Tim Ballard

[teddyaware]

I’ve been engaging in a deep dive on this controversy and am now confident it’s all going to turn out to be one big nothingburger about the all too human tendency to drop names. After all is said and done, the only accusation of substance that’s likely going to remain is that Tim Ballard talked too freely about his very real grandfatherly friendship with M Russell Ballard, a relationship that’s clearly affirmed in the church’ response to Vice. Tim’s most egregious mistake is likely going to end up being that he should have realized conflating private citizen M Russell Ballard with Apostle M Russell Ballard was a bad idea, a trap that would likely could come back to haunt him. It will be interesting when Tim is able to respond to all the other accusations that the FBI investigation dropped for lack of evidence, but Vice is still trying to make stick. After the present heat subsides, cooler minds will soon realize the Vice articles are carefully crafted hit pieces by smear merchants masquerading as journalists.

Edited September 21, 2023 by teddyaware

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

I’ve been engaging in a deep dive on this controversy and am now confident it’s all going to turn out to be one big nothingburger about the all too human tendency to drop names. After all is said and done, the only accusation of substance that’s likely going to remain is that Tim Ballard talked too freely about his very real grandfatherly friendship with M Russell Ballard, a relationship that’s clearly affirmed in the church’ response to Vice. Tim’s most egregious mistake is likely going to end up being that he should have realized conflating private citizen M Russell Ballard with Apostle M Russell Ballard was a bad idea, a trap that would likely could come back to haunt him. It will be interesting when Tim is able to respond to all the other accusations that the FBI investigation dropped for lack of evidence, but Vice is still trying to make stick. After the present heat subsides, cooler minds will soon realize the Vice articles are carefully crafted hit pieces by smear merchants masquerading as journalists.

And his embellishment of stories, including the alleged appropriation of “Liliana” as a victim rescued by OUR when they had nothing to do with it and the use of Janet Russon’s Nephi connection being part of their intelligence gathering?  How do you deal with those?

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

I’ve been engaging in a deep dive on this controversy and am now confident it’s all going to turn out to be one big nothingburger about the all too human tendency to drop names. After all is said and done, the only accusation of substance that’s likely going to remain is that Tim Ballard talked too freely about his very real grandfatherly friendship with M Russell Ballard, a relationship that’s clearly affirmed in the church’ response to Vice. Tim’s most egregious mistake is likely going to end up being that he should have realized conflating private citizen M Russell Ballard with Apostle M Russell Ballard was a bad idea, a trap that would likely could come back to haunt him. It will be interesting when Tim is able to respond to all the other accusations that the FBI investigation dropped for lack of evidence, but Vice is still trying to make stick. After the present heat subsides, cooler minds will soon realize the Vice articles are carefully crafted hit pieces by smear merchants masquerading as journalists.

Dive deeper.

[Calm]

https://publicsquaremag.org/politics-law/politics/latter-day-saint-take-tim-ballard-allegations/
 

There is a lot more to it, this part interested me the most:

Quote

The phenomenon of influential figures falling from grace is not new to Latter-day Saints. Historically, the pattern of calling out by name is deeply tied to Latter-day Saint history and practice. The Doctrine & Covenants, revelations from the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ, chastises Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, Peter Whitmer Jr., Ezra Thayre, Frederick G. Williams, and Newell K. Whitney. Though each of these figures was also a powerful influence for good, the Lord also saw fit to publicly chastise them. “As many as I love,” the Lord explained, “I rebuke and chasten.”

Historical instances like John C. Bennett’s scandal in Nauvoo remind us that falling public figures aren’t a modern phenomenon. However, the social media age, and the blooming of unvetted religious influencers, have amplified this effect giving rise to figures such as Sterling Van Wagenen, Denver Snuffer, Natasha Helfer, and most recently, Ruby Franke. 

Tim Ballard is only the latest in this trend, though because of his political poignancy and the recent popular film fictionalizing his claims about his life, his scandal is larger and more notable than most of these.

