Conflicts Between Family Trees and DNA

[ksfisher]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

In the US, it can be trivially easy to find records between 1850-1945. After 1945 it can be unexpectedly hard.

I believe these records (post 1940) are still considered private as the individuals referenced could still be living.  

We still have 1 WW2 veteran living in our ward.

[smac97]

16 hours ago, Analytics said:

A few years ago I did a DNA test through ancestry.com. In addition to telling me what countries my ancestors comes from, it lists other people who have taken the ancestors.com tests and have DNA that is similar to mine. It guesses what our relationship is based on how similar the DNA is. Most of my aunts, uncles, siblings, and cousins have taken the tests also, and it is satisfying to see that I share the appropriate percentage of DNA with all of them and that the ancestry.com database was able to correctly guess what these relationships are.

I recently got a notification that a new relative has been added to the database. This one was a name I didn't recognize. This individual, who we will call Sue Smith, loaded her complete family tree into the database, and I didn't recognize any of the names on it.

I did some digging on this, and noticed that Sue's mother died in the same small town where I have some relatives. Specifically, my grandmother's brother, who we will call "Uncle Joe" is from there. My aunt called up one of her cousins from that side of the family and asked if she knew who Sue Smith was. The cousin said, "Sure. That is the daughter of dad's (uncle Joe's) secretary. Why do you ask?" 

Uncle Joe is long dead now, as is his secretary. The events that lead to this are ancient history now. But the secretary's daughter is a blood relative of mine. 

Two questions come to mind. First, is there any value to reaching out to this stranger and introducing myself? Or is it just an awkward thing we should ignore?

I would err on the side of caution and go with the second option.  Was the secretary married?  Is the secretary's husband still alive?  Is this a secret that is yours to tell?

There are plenty of stories about DNA tests uncovering such things.  Sometimes the stories are happy, such as: Woman uses £99 DNA test to track down her dad 42 years after he had 'fling'

But note here that she was the one doing the exploration of her ancestry.  But sometimes that exploration yields less-than-pleasant disclosures.  See, e.g., here:

Quote

Eight months ago, Ryan got a call from his father, Gerry. It was a shocking conversation from the first words.

"My dad gave me a call one night, very distraught, crying," Ryan said. "He said, 'I have some news.' At the time I thought there's a death in the family."

His father's news was family-related, but it wasn't a death. What Gerry showed his son proved even more shocking.

"He sent a picture … It was a screen shot of Ancestry.com," Ryan said. "And he said, 'Your brother is not mine.' I said, 'What are you talking about?'"

Then he asked his father, "What about me?"

Gerry and his wife divorced years ago, but only earlier this year did Gerry and both his sons find out that they are not biologically-connected.

Ryan, 29, and his older brother, now 33, spent part of their childhood in New Jersey. They always thought their mother was their mother and their father was their father.

Instead, a home DNA test kit proved that a former New Jersey state trooper fathered both brothers. Ryan's mother confirmed to NBC10 that her sons' father is the New Jersey state trooper, but insists that she had no idea until the DNA tests this year. She declined to be interviewed on camera.

"It’s difficult. It's sad. But in the end, it really changes nothing as far as my relationship with my entire family goes," Ryan said.

Shocking results that took the family by surprise are expected to grow in number as millions more take home DNA tests in the years ahead. The idea that your life could be turned upside down from some spit on a cotton swab isn’t what most people expect when they go looking for their ancestry.

The story of Ryan and his family is both a forewarning for others and an outlook people should consider if all new family history comes out in test results.

And here (same link) :

Quote

When DNA test results came back for Anna Marie, a 50-year-old Delaware woman, the findings confused her.

For one thing, her results showed no Russian lineage. That contrasted results from a DNA test her brother took that confirmed he was 31% Russian.

"I remember looking at it and I was like, 'Oh, that’s interesting because you have that and I don’t have that,'" the Delaware woman told NBC10. "Eric, my youngest brother was like, I don’t know what that means."

Anna Marie’s mother, Anna, professed confusion as well.

"My mom was like, 'I don’t know how any of this works,'" Anna Marie said.

Yet she couldn't shake the feeling that the scientific data confirmed an unmistakable something she long held in her mind — something she couldn’t quite put into words all her life.

