the takedown we worked with the federal police in Mexico by the way the federal allies in Mexico freaking loved working with us people have questioned if we were

 25:52:00 - even wanted there needed There They begged us to come do these Ops there they said that we get more done in two days and we can get done in two years and 30 of them flew up here to give us honorary

 26:01:00 - doctorate degrees from 11 universities in Mexico they gave us Diplomat status in Mexico because they loved working with us a friend of mine Brian Zulo actually his brother-in-law got arrested in

 26:12:00 - Mexico it was two years ago not arrested it was fake arrested by these people they were shaking him down I called our connection uh I called Brian Trapnell who was helping us who was we'd worked

 26:22:00 - with in Mexico City with the top officials of of Mexico within 48 hours they were able to get this

 26:27:00 - person this American out of there and rescued it was pretty awesome and so I'm forever grateful for the Mexican federalities the people we worked with there they love us to this day we have connections

 26:36:00 - with them um anybody that says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about they loved having us and we were really good assets to help them do what they were doing and so there's a reason

 26:45:00 - that they wanted us there we were good at it they have the recordings of these girls begging not to

 26:51:00 - be trafficked like all those things absolutely um that Puerto Vallarta op we ended up doing

 26:57:00 - the rescue and our left us hanging and um it was John lines who was I think fired from our for he

 27:07:00 - was horrible by the way that guy absolutely had the biggest ego I've ever seen in my life but we don't need to go into that he hated all of us pushed us all out um when I quote advice and

 27:16:00 - I talked about my exact quote was I've never seen some I said I have a lot of respect for Tim but I've never seen somebody that's worse at keeping the the wrong people around and letting

 27:23:00 - the right people go because it was true Dave Lopez Dutch all these people Jen Dyer all these people that really cared about our kept like you know getting pushed out and all the people that

 27:34:00 - um that were Snakes in the Grass or were about their egos or the ones that he kept around and

 27:39:00 - so I quoted that article advice and Tim called me and he was hurt by that and we all got together

 27:46:00 - and you know part of what we mentioned was like I said Tim you guys left us hanging in Puerto Vallarta like he was that was John lines they were trying to um basically I think it was one of Tim's

 27:57:00 - in-laws or relatives or something was I was like a coop they were trying to get rid of Tim he can tell you about I don't know and uh they ended up pushing out all the other

 28:05:00 - people they and he goes you're right I had the wrong people around me I let the right people go

 28:10:00 - and he admitted to it he said how do we make this right and we all got together at Paul's house all of us that had basically been pushed out and Tim and Paul's wife Otto was there and

 28:21:00 - Tim essentially was speaking out of both ends of his mouth but the problem was he never owned up to kind of what Paul had heard in that whiteboard meeting and that was what still was bothering

 28:31:00 - Paul so we left there and we all thought that we were gonna maybe you know just be friendly again and I had heard from multiple people you know I would speak at an event and people were like oh

 28:38:00 - hey man just you know like Tim said some bad stuff about you to me and I never once said anything bad about Tim even a couple months ago when the sound of Freedom came out I made a post I said for the

 28:47:00 - record I never saw Tim do anything illegal or that would be against his integrity and it's

 28:52:00 - true he was a horrible decision maker I thought the job was too big for him but and that's why I was so hurt by these um what I heard came out about these women and that part of it because

 29:01:00 - I did see that part of Tim that was good and I think that he wanted this to be something good I think that again I think he pushed out all the people that would push back on

 29:09:00 - him I think all the people that held him in check were pushed away and he kept all these yes men around him I know one of the people he kept around him very closely and he's a snake

 29:18:00 - um I won't go into that but um long story short uh I think these last couple years he just had

 29:24:00 - the wrong people around he didn't have the people that cared and because they started making really poor decisions it sounds like and so these women are going to come forward unfortunately it's

 29:32:00 - going to happen if anybody that's supporting Tim is going to look stupid I promise you um I already know from all the inside sources um you'll hear it next the church already disavowed