Still, some wonder why the Church would call out Ballard and not these other figures. Others wonder about the prudence of using Ballard’s name. In our influencer age, names are an institution complete with brand, persona, and ideology. Ballard’s approach to personal branding certainly fits into this mold. As the Latter-day Saint blog “Wheat and Tares” recently pointed out, this kind of public distancing is not only found in church history but in the recent past. 

It occurred when Ammon Bundy claimed his seizure of federal property was based on scriptural principles. And when Ayla Stewart publicly claimed that the Church’s statement condemning racism supported her white-supremacist views, the Church issued an amendment that “Church members who promote or pursue a ‘white culture’ or white supremacy agenda are not in harmony with the teachings of the Church.”

The unifying feature of these public statements is they respond to individuals who claim authority or support from the Church, which they do not, in fact, have. As a result, these kinds of rebukes have more often occurred to those on the political right since they are speaking to an audience that is attracted to authority. When left-wing figures similarly speak in opposition to church teachings, they often do so as anti-institutionalists, so the parallel issues can be dealt with privately through membership councils since there are no public claims of support the institutional Church needs to contend with in these cases. 

This is particularly sensitive when it involves issues of financial enrichment, as Ballard is accused of. The Doctrine and Covenants sections chastising Frederick G. Williams and Newell K. Whitney both refer to financial matters. More recently, in 2015, an internet store was set up by a family member of a general church officer to profit off of his general conference remarks. By the next day, the financial venture was stopped, and the general officer issued a public apology. 

The Book of Mormon contains many enjoinders against what it calls priestcraft and defines it as those who preach “that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.” Priestcraft is a concern for all church-adjacent influencers and organizations and something each person should carefully consider in choosing their influencers.

 

 

[ttribe]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

I’ve been engaging in a deep dive on this controversy and am now confident it’s all going to turn out to be one big nothingburger about the all too human tendency to drop names. After all is said and done, the only accusation of substance that’s likely going to remain is that Tim Ballard talked too freely about his very real grandfatherly friendship with M Russell Ballard, a relationship that’s clearly affirmed in the church’ response to Vice. Tim’s most egregious mistake is likely going to end up being that he should have realized conflating private citizen M Russell Ballard with Apostle M Russell Ballard was a bad idea, a trap that would likely could come back to haunt him. It will be interesting when Tim is able to respond to all the other accusations that the FBI investigation dropped for lack of evidence, but Vice is still trying to make stick. After the present heat subsides, cooler minds will soon realize the Vice articles are carefully crafted hit pieces by smear merchants masquerading as journalists.

I'm pretty confident your post is wishful thinking.

[pogi]

59 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

I’ve been engaging in a deep dive on this controversy and am now confident it’s all going to turn out to be one big nothingburger about the all too human tendency to drop names. After all is said and done, the only accusation of substance that’s likely going to remain is that Tim Ballard talked too freely about his very real grandfatherly friendship with M Russell Ballard, a relationship that’s clearly affirmed in the church’ response to Vice. Tim’s most egregious mistake is likely going to end up being that he should have realized conflating private citizen M Russell Ballard with Apostle M Russell Ballard was a bad idea, a trap that would likely could come back to haunt him. It will be interesting when Tim is able to respond to all the other accusations that the FBI investigation dropped for lack of evidence, but Vice is still trying to make stick. After the present heat subsides, cooler minds will soon realize the Vice articles are carefully crafted hit pieces by smear merchants masquerading as journalists.

Elder Ballard's response didn't seem very "grandfatherly".  

[Smiley McGee]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Dive deeper.

Won’t matter. Conspiracy theories are hermetically sealed; all evidence is confirming evidence. 

[smac97]

On 9/21/2023 at 1:04 PM, teddyaware said:

I’ve been engaging in a deep dive on this controversy and am now confident it’s all going to turn out to be one big nothingburger about the all too human tendency to drop names.

