Calm Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 33 minutes ago, sunstoned said: I never could figure out how it worked. I haven't seen one for years. https://antiques.lovetoknow.com/kitchen-collectibles/antique-cream-separator 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 The official line from our government, based on very solid evidence, has for some years been that there is 'no safe level' of alcohol consumption. I've never really seen them do anything more than acknowledge this fact, however, until last year, when ads started appearing in bus shelters stating the links between alcohol and various diseases, such as cancer. I've wondered if maybe a pandemic-related spike in alcohol consumption at home may have led to this? 2
Scott Lloyd Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 For years, I’ve heard the claim that drinking wine in moderation is beneficial as an anti-oxidant. However, this has struck me as a rationalization, as it is not the alcoholic property of wine that gives it this characteristic. Yo get the same benefit from drinking grape juice.
sunstoned Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Ours looked something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174972536653?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=174972536653&targetid=1263094003346&device=m&mktype=&googleloc=9029748&poi=&campaignid=14859008593&mkgroupid=130497710760&rlsatarget=pla-1263094003346&abcId=9300678&merchantid=511564741&gclid=CjwKCAiA0KmPBhBqEiwAJqKK4y2LWKFbjS00daLfkzz-OaYYP8_VtN1nPZxEVqy69abzDuM4fMns2RoCZd0QAvD_BwE That is exactly like the one that was in our barn.
Peacefully Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 13 hours ago, The Nehor said: If avocado green in kitchens and bathrooms comes back though just burn it all down. Society can’t make that mistake twice and live. It is making a comeback in mid-century modern design, 😂
Calm Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 31 minutes ago, Peacefully said: It is making a comeback in mid-century modern design, 😂 Ach! All that Sage is bad enough. 1
The Nehor Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Peacefully said: It is making a comeback in mid-century modern design, 😂 Abandon all hope. 2
The Nehor Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: For years, I’ve heard the claim that drinking wine in moderation is beneficial as an anti-oxidant. However, this has struck me as a rationalization, as it is not the alcoholic property of wine that gives it this characteristic. Yo get the same benefit from drinking grape juice. True to a degree but also depends on how the grape juice is processed. In general unless it is made fresh from grapes the antioxidant effect of grape juice is less than that of red wine. If you really need the anti-oxidants drink a LOT of grape juice or (easier) just eat grapes. 2
LoudmouthMormon Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 Can I just say that I absolutely detest this article? Not because of it's content or accuracy, but because it fails to do basic kindergarten journalism. It's an article about a policy briefing, and there is no link to the policy briefing. Bad journalism! A pox on the Bloomberg "Press Association"! I hope their yearly wage adjustments do not cover inflation! I hope their tires develop slow leaks! 2
california boy Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 Since leaving the Church, I find myself in much more social situations where wine is drunk. Rarely have I seen someone get drunk to the point of being obnoxious. People do like the buzz you get and actually they seem to like the taste of different wines. It is not a moral issue for them at all. It is a way of connecting with friends. I personally don't like wine or beer. My friends are all aware of that and often make sure they have a Coke Zero for me to drink. I do feel a little left out of the whole social connection, but not to the point where I am willing to drink what to me taste like rotten grapes. My partner has allergies. He has learned that red wine has antihistamines in it that really helps when he has an allergy attack. I have seen him go from sneezing and running nose to it completely disappear when he has a red glass of wine. I guess since I don't really have an ax to grind in this issue, I find there may be arguments about what is healthy and what is not. In the end, it doesn't really matter does it? I mean does anyone make every food choice based on whether something is healthy for you? Church members should stick with their abstaining from alcohol mostly because they think it pleases God. I don't think others believe Christ has a problem with drinking wine. 1
The Nehor Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, california boy said: I guess since I don't really have an ax to grind in this issue, I find there may be arguments about what is healthy and what is not. In the end, it doesn't really matter does it? I mean does anyone make every food choice based on whether something is healthy for you? Also historically one of the reasons that people drink alcohol is that it avoids a lot of the nasty bugs and parasites you can get from water. Given a choice between heart problems in 30 years and getting violently and dangerously sick now from something in the water I would probably go with the wine or beer. Of course it is doubtful that was the way they specifically presented the choice. I am going to have to just stomach the wine if I am invited to drink new wine with Christ when He returns. Probably not likely. I will probably be passed out on the couch with a four-pack of IBC like I usually am. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 7 hours ago, sunstoned said: That is exactly like the one that was in our barn. Maybe it was the industry standard in its day. 1