"You always feel that something’s not right. Something's missing," Anna Marie said. "I don't know. It's just some part of you that knows there’s something you don’t know."

Nearly 400 miles away, a woman in Virginia came across a similarly unpredictable result from her own DNA test result.

This woman, a nurse named Tina, had a first cousin from Delaware named Anna Marie, according to her findings on Ancestry.com. She reached out to her newfound Delaware relative, but didn’t hear back for several months.

Eventually, though, first cousins emailed each other.

"I said, 'Do you know my uncle?'" Tina, a nurse who lives in Roanoke, remembers initially asking Anna Marie. "She said, 'I've never heard of him.' And I said, 'Well, ask your mother.'"

When Anna Marie got back to her, Tina said, "the cat was out of the bag."

And the surprise/pain can be even more acute when the individual is not exploring his/her ancestry, and the disclosure is not being solicited by them.  See, e.g., here:

Quote

Dear Amy: I have been with my husband for 40 years.

I thought we had a great life together, however, I just found out that he has a biological son who is only two months younger than our youngest son!

The child’s mother put him up for adoption, which my husband claims he knew nothing about until months after the adoption was done.

What really hurts is that he cheated on me with this same woman when I was pregnant with our first child.

He says that she meant nothing to him (just sex), and that he always loved me, and that since it happened 30 years ago, I should just move past it.

And here:

Quote

One evening in the winter of 2016, my husband mentioned that he was sending away for one of those commercial DNA-testing kits. He asked if I wanted him to order me one as well. I could easily have said no. I wasn’t curious about my ancestry. I knew where I came from–Eastern European Ashkenazi Jews on both my parents’ sides. Instead, I said yes. Why not? It seemed like a game–like those personality tests people often take online.

The results, when I received them a few months later, changed everything I had ever understood about myself. I was only half Eastern European Ashkenazi, as it turned out. A person I had never heard of was identified as a first cousin. The truth was unavoidable. My beloved father, who died in a car accident when I was 23, had not been my biological father.

And here: A Bronx Tale: One Sperm Donor, 19 Siblings, and Six Decades of Secrets (How DNA home test kits can lead to family joy—and anguish.)

And here: DNA testing can share all your family secrets. Are you ready for that?

And here: There’s No Such Thing as Family Secrets in the Age of 23andMe

16 hours ago, Analytics said:

Second, does the Church have a mechanism for recording such messy relationships in its genealogical records? For example, can it list both your biological father and your legal father?

Good question.  I've no idea.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

15 hours ago, katherine the great said:

I’ve wondered how many marriages have been ruined by these DNA results. Lots of skeletons coming out of closets!  I wouldn’t be the bearer of bad news Analytics. Let someone else be the “bad guy.”

I think a case can be made for "letting sleeping dogs lie."  DNA tests aren't going away.  These things are going to come out.  I think individuals ought to be left to their own devices to determine whether they want to ask such questions and risk such answers.  I think springing such a difficult and unexpected truth on them without their consent or forewarning could be very traumatizing.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

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Edited November 23, 2021 by smac97

[2BizE]

I would simply reach out and say “Welcome to the family Sue”.

 

[Calm]

They need to include an option where it is stated if someone wants to be contacted under a couple of different options.  Some may ignore the request, but others who are debating based on whether or not it would trouble the ‘new’ relative, that would be helpful.

[katherine the great]

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

 

I LOVE the TV Show , "Long Lost Family"

 

Meeeee too!!!  It’s one of the few shows that is guaranteed to make me weep almost every time. Sometimes it’s therapeutic.

[LoudmouthMormon]

For those of us burdened with potentially disruptive knowledge, something else to consider:  How are our hearts supposed to turn towards the fathers, and the fathers' turn towards the children, if the only people who know who fathered who, keeps that information to themselves?

[Tacenda]

29 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Meeeee too!!!  It’s one of the few shows that is guaranteed to make me weep almost every time. Sometimes it’s therapeutic.

I'll have to check it out!

[Duncan]

36 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Meeeee too!!!  It’s one of the few shows that is guaranteed to make me weep almost every time. Sometimes it’s therapeutic.