 29:41:00 - him Tony Robbins team is going to be next Glenn Beck will be next and the the thing that sucks is we all wanted to support our we all wanted to support this organization we all wanted to support

 29:50:00 - fighting against child trafficking and both things can be true we still can and here's the worst part

 29:56:00 - of the whole thing oh you are finally over these last three months that Tim's gonna they have their [ __ ] together it looks like I talked to some of the operatives that were like totally against who

 30:04:00 - you are some of the people that were like that knew the the insides of it all and they said dude oh you are actually doing really good work now and they said the worst part about all this

 30:12:00 - is oh you are is going to get taken down or it's going to really hurt it and they're finally doing a lot of good they're finally not doing Ops the way that we used to do it they also figured out

 30:21:00 - that was not the right way to do it and so our has been doing a lot of good the last three months and

 30:26:00 - it's probably an organization we're supporting now but unfortunately it's going to be taken down when all this comes out and I mean Tim has just been leaning in so hard to you know this victim

 30:35:00 - and it's this narcissism that he has and and God bless him man but I think um once that all comes

 30:41:00 - to light I hope people will be able to see um what it is again this last interview where he was just adamantly talking about the evils coming at him and it's just like dude enough's enough

 30:51:00 - it's time to tell the truth um you know for the record I was with Paul on every opposite I went on never once saw him do anything that was inappropriate when he grew up that girl again at

 31:02:00 - the time um had she been 16 again it would have been a really bad thing um and I'm not going to

 31:11:00 - make a judgment whether he should or should have done it I'm glad he did it because in the moment the people we were working with absolutely were capable of taking our lives if he hadn't that's

 31:19:00 - all I'll say on it as far as the psychic lady goes um that was also had come to light about

 31:25:00 - the same time Paul and Tim started fighting and it was just kind of like geez that being said I

 31:30:00 - mean I don't know I believe in energies and things like that we believe in prayer I mean if she was a man and we called her a patriarch would it be looked at differently probably so I don't know

 31:39:00 - um I don't know it's obviously really weird I didn't know about the Nephi thing until this

 31:45:00 - week though that's that's really weird um but I do think that you can Channel people I don't know whatever I've never done it but I think people have uh so I hope this is I just want to get

 31:55:00 - some information out there I'm super grateful for my time at our I'm super grateful my time with the child Liberation Foundation I'm super grateful for the opportunities that Tim gave me

 32:04:00 - um is the gift of a lifetime to go on those um you know there's a part of it that again I'm happy to get this off my chest now that I always sat wrong with me

 32:13:00 - um and it is kind of like well [ __ ] what's the like if you know if we arrested a couple

 32:18:00 - guys that maybe weren't trafficking otherwise and those girls maybe weren't being trafficked

 32:24:00 - but we did rescue a lot of people that were was it worth it and I believe it was

 32:29:00 - um that being said I personally made a moral decision to quit doing it a couple years ago um and it was hard to to know what that was and so I'm glad that our is doing things the right way I

 32:41:00 - I really don't think the problems as big as people say um I think that there is a huge issue but I

 32:46:00 - think that you can get people really emotional when you say there's eight million kids being trafficked I do not know where 8 million kids are being charged we couldn't find any in half the

 32:53:00 - cities we went to and that's something I've never really talked about either and so I don't know I don't want to minimize the problem it's huge I think that because of the internet because of the

 33:02:00 - uh ability like think about it I think the most important thing is how do you protect your kids I think you have to understand that number one is most kids are trafficked from their houses and I

 33:10:00 - think if you understand what's really going on you can approach it much differently if your kid

 33:15:00 - starts acting differently if your kid starts being shy or or starts acting out something has probably

 33:21:00 - happened whether they've been abused or whether they're being trafficked you want to be able to monitor who's talking to your children you want to be able to see who's actually communicating with

 33:30:00 - them um most people there's this thing you know Andrew Tate a lot of people have been saying that

 33:37:00 - uh you know that he's being railroaded and he's being you know this whole thing is a setup as well

 33:43:00 - um the one thing that I think he's going to be in big trouble for is the boyfriend approach

