Earth: celestsial or telestial?

[Nofear]

D&C 88:25 "the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom,"
Elsewhere: the world we now live is telestial.

One interpretation is that the earth itself is living a celestial law* but the inhabitants on it are abiding more of a telestial order of things. But, I thought to ask those here their opinion that I may learn other perspectives.



* The earth obeys quantum mechanics (or something that quantum mechanics approximates) -- thus can we say quantum mechanics is a celestial law?   A tangential thought of no serious thought, consideration, or consequence at the moment.

[Fether]

40 minutes ago, Nofear said:

D&C 88:25 "the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom,"
Elsewhere: the world we now live is telestial.

One interpretation is that the earth itself is living a celestial law* but the inhabitants on it are abiding more of a telestial order of things. But, I thought to ask those here their opinion that I may learn other perspectives.



* The earth obeys quantum mechanics (or something that quantum mechanics approximates) -- thus can we say quantum mechanics is a celestial law?   A tangential thought of no serious thought, consideration, or consequence at the moment.

Just like how if I live a celestial law, I am still living in a Telestial world (generic use of the word ‘world’. A more accurate term may be ‘existence’). Everything we know is a telestial existence. If we live a higher law, we will receive a higher kingdom.

If you go one more verse, it clarifies this:

”25 And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law—
26 Wherefore, it shall be sanctified; yea, notwithstanding it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it.”

Edited August 10, 2021 by Fether

[carbon dioxide]

The earth does everything the Lord asks of it.  Obedience is the key.  Just as we can obey Celestial laws while remaining in this fallen world on this temporary basis, so can the earth.  The earth is simply following the same path to celestial glory at the same time as we are.

[JAHS]

22 minutes ago, Fether said:

1 hour ago, Nofear said:

D&C 88:25 "the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom,"
Elsewhere: the world we now live is telestial.

One interpretation is that the earth itself is living a celestial law* but the inhabitants on it are abiding more of a telestial order of things. But, I thought to ask those here their opinion that I may learn other perspectives.



* The earth obeys quantum mechanics (or something that quantum mechanics approximates) -- thus can we say quantum mechanics is a celestial law?   A tangential thought of no serious thought, consideration, or consequence at the moment.

Expand  

Just like how if I live a celestial law, I am still living in a Telestial world (generic use of the word ‘world’. A more accurate term may be ‘existence’). Everything we know is a telestial existence. If we live a higher law, we will receive a higher kingdom.

If you go one more verse, it clarifies this:

”25 And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law—
26 Wherefore, it shall be sanctified; yea, notwithstanding it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it.”

Kind of like what Jesus did. He lived a celestial law but still had to die and be resurrected into a glorified Celestial being like His Father.

[bOObOO]

2 hours ago, Nofear said:

D&C 88:25 "the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom,"
Elsewhere: the world we now live is telestial.

One interpretation is that the earth itself is living a celestial law* but the inhabitants on it are abiding more of a telestial order of things. But, I thought to ask those here their opinion that I may learn other perspectives.



* The earth obeys quantum mechanics (or something that quantum mechanics approximates) -- thus can we say quantum mechanics is a celestial law?   A tangential thought of no serious thought, consideration, or consequence at the moment.

Our Lord telling us the earth abides the law of a celestial kingdom tells us the earth is still doing what our Lord created it to do, and in the next statement our Lord is telling us the earth will continue to be used for our Lord's\ purposes.

Hard for me to imagine a planet our Lord created not doing what he created it to do.  Spin in orbit, governed by gravity, yeah, it is still doing that.  How could it not, I wonder.  I don't think anyone but our Lord could make it stop doing what it is doing.

[Kenngo1969]

Right now, the world is telestial.  As Satan loves to remind us, for now, at least, this is his kingdom.  We just live in it.     In the runup to Christ's coming and at His coming, it will become terrestrial, as everyone on the earth at that time must be able to abide at least terrestrial glory.  There will be terrestrial and celestial people on the earth after His coming.  Then, at the end of the Millennium, the earth will be cleansed again, and will become celestial.