I think one of the best ones was the episode with the foundlings and one of the stories was so beyond crazy! I take it the guy had a mistress and kept having children and abandoning them all the while he was married and had like 10 plus kids-I couldn't imagine finding out that out about your father though

[LoudmouthMormon]

Whelp, this thread motivated me to go to FamilySearch and take a walk through my family tree.   Just found out my grandpa had another wife I knew nothing about.  Apparently no kids from that union, he was apparently marriage #2 for this lady.  If there's any Brenners, Wrights, or Sloans out there - hey cuz!

[Rain]

5 hours ago, smac97 said:

I think a case can be made for "letting sleeping dogs lie."  DNA tests aren't going away.  These things are going to come out.  I think individuals ought to be left to their own devices to determine whether they want to ask such questions and risk such answers.  I think springing such a difficult and unexpected truth on them without their consent or forewarning could be very traumatizing.

Thanks,

-Smac

I agree with that, yet the DNA tests may actually be them trying to find out out the answers. Both sides could be wanting answers and not contacting the other person because they don't want to upset the other person.  Tough position to be in. 

I like calm's multiple options idea for this reason.  

[BlueDreams]

22 hours ago, Analytics said:

Two questions come to mind. First, is there any value to reaching out to this stranger and introducing myself? Or is it just an awkward thing we should ignore?

I've mentioned here that I have a messy family. I don't know if I've mentioned just how complicated it is. 

There are all together 8 biological contributors and parental figures that gave me my plethora of biologically half-siblings. At least 2 (most likely 3) of my siblings have other biological half siblings. I've had 3 meeting experiences in my lifetime with others. 2 were/are deeply valuable, 1 was a disappointment. I don't regret doing so with any of them... I like having a complete picture of where I came from and I've learned a bit about who I am from meeting these different branches of my complex family tree (probably more like bush). 

I do realize that several of the reasons I value meeting my biological peoples may not apply with this case where it's a little more distant...but then again the emotionally "awkward" factor may also be a little reduced since it's not as immediate a relation. I'll give you a few of what I've gained from these:

- closure: there were parts of me I knew were missing in my story and I wanted to understand my own history. 

-cultural connections: I gained not only better connection to my own cultural heritage but at least one of my sib's cultural heritage.

- Broadening my sense of family: I gained another family by purposely taking the time to connect with my bio-dad's side

- Appreciation for some of the things I did get from my upbringing, however messy: This actually came from the disappointing experience. Her family was so focused on ideals and were so rigid/controlling that their daughter (my biological half sis) had a really poor sense of self. Whatever faults my family had, at least I could say they owned them and learned from some of them enough to give me a better sense of personhood and independence. 

 

 

Edit: One other thing that comes to mind when I'm reading some of the other posts. I'm likely more comfortable with mess in part because of my background of basically coming from one. Awkward and even painful experiences often lead to needed healing and can reaffirm the things we value most in the end. 

 

With luv,

BD

Edited November 24, 2021 by BlueDreams

[Kenngo1969]

My [full] brother bought us all DNA kits a couple of years ago.  My family history is pretty well documented, so I wasn't expecting any surprises.  I found out I have a half-brother I didn't know anything about.  I recognize that these sorts of meetings can "run the gamut" from successful to disastrous, but I think it was cathartic for him, finally, to be able to fill in some holes.   It turns out he went into "the family business" (law enforcement).    Good thing. I'm glad somebody was able to, since my [full] older brother (unlike me) didn't have the slightest bit of interest and I was unable to, despite my keen interest.

I told my half-brother, "I'll let the biologists and the genealogists worry about the fine distinctions.  As for me, I don't do anything half-way, especially not something like brotherhood."  

Edited November 24, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[Chum]

14 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Just found out my grandpa had another wife I knew nothing about. 

Apparently, life has embedded Easter eggs.  I discovered they're not all delicious, tasty eggs.

One of mine: 90s: Doing family work and learned my dad was baptized in the Church, VA 1977 - probably one of his scams.

00s: Learned my dad lived in FL, about an hour from me. Died there in 1981.

10s: Learned my dad once lived in my town, got a marriage license across the street from my office in 1980.