 33:48:00 - of trafficking he's on the record saying that he would pretend to date his girls or date them just long enough to get them to work for him to be webcam models and that is a form of trafficking

 33:57:00 - like that is why he was arrested and um call it what you want these guys will groom kids or women

 34:05:00 - or girls or whatever they'll get them to fall in love with them get them to obey them is how pimps work too it's the same thing and then they kind of control them and so the women technically are

 34:14:00 - still free to do what they want but when they break them emotionally and and you know in a lot of other ways mentally uh it really robs them of their ability to defend themselves and so It's

 34:24:00 - Tricky man um I've interviewed Tim on my podcast on this very podcast I've interviewed Sean Reyes

 34:29:00 - on this very podcast Paul has been on this podcast uh Coco berthman I did a podcast with her before

 34:34:00 - I found out she was a fraud uh that was crazy story if you want to hear more about that there's

 34:40:00 - an entire series on the podcast now there's a podcast about it called the Coco birthman story

 34:45:00 - um you know It's Tricky you I've had Dave Lopez on this podcast you can go back and listen in these interviews but these people um you know I think everybody wanted to help I think a lot of people

 34:58:00 - donated to our because they wanted to help I think a lot of people shared about the sound of freedom because they wanted to help um that one's kind of crazy by the way like all these people going and

 35:06:00 - buying extra tickets for the sound of female is like that was the greatest marketing play of all time and I supported it because Paul's one of the executive producers on it and he's

 35:14:00 - a friend of mine but um none of that money was going to our it was owned by these independent

 35:20:00 - companies and so like when you were doing that all that money it's not going to the I think a lot of people were confused by that but I did love the movie I thought it was very well done I hated the

 35:27:00 - part with the jungle because I knew it was fake uh nobody ever did that there was other parts of it that I felt like were very sensationalized and it sounds like several other parts were made up as

 35:36:00 - well but as far as the movie goes freaking amazing movie um the caliber of the just the way that it

 35:42:00 - was done the music the the lighting everything I got a chance to go on set in Columbia for a day and watch them film down there and got to meet Jim Caviezel I've met weirder people not very many

 35:52:00 - um but I am grateful for a couple of the movies the guy's done I think he's amazing actor but this is my entire unfiltered um feelings about all this I don't really have any other

 36:03:00 - comment about it I've again had so many people reach out one thing that I will do is anytime I make a comment about something I put my name on it that's why I was the only one quoted in advice a

 36:11:00 - couple years ago by name that caused me a lot of flack with all the people at our but at the end of the day I'm not going to say anything unless I'm going to put my name on it so hopefully this

 36:19:00 - helps give some clarity um it is coming down those names are going to be released to the women that Tim full on had affairs with broke up families with and so I felt like that was

 36:28:00 - worth sharing and from a source that knows just trust me that's what's going on and so anybody's still defending him I promise you there's better things worth defending there's better people worth

 36:36:00 - defending in this situation but you can still support all you are you can still support the cause there are other child trafficking Charities out there Dave Lopez has one you can contact him

 36:45:00 - directly Tim Tebow has one those are two that I know that seem to be doing a lot of good work and I believe the Maloof brothers are uh have one that that I know they do Charities here in

 36:54:00 - Utah and golf tournaments and things like that and so if you're wanting to support the cause there are multiple ways of doing that anyways hope this is helpful much love and God bless

 

Wow.  A few thoughts:

1. I have been thinking that child trafficking might have a bit of a "Moral Panic" component to it, but I have not said anything because I lack sufficient evidence/information, so I have not wanted to minimize what might be a truly huge issue.  This fellow seems to be indicating that the problem, while no doubt very serious and needing attention, is  being overstated/overhyped a bit.

2. His comments about Tim Ballard's (alleged) sexual misconduct are troubling.  He treats these allegations as definitely true ("{Tim} was full on having affairs{,} I know the names of multiple people that he had the affairs with broke up families..."), and that confirming information/evidence is "going to come out."  He may well have been a percipient witness, or else far better situated to competently assess the credibility of these claims than we are.  