Tim Ballard listing an apostle as a "silent" partner in a money-making venture is, in my view, a pretty serious thing.

On 9/21/2023 at 1:04 PM, teddyaware said:

After all is said and done, the only accusation of substance that’s likely going to remain is that Tim Ballard talked too freely about his very real grandfatherly friendship with M Russell Ballard, a relationship that’s clearly affirmed in the church’ response to Vice.

Only if "talked too freely" includes "naming M. Russell Ballard as a 'silent' partner in a money-making venture."

I am more skeptical about the claims of sexual misconduct.  We'll need to wait and see how these pan out.

On 9/21/2023 at 1:04 PM, teddyaware said:

Tim’s most egregious mistake is likely going to end up being that he should have realized conflating private citizen M Russell Ballard with Apostle M Russell Ballard was a bad idea, a trap that would likely could come back to haunt him.

I'm not sure what you mean here.  Name-dropping only works if the name being dropped has some real social cachet associated with it.  The only reason to namedrop Pres. Ballard would be to trade on that cachet, which has nothing to do with him (Pres. Ballard) being a "private citizen," and which instead has everything to do with him being (Acting) President of the Quorum of the Twelve.

Moreover, Tim Ballard apparently did more than just namedrop.  He also (apparently privately) named Pres. Ballard as a silent partner in a money-making venture.  This is the opposite of namedropping, or is a very unique form of it, and a dangerous one.  Keeping Pres. Ballard as a silent partner would, again, not have anything to do with him being a "private citizen," and everything to do with him being the (Acting) President of the Quorum of the Twelve.  Moreover, we have seen plenty of instances of people claiming to have some sort of special dispensation from this or that senior leader of the Church, and the eventual consequences of that are nearly always catastrophic.  And in any event, it appears that we are confronted with the need to either believe Tim Ballard or believe M. Russell Ballard.  That whiteboard presentation is, in my view, very problematic.  And notably, Tim Ballard has not addressed it.  At all.  If he had not listed Pres. Ballard as a "silent {partner/member}" of Slave Stealers, LLC, he could - as part of his public statements - specifically and emphatically deny that he did this.  He has, instead, offered only an oblique and generalized denial:

Quote

“I’ve never used Elder Ballard’s name. Ever! I’ve never treaded on his name to ask for anything. I’ve never had any business dealings with him. He’s like a grandfather to me,” Tim Ballard said.

Well, Tim, you have yet to explain this:

Tim Ballard: "I’ve never used Elder Ballard’s name. Ever! I’ve never treaded on his name to ask for anything. I’ve never had any business dealings with him."

Also Tim Ballard (allegedly): "Russell Ballard (silent partner) {in Slave Stealers, LLC, a for-profit limited liability company}."

I would really like to see Tim address this.

On 9/21/2023 at 1:04 PM, teddyaware said:

It will be interesting when Tim is able to respond to all the other accusations that the FBI investigation dropped for lack of evidence, but Vice is still trying to make stick.

I'm not particular fan of VICE, but they've done a solid piece of muckraking journalism on this one.

On 9/21/2023 at 1:04 PM, teddyaware said:

After the present heat subsides, cooler minds will soon realize the Vice articles are carefully crafted hit pieces by smear merchants masquerading as journalists.

VICE did not create the County Prosecutor's investigation, or the evidence compiled in it.

VICE did not - as far as we know - fabricate or tamper with the whiteboard image above, the one that lists "M. Russell Ballard (silent partner) {in Slave Stealers, LLC, a for-profit limited liability company}."

I really love being a Latter-day Saint, and I am happy and grateful to see my fellow Latter-day Saints going out and doing good in the world.  I want them to succeed.  Tim Ballard is no exception.  I am, or should be, cheering him on in such a noble cause.  I have no vendetta against him.  I have no desire to bolster a "hit piece" by "smear merchants" against a prominent Latter-day Saint.  And it may well be that the allegations of sexual impropriety are unfounded.  Time will tell.  However, there seems to be colorable evidence that Tim Ballard did misappropriate Pres. Ballard's name.  If I am wrong about that, then so is Pres. Ballard.  And if I'm wrong about that, I want the record corrected to reflect that error.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

Edited May 8, 2025 by smac97

[MustardSeed]

20 minutes ago, smac97 said:

And if I'm wrong about that, I want the record corrected to reflect that error.