JustAnAustralian Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: The official line from our government, based on very solid evidence, has for some years been that there is 'no safe level' of alcohol consumption. Ours admits that, but only updated the guidelines to reduce the official safe intake, rather than changing it to no safe intake. https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2020/12/09/new-alcohol-guidelines-urge-aussies-to-go-easy-on-the-booze.html
The Nehor Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 On the other hand alcohol brought us prohibition and thus my favorite woman in American history: Carrie Nation Some quotes: “The next morning I was awakened by a voice which seemed to me speaking in my heart, these words, "GO TO KIOWA," and my hands were lifted and thrown down and the words, "I'LL STAND BY YOU." The words, "Go to Kiowa," were spoken in a murmuring, musical tone, low and soft, but "I'll stand by you," was very clear, positive and emphatic. I was impressed with a great inspiration, the interpretation was very plain, it was this: "Take something in your hands, and throw at these places in Kiowa and smash them."” “I felt invincible. My strength was that of a giant. God was certainly standing by me. I smashed five saloons with rocks before I ever took a hatchet.” “You refused me the vote and I had to use a rock.” “A Pittsburgh factory is making me a lot of hatchets on which will be the words: 'Carry Nation's Loving Home Defenders. Smash the Saloon and build up the home.'” “Oh, I tell you, ladies, you never know what joy it gives you to start out to smash a rumshop.” That is not hyperbole. Her first husband died to due to alcoholism In her mid-50s she lived in Kansas where the sale of alcohol was illegal but saloons operated anyways. She started out carrying her “smashers” (rocks mostly) to illegal saloons and started smashing everything while praying. Her husband jokingly suggested she should take a hatchet so she started taking a hatchet to do more damage. She would greet bartenders with greetings such as: “Good morning, destroyer of men's souls." She called her visits “hatchetations”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Nation I like to think she is in heaven. Hopefully smashing things. 1
sunstoned Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: On the other hand alcohol brought us prohibition and thus my favorite woman in American history: Carrie Nation Some quotes: “The next morning I was awakened by a voice which seemed to me speaking in my heart, these words, "GO TO KIOWA," and my hands were lifted and thrown down and the words, "I'LL STAND BY YOU." The words, "Go to Kiowa," were spoken in a murmuring, musical tone, low and soft, but "I'll stand by you," was very clear, positive and emphatic. I was impressed with a great inspiration, the interpretation was very plain, it was this: "Take something in your hands, and throw at these places in Kiowa and smash them."” “I felt invincible. My strength was that of a giant. God was certainly standing by me. I smashed five saloons with rocks before I ever took a hatchet.” “You refused me the vote and I had to use a rock.” “A Pittsburgh factory is making me a lot of hatchets on which will be the words: 'Carry Nation's Loving Home Defenders. Smash the Saloon and build up the home.'” “Oh, I tell you, ladies, you never know what joy it gives you to start out to smash a rumshop.” That is not hyperbole. Her first husband died to due to alcoholism In her mid-50s she lived in Kansas where the sale of alcohol was illegal but saloons operated anyways. She started out carrying her “smashers” (rocks mostly) to illegal saloons and started smashing everything while praying. Her husband jokingly suggested she should take a hatchet so she started taking a hatchet to do more damage. She would greet bartenders with greetings such as: “Good morning, destroyer of men's souls." She called her visits “hatchetations”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Nation I like to think she is in heaven. Hopefully smashing things. Prohibition was also the genesis of a lot of the organized crime
Bernard Gui Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) On 1/21/2022 at 4:22 PM, Scott Lloyd said: We used to have a monastery up in Huntsville, a rural area of Utah. But the monks didn’t make wine. They were beekeepers and produced honey. I feel I cheated myself, because I worked at the Ogden Standard-Examiner newspaper back in the early ‘80s and never bothered to make the easy drive to visit the monastery and purchase product. Then, they shut it down years ago. On 1/21/2022 at 11:35 PM, sunstoned said: I grew up having to milk our cow before Seminary every morning. You are right about the cream. We would put the milk in 1 gallon bottles and refrigerate. Within an hour the cream would rise and there would be a clear demarcation between cream and milk. The cream was very thick. Like you said, it had to be spooned off. Not so. Shake it up good and then down the hatch. Delicious. Having served for 12 years in the Addiction Recovery Program, having lost several close and dear relatives and almost losing a father and a son to alcoholism, I have reached the conclusion that there is no good reason to drink alcoholic beverages. Edited January 23, 2022 by Bernard Gui 1
The Nehor Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 2 hours ago, sunstoned said: Prohibition was also the genesis of a lot of the organized crime It was but it also ended America’s “Everyone is an alcoholic” era. They drank….a lot. Not just a lot compared to now but a lot compared to even other nations lot. Of course prohibition was also disproportionate in who it targeted (the wealthy stockpiled before prohibition went into affect) and the later pro-prohibition groups were more than a little morally dubious. Here is a fun video summary about prohibition:
Bernard Gui Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) On 1/21/2022 at 1:19 PM, MiserereNobis said: I always thought the idea that drinking wine for health was a bit silly. I couldn't imagine a person saying, "I hate wine, but it's time to take my medicine" *gulp* That said, I'm sure many people used the idea that wine is good for your heart as another justification for their drinking. I guess I never needed that. I enjoy a hearty beer, a good glass of red wine, or a peaty scotch. The flavor, the texture, and the feeling are something I choose to experience. I know that abstaining would probably be healthier (I don't drink a lot), but we all engage in things that affect our health negatively, trading health for whatever benefits or enjoyment come from what we are doing. I'd rather have wine than fast food, so I choose the former and never the later Alcohol does have a big history in Catholic culture, especially in monasteries. One of the two monasteries I regularly go on retreats to brews beer and sells it. It's fun to drink a beer that has a picture of a monk you know on it, ha: Anyways, just my thoughts as a drinker. The Cor Jesu monastery in the Jemez Mountains near my home in Los Alamos, NM, was established to help people with addictions, and then became a refuge for troubled or alcoholic priests. My dad, who was raised in a Polish Catholic Church in New Jersey but joined the LDS Church when I was 12, used to say it was a place where they dried out the priests. A few years ago when it was discovered that some of them had problems with pedophilia, it was sold to the Native American Jemez Pueblo. Coincidentally, the monastery was moved to New Market, Tennessee, which is less than three hours from our new Kentucky home. How about a Trappist monastery that sells Kentucky Bourbon Fruitcake? https://www.gethsemanifarms.org/?fbclid=IwAR2OQ-_tYmJxSiClgGs6v1vqNMtJMfTQS2kEzT60ep_DKymZrXWA_-HCNzk Edited January 24, 2022 by Bernard Gui
Bernard Gui Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) On 1/21/2022 at 4:22 PM, Scott Lloyd said: We used to have a monastery up in Huntsville, a rural area of Utah. But the monks didn’t make wine. They were beekeepers and produced honey. I feel I cheated myself, because I worked at the Ogden Standard-Examiner newspaper back in the early ‘80s and never bothered to make the easy drive to visit the monastery and purchase product. Then, they shut it down years ago. Around 1972 when I was studying Medieval music at BYU, Dr. Thomas Mathiesen took our class there to hear the evening Mass sung in Latin Gregorian chant. IIRC, they were Cistercians. Beautiful music and services, but one of the monks was monotone and couldn’t match pitch. Since Gregorian chant is sung in unison, we surmised that singing in harmony came about through a similar circumstance 1000 years earlier. I learned to read, write, and sing chant. I don’t know if many churches still do that. I consider my three months in the old Language Training Mission as my time in a monastery. I really enjoyed it…could have gotten used to the lifestyle. Edited January 25, 2022 by Bernard Gui 2
Calm Posted March 30, 2022 Posted March 30, 2022 More research….not making a point here, just an FYI https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2790520 Quote In this cohort study of 371 463 individuals, genetic evidence supported a nonlinear, consistently risk-increasing association between all amounts of alcohol consumption and both hypertension and coronary artery disease, with modest increases in risk with light alcohol intake and exponentially greater risk increases at higher levels of consumption.… In this cohort study, coincident, favorable lifestyle factors attenuated the observational benefits of modest alcohol intake. Genetic epidemiology suggested that alcohol consumption of all amounts was associated with increased cardiovascular risk, but marked risk differences exist across levels of intake, including those accepted by current national guidelines. 3
SeekingUnderstanding Posted March 31, 2022 Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Calm said: More research….not making a point here, just an FYI https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2790520 I didn’t quite understand how genetics were used but I think this is the key paragraph: Quote Well-established J- or U-shaped curves were recapitulated for the association between alcohol consumption and both the prevalence and hazards of hypertension, CAD, MI, stroke, heart failure, and atrial fibrillation (Figure 1; eFigures 1 and 2 in the Supplement). However, individuals in the light and moderate consumption group had healthier lifestyle behaviors than abstainers, self-reporting better overall health and exhibiting lower rates of smoking, lower BMI, higher physical activity, and higher vegetable intake (eFigure 3 in the Supplement). Adjustment for the aforementioned lifestyle factors attenuated the cardioprotective associations with modest alcohol intake. For example, in baseline models, moderate intake was associated with significantly lower risk of hypertension and CAD, but adjustment for just 6 lifestyle factors rendered these results insignificant Moderate and light drinkers are healthier in these areas than those that abstain on average. Is it the alcohol? No, but given that everything will kill you eventually (walking increases risk of vehicular death*, driving has risks etc) it seems like the ideal of moderation in all things rings true. The non drinkers are doing worse overall than those that imbibe in moderation. *For example this study controlled for BMI. So while walking may improve your health, if you control for BMI that is negated and all you have is an increase in injury rate. Edited March 31, 2022 by SeekingUnderstanding 1
2BizE Posted March 31, 2022 Posted March 31, 2022 According to the Lord, drinking wine of your own make is good, so it can’t be all bad.