3. I am very interested in his comments about whether drawing attention to, or creating "awareness" about, child trafficking is or may be contributing to the problem rather than helping resolve/reduce it.  Specifically this observation: "{I}t was a eighth grade school teacher and she would use her position to get these girls{.}  {S}he'd just tell them they were coming to a party they'd go to the party and next thing they knew they were being {} raped{,} drugged{,} told that if they told anybody they would you know kill {them} or they'd tell their parents what they did{.} {A}nd and so that's how trafficking usually works it wasn't like these girls were being held against their will 24 7."

4. He also has some interesting comments about how OUR definitely helped some victims ("I absolutely know we rescued girls and I know that we save{d} their lives and so both things can be true..."), but also inadvertently sometimes created a market for trafficking.  His comments: "t+{T}hey were young kids they were kind of idiots they were like {} in their young 20s and I remember when they showed up to the party and they had these girls and I remember thinking to myself like '{D}id these guys just go round up some girls they know {and say} come to this party sleep with these Americans these rich Americans will pay you?' ... {This} just never sat right with me{.} ...  I saw that firsthand and so when people say maybe they create trafficking I'm not saying that didn't happen."  And here: "{P}art of me thinks that ... {the very act of Sound of Freedom} becoming the number one movie {is} great for awareness but how many people now have the seed planted that oh my gosh you can actually go get this{,} where they never would have thought about it before{,} and so that part is tricky."

5. His comments about Tim A) having ego-related issues and money issues affecting his behavior and motives, B) having a tendency to get rid of good guys and keep "yes" men around him are both interesting and troubling.

6. He strongly corroborates the "Whiteboard" narrative, namely, that Tim was using Pres. Ballard's name in some very problematic ways.

7. His comments about Janet Russon are interesting.  He says he knew nothing about her being a psychic.  

8. He also includes some very astute comments about how "trafficking" is often occurring "from their {kids'} houses," and that parents need to be aware of with whom their kids are in contact, etc.

Thoughts?

Edited September 25, 2023 by smac97

[Calm]

2 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Bringing volunteer women along makes no sense whatsoever. It adds multiple layers of complexity to an already dangerous mission without increasing the chances for success.

 

2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

In all of the novels I have read on the subject or with the subject included,  the women's job is to keep the girls Inline and groomed. It's all about the product. 

FYI some authors are former law enforcement or military. 

So there is no need for women to act like a wife, they can be business partners.

[Calm]

Quote

 30:12:00 - is oh you are is going to get taken down or it's going to really hurt it and they're finally doing a lot of good they're finally not doing Ops the way that we used to do it they also figured out

 30:21:00 - that was not the right way to do it and so our has been doing a lot of good the last three months and

 30:26:00 - it's probably an organization we're supporting now but unfortunately it's going to be taken down when all this comes out 

It sounds like they got their act together and started being more professional and less grandstanding once Ballard was gone.

[rodheadlee]

53 minutes ago, Calm said:

 

So there is no need for women to act like a wife, they can be business partners.

Yep, it's more realistic 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Here's the automated transcript (I am bolding the parts that I think are most interesting) :

Wow.  A few thoughts:

1. I have been thinking that child trafficking might have a bit of a "Moral Panic" component to it, but I have not said anything because I lack sufficient evidence/information, so I have not wanted to minimize what might be a truly huge issue.  This fellow seems to be indicating that the problem, while no doubt very serious and needing attention, is  being overstated/overhyped a bit.

2. His comments about Tim Ballard's (alleged) sexual misconduct are troubling.  He treats these allegations as definitely true ("{Tim} was full on having affairs{,} I know the names of multiple people that he had the affairs with broke up families..."), and that confirming information/evidence is "going to come out."  He may well have been a percipient witness, or else far better situated to competently assess the credibility of these claims than we are.  