Good luck.  The church does not apologize. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

And his embellishment of stories, including the alleged appropriation of “Liliana” as a victim rescued by OUR when they had nothing to do with it and the use of Janet Russon’s Nephi connection being part of their intelligence gathering?  How do you deal with those?

Oh that's a nothing burger.

[Tacenda]

My husband mentioned this happening, no more denying it's from the church.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50735438/tim-ballard-accusations-incredibly-disturbing-if-true-cox-says

Cox said that he also reached out to the church for confirmation, and was told that "it had been vetted through all the normal church processes" and was not the result of a "rogue spokesperson."

Edited September 21, 2023 by Tacenda

[smac97]

More: Utah Gov. Spencer Cox says LDS Church’s condemnation of Tim Ballard is real, allegations are ‘incredibly disturbing’

Quote

Utah Gov. Spencer Cox hesitantly waded into the controversy surrounding anti-human-trafficking activist Tim Ballard and his possible run for U.S. Senate next year, saying the allegations against Ballard, if true, are “incredibly disturbing” and “unconscionable.”

The governor also said he personally confirmed that a recent condemnation of Ballard by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was real.
...
“I wondered, like everybody else, what was happening? There had to be something out there. To have The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issue a statement like that, a very strong statement, very rare that they do something like that,” Cox said Thursday during his monthly news conference.

Many Ballard supporters have added their voices to the chorus of people suggesting the condemnation from the church was somehow not sanctioned.

”We’ve received countless communications from concerned members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who told us that they called the church offices to inquire whether or not the statement leaked to a tabloid was actually from the church,” Todd Tueller, CEO of The SPEAR Fund, an anti-trafficking group where Ballard is now a senior adviser, said in a statement.

Tueller alleged that Ballard backers, and The SPEAR Fund itself, have been told the condemnation “did not come from the church.”

Wow.  Crazy stuff.

Quote

According to church officials and the reporting of The Salt Lake Tribune, VICE News and the church-owned Deseret News, the condemnation of Ballard is an official statement from the Utah-based faith.

”There was a lot of pushback, like did this really come from the church? Did it come from a rogue spokesperson?” Cox told reporters. “I reached out to the church personally and was assured that it did come from the church, that it had been vetted through all the normal church processes.”
...
“We believe in a system where people are innocent until proven guilty,” Cox said. “The allegations from several different women are incredibly disturbing and just awful. I hope they’re not true, but we have multiple organizations that are speaking out, and that’s deeply troubling.”

This is, I suppose, a civil matter, so it's appropriate for Gov. Cox to weigh in.  And his comments are pretty even-keeled.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

And his embellishment of stories, including the alleged appropriation of “Liliana” as a victim rescued by OUR when they had nothing to do with it and the use of Janet Russon’s Nephi connection being part of their intelligence gathering?  How do you deal with those?

A few questions I'd like to see Tim answer:

1. Do you dispute the authenticity of the photograph of the whiteboard, published in news reports and listing "M. Russell Ballard" as a "silent" partner or member of "Slave Stealers, LLC?"

2. What did you mean by listing "M. Russell Ballard (Silent)?"

3. What role, if any, did Janet Russon play in OUR operations, and did any aspect of it involve supposed "psychic" efforts/abilities by her?

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

Quote

Tueller alleged that Ballard backers, and The SPEAR Fund itself, have been told the condemnation “did not come from the church.”

By whom though?