This is all remarkable because I never knew the Church or my dad. I moved from VA to FL in 1992 to be closer to my wife's member parents and got baptized a few months later.

There are 3007 counties in the US and I landed in one where he lived. I seem to suck at distancing myself from him in every way possible.

[Analytics]

Thanks for all of the feedback.

Here are some more details of this situation. "Uncle Joe" had a successful business and apparently left his "legitimate" kids an inheritance. I'm guessing "Sue Smith" wasn't in the will.

The relationship isn't a secret--not anymore. When you send your DNA to ancestry.com, they give you three privacy options. You can either be completely anonymous so that the existence of your DNA profile isn't publicly available, just make the initials of your name publicly available, or be completely transparent with your full name and your family tree. Sue Smith made her profile completely transparent. I was told that Sue Smith's mother never married, but the family tree Sue uploaded lists somebody other than uncle Joe as her father.

I'm told that her half-siblings originally had transparent profiles too, but when Sue Smith uploaded her profile, the half-siblings changed their privacy settings from completely transparent to completely anonymous. It seems that Sue Smith wants to be recognized, while her half-siblings don't want to recognize her. But in any case, all of these people spent $99 for the DNA kit, and they've all seen the same things I'm looking at. 

[Chum]

22 minutes ago, Analytics said:

Thanks for all of the feedback.

Here are some more details of this situation. "Uncle Joe" had a successful business and apparently left his "legitimate" kids an inheritance. I'm guessing "Sue Smith" wasn't in the will.

I'm told that her half-siblings originally had transparent profiles too, but when Sue Smith uploaded her profile, the half-siblings changed their privacy settings from completely transparent to completely anonymous. It seems that Sue Smith wants to be recognized, while her half-siblings don't want to recognize her.

For those arguing for privacy (not unreasonably), I don't see any secrets left to keep. Are there any reasons left to not reach out to her?

[BlueDreams]

5 hours ago, Analytics said:

Thanks for all of the feedback.

Here are some more details of this situation. "Uncle Joe" had a successful business and apparently left his "legitimate" kids an inheritance. I'm guessing "Sue Smith" wasn't in the will.

The relationship isn't a secret--not anymore. When you send your DNA to ancestry.com, they give you three privacy options. You can either be completely anonymous so that the existence of your DNA profile isn't publicly available, just make the initials of your name publicly available, or be completely transparent with your full name and your family tree. Sue Smith made her profile completely transparent. I was told that Sue Smith's mother never married, but the family tree Sue uploaded lists somebody other than uncle Joe as her father.

I'm told that her half-siblings originally had transparent profiles too, but when Sue Smith uploaded her profile, the half-siblings changed their privacy settings from completely transparent to completely anonymous. It seems that Sue Smith wants to be recognized, while her half-siblings don't want to recognize her. But in any case, all of these people spent $99 for the DNA kit, and they've all seen the same things I'm looking at. 

I'd probably be explicit that I don't want to step into family/legal drama, but that if she had questions about where she came from, I'd give her as much as you know. It sounds like the worst issues tied with finding out about one's genetics is likely not going to be a problem if the most immediate parties already figured it out. 

 

With luv,

BD

[The Nehor]

As someone who follows a thread on another board where people hunt down stories that are hilarious (from a distance) this is happening a lot.

If your parents freak out or strongly discourage someone from getting a test like this it is a pretty fair bet something happened.

I think my favorite was one where daughter came to her dad to tell him that mom cheated on him and finding out that they were swingers for a brief period and a condom broke. So she got to learn even more stuff she didn’t want to know.

[LoudmouthMormon]

11 hours ago, Analytics said:

I'm told that her half-siblings originally had transparent profiles too, but when Sue Smith uploaded her profile, the half-siblings changed their privacy settings from completely transparent to completely anonymous. It seems that Sue Smith wants to be recognized, while her half-siblings don't want to recognize her. But in any case, all of these people spent $99 for the DNA kit, and they've all seen the same things I'm looking at. 

"Hi Sue Smith, I'm so-and-so, and we are a close DNA match.  I believe I have some additional information for you about your biological father.  Feel free to contact me if you wish."

Pretty sure that's what I'd do in your shoes.