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 31, 2022 Posted March 31, 2022 On 1/22/2022 at 3:33 AM, smac97 said: Huh. I hadn't really thought of these claims as possibly deriving from "the alcohol industry." I'd like to see if there is evidence of that. Solid evidence. A summary from the Huffington Post (where you can find the links to the original stories): Quote Officials at the government agency tasked with studying the health effects of alcohol aggressively courted alcohol executives to fund a $100 million clinical trial on “moderate drinking,” according to recently published investigations by The New York Times, Wired and Stat. The executives complied, according to the Times, with the understanding that this research would probably conclude alcohol is safe and lowers the risk of disease. Together, these reports paint a disturbing picture about the way alcohol companies are trying to influence scientific understanding, and thus public perception, of alcohol as a health tonic. If you’ve ever seen headlines about how red wine is good for your heart, or how moderate alcohol use is linked to longer life, you’ve seen the alcohol industry’s influence on health science at work. And Americans seem to be swallowing that message. A 2015 Gallup poll found that 1 in 5 Americans believe “moderate” drinking is good for health, and that this was especially true among those who drink alcohol. This belief is a boon for the alcohol industry for at least two reasons: It links alcohol consumption to a healthy lifestyle that can improve heart health, and it relies on the concept of “moderation,” a squishy term that in practice ends up meaning whatever drinkers want it to mean. Alcohol executives were allowed to help pick the scientists and preview the trial’s design, reports the Times, while Wired reported on how dependent the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) is on industry funding to complete the expensive, long-term study. Finally, Stat has a story about how scientists who published unflattering research about the alcohol industry were verbally abused by NIAAA officials and cut off from funding. And an interesting follow-up from Vox: Quote A task force assigned to review the controversial National Institutes of Health alcohol study determined on June 15 that the study should be terminated. “The early and frequent engagement with industry representatives calls into question the impartiality of the process and thus, casts doubt that the scientific knowledge gained from the study would be actionable or believable,” the panel wrote. Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health, agreed ... The researchers behind the study reportedly persuaded alcohol industry executives to fund them by arguing the trial “represents a unique opportunity to show that moderate alcohol consumption is safe and lowers risk of common diseases” — before they had even enrolled their first patient. The study “is not public health research — it’s marketing,” Michael Siegel, a professor of community health sciences at Boston University School of Public Health, told Times reporter Roni Caryn Rabin. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 31, 2022 Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: Given that everything will kill you eventually (walking increases risk of vehicular death*, driving has risks etc) it seems like the ideal of moderation in all things rings true. This is certainly the line the industry has been aggressively marketing, but it is not what academic researchers say: Quote The level of consumption that minimises an individual's risk is 0 g of ethanol per week, largely driven by the fact that the estimated protective effects for ischaemic heart disease and diabetes in women are offset by monotonic associations with cancer ... The conclusions of the study are clear and unambiguous: alcohol is a colossal global health issue and small reductions in health-related harms at low levels of alcohol intake are outweighed by the increased risk of other health-related harms, including cancer. There is strong support here for the guideline published by the Chief Medical Officer of the UK who found that there is “no safe level of alcohol consumption”. Edited March 31, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan 2
JustAnAustralian Posted March 31, 2022 Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: The non drinkers are doing worse overall than those that imbibe in moderation. Sure. Because the other factors of the lifestyle are there. That's not the point of this type of research though. The claims are always "X glasses of red wine a day is good for you". What the jama research shows is that excluding the alcohol, a healthier lifestyle results in a generally healthier life, and that any alcohol intake just counteracts that. Edited March 31, 2022 by JustAnAustralian 1
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