This guy is the odd man out on saying it was not verified. Is his source Tim Ballard? 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Calm

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Eric Moutos (Right Wing - tried to organize a Covid concert against public health order in Kaysville UT) issues statement calling on Ballard to repent after speaking to a female victim. FWIW. 
 

https://x.com/realericmoutsos/status/1704711742067286287?s=46&t=ipJkniRwl_1iK-eoUKxnNw

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by SeekingUnderstanding

[MustardSeed]

9 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Eric Moutos (Right Wing - tried to organize a Covid concert against public health order in Kaysville UT) issues statement calling on Ballard to repent after speaking to a female victim. FWIW. 
 

https://x.com/realericmoutsos/status/1704711742067286287?s=46&t=ipJkniRwl_1iK-eoUKxnNw

 

 

This guy better make sure HIS nose stays clean. 

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Smiley McGee said:

Won’t matter. Conspiracy theories are hermetically sealed; all evidence is confirming evidence. 

Depends on the person. For some any evidence against them being right is just further proof of the cabal they are fighting having vast undefeatable power.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

This guy better make sure HIS nose stays clean. 

He really likes alliteration.  Great voice, just a bit overdoing it. 
 

This is the guy who was complimented for appropriate response in one LGBT encounter, but then quit/was terminated for refusing to do the motorcycle routine in a Pride parade, though he was will to do protection.  Then he bounced around for awhile and I lost track of what he was doing.  He was pushing nutrition supplements or something last I saw.

His website:  https://www.ericmoutsos.com

I would assume he is a very strong Tim Ballard supporter, so if he has verified two of the victims, that seems highly unlikely to be a hit job on Ballard. 
 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Calm

[Smiley McGee]

13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

For some any evidence against them being right is just further proof of the cabal they are fighting having vast undefeatable power.

Yes, or, “all evidence is confirming evidence.”

[Smiley McGee]

It’s interesting to observe the defense of Tim Ballard by faithful members, since this defense usually involves at least tacit disagreement with the church’s distancing of itself from Ballard. What’s interesting is that even hardened critics of the church understand that the church is dead serious about its public image, statements, and official comments. The likelihood that the church vetted this matter with intense care is very high. The likelihood that those defending Ballard have any better info than the church is probably very low.
 

If any defenders want to put their money where their mouth is and put money and odds on how this thing shakes out, I’m game. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Smiley McGee

[smac97]

Just now, Smiley McGee said:

It’s interesting to observe the defense of Tim Ballard by faithful members, since this defense usually involves at least tacit disagreement with the church’s distancing of itself from Ballard.

There are also a decent number of "faithful members" who are expressing concerns about Tim Ballard, and are not particularly defending him.

Just now, Smiley McGee said:

What’s interesting is that even hardened critics of the church understand that the  church is dead serious about its public image, statements, and official comments.

Most people and groups are concerned about the good name / reputation / "public image," etc.  Nothing wrong with that.

Just now, Smiley McGee said:

The likelihood that the church vetted this matter with intense care is very high.

There are a few irregularities about the Church's statement that make me kinda sorta question this.

The statement was to VICE, as opposed to a statement on the Church's Newsroom website.

The statement was sent to VICE in response to "a detailed request for comment on these matters."  How much lead time did VICE give for the Church to prepare a response?  A week?  A few days?  A few hours?  An hour?  We don't know.  Is it possible that the Church allowed itself to be rushed/stampeded into making a statement, and that as a result the statement was not as measured and moderate as the Church's other public statements typically are?

The statement directly and strongly attacked the character of Tim Ballard.  "Tim Ballard had betrayed their friendship."  "{A}ctivity regarded as morally unacceptable."  This is really out of character for a statement from the Church, which could indicate that it was rushed and/or not "vetted ... with intense care."

The statement does not cite to any evidence, and uses the passive voice, thus obscuring the evidentiary basis for it.  "Once it became clear."  "{A}ctivity regarded as morally unacceptable."  Again, this is really out of character for the Church.

Just now, Smiley McGee said:

The likelihood that those defending Ballard have any better info than the church is probably very low. 