3. I am very interested in his comments about whether drawing attention to, or creating "awareness" about, child trafficking is or may be contributing to the problem rather than helping resolve/reduce it.  Specifically this observation: "{I}t was a eighth grade school teacher and she would use her position to get these girls{.}  {S}he'd just tell them they were coming to a party they'd go to the party and next thing they knew they were being {} raped{,} drugged{,} told that if they told anybody they would you know kill {them} or they'd tell their parents what they did{.} {A}nd and so that's how trafficking usually works it wasn't like these girls were being held against their will 24 7."

4. He also has some interesting comments about how OUR definitely helped some victims ("I absolutely know we rescued girls and I know that we save{d} their lives and so both things can be true..."), but also inadvertently sometimes created a market for trafficking.  His comments: "t+{T}hey were young kids they were kind of idiots they were like {} in their young 20s and I remember when they showed up to the party and they had these girls and I remember thinking to myself like '{D}id these guys just go round up some girls they know {and say} come to this party sleep with these Americans these rich Americans will pay you?' ... {This} just never sat right with me{.} ...  I saw that firsthand and so when people say maybe they create trafficking I'm not saying that didn't happen."  And here: "{P}art of me thinks that ... {the very act of Sound of Freedom} becoming the number one movie {is} great for awareness but how many people now have the seed planted that oh my gosh you can actually go get this{,} where they never would have thought about it before{,} and so that part is tricky."

5. His comments about Tim A) having ego-related issues and money issues affecting his behavior and motives, B) having a tendency to get rid of good guys and keep "yes" men around him are both interesting and troubling.

6. He strongly corroborates the "Whiteboard" narrative, namely, that Tim was using Pres. Ballard's name in some very problematic ways.

7. His comments about Janet Russon are interesting.  He says he knew nothing about her being a psychic.  

8. He also includes some very astute comments about how "trafficking" is often occurring "from their {kids'} houses," and that parents need to be aware of with whom their kids are in contact, etc.

Thoughts?

Thanks for this very time consuming post I'm thinking! 

My thoughts:

1. People shouldn't give up on OUR if it's been more fine tuned and better than in the past.

2. Finally someone's talking about how teens or ?, can be trafficked from home or while living at home with their family.

3. I agree with Calm, that since Ballard left, OUR is better.

4. Not really anything you mentioned specifically, but I think that Elder Ballard got involved with OUR and did what he accused Tim of doing by using OUR for his benefits too. I heard, second hand, that Elder Ballard has a son in law that sells supplements and then Tim is advertising the supplements on one of the videos. Another second hand, that Elder Ballard has asked wealthy members for donations. 

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks for this very time consuming post I'm thinking! 

My thoughts:

1. People shouldn't give up on OUR if it's been more fine tuned and better than in the past.

2. Finally someone's talking about how teens or ?, can be trafficked from home or while living at home with their family.

3. I agree with Calm, that since Ballard left, OUR is better.

4. Not really anything you mentioned specifically, but I think that Elder Ballard got involved with OUR and did what he accused Tim of doing by using OUR for his benefits too. I heard, second hand, that Elder Ballard has a son in law that sells supplements and then Tim is advertising the supplements on one of the videos. Another second hand, that Elder Ballard has asked wealthy members for donations. 

If Elder Ballard was like a grandfather to Tim Ballard, there is a good chance Tim Ballard met members of Elder Ballard’s family or talked about TB with his family.  There is no reason to believe that Elder Ballard would pressure Tim Ballard or whatever nefarious action is being hinted at when his son in law could do it on his own, reaching out to Tim Ballard to promote his stuff or Tim Ballard offering to do it as a friend or a fee.

Elder Ballard has asked for donations to OUR?  Not surprising when he thought it was a very good cause run by good people. I have no doubt the apostles encourage people to donate to all sorts of good causes.  I would hope they did. Iirc, this was mentioned earlier. It makes sense why Elder Ballard would feel so betrayed if this happened. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

4 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Bringing volunteer women along makes no sense whatsoever. It adds multiple layers of complexity to an already dangerous mission without increasing the chances for success.

Where it does make sense is if one is creating a carefully fabricated narrative with the intent of raising money and profiles.

It isn't just the accusations of immorality that make Ballard look slimy, it's the entire situation.

Yes, I was being tongue in cheek