I agree with this.  Most of us are just bystanders.

Thanks,

-Smac

[ttribe]

3 minutes ago, smac97 said:

There are a few irregularities about the Church's statement that make me kinda sorta question this.

The statement was to VICE, as opposed to a statement on the Church's Newsroom website.

The statement was sent to VICE in response to "a detailed request for comment on these matters."  How much lead time did VICE give for the Church to prepare a response?  A week?  A few days?  A few hours?  An hour?  We don't know.  Is it possible that the Church allowed itself to be rushed/stampeded into making a statement, and that as a result the statement was not as measured and moderate as the Church's other public statements typically are?

The statement directly and strongly attacked the character of Tim Ballard.  "Tim Ballard had betrayed their friendship."  "{A}ctivity regarded as morally unacceptable."  This is really out of character for a statement from the Church, which could indicate that it was rushed and/or not "vetted ... with intense care."

The statement does not cite to any evidence, and uses the passive voice, thus obscuring the evidentiary basis for it.  "Once it became clear."  "{A}ctivity regarded as morally unacceptable."  Again, this is really out of character for the Church.

"I reached out to the Church personally and was assured that that did come from the Church, that it had been vetted through all the normal Church processes." - Spencer Cox

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/cox-calls-ballard-allegations-disturbing-and-unconscionable-if-true

[smac97]

7 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Quote

The statement was sent to VICE in response to "a detailed request for comment on these matters."  How much lead time did VICE give for the Church to prepare a response?  A week?  A few days?  A few hours?  An hour?  We don't know.  Is it possible that the Church allowed itself to be rushed/stampeded into making a statement, and that as a result the statement was not as measured and moderate as the Church's other public statements typically are?

"I reached out to the Church personally and was assured that that did come from the Church, that it had been vetted through all the normal Church processes." - Spencer Cox

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/cox-calls-ballard-allegations-disturbing-and-unconscionable-if-true

That's a pretty solid point.  It's hearsay, but I think Gov. Cox has no incentive to lie or distort what he was told.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Smiley McGee]

42 minutes ago, smac97 said:

There are also a decent number of "faithful members" who are expressing concerns about Tim Ballard, and are not particularly defending him.

Irrelevant to my comment. 

42 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Most people and groups are concerned about the good name / reputation / "public image," etc.  Nothing wrong with that.

Didn’t say there was anything wrong with it; a poor reading on your part.
 

42 minutes ago, smac97 said:

There are a few irregularities about the Church's statement that make me kinda sorta question this.

The statement was to VICE, as opposed to a statement on the Church's Newsroom website.

That the church was willing to go on the record with Vice seems to suggest they want broad awareness of their position. What percentage of the non-LDS population even knows the newsroom exists? If vice lied, the Church can very quickly and effectively correct the record.
 

42 minutes ago, smac97 said:

The statement directly and strongly attacked the character of Tim Ballard.  "Tim Ballard had betrayed their friendship."  "{A}ctivity regarded as morally unacceptable."  This is really out of character for a statement from the Church, which could indicate that it was rushed and/or not "vetted ... with intense care."

When the church is strong in its wording it suggests a lack of due care? That’s dumb. You think the church has any interest in having to retract? 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Smiley McGee

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, ttribe said:

"I reached out to the Church personally and was assured that that did come from the Church, that it had been vetted through all the normal Church processes." - Spencer Cox

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/cox-calls-ballard-allegations-disturbing-and-unconscionable-if-true

I can see it being somewhat rushed because the language is more emotional than usual, but completely accurate in terms of facts.  Iow, after thoroughly vetting what its purpose was to be (explaining the distancing of Pres Ballard from T Ballard and why the distancing happened (misuse of Pres Ballard’s name and immoral behaviour, fraud and possibly sexual), it went through a half dozen drafts first rather than the usual 2 dozen (I have no clue how many is usual, just using these to make it clear what I mean).

It went through all the usual Church processes, just not as many times as usual, I am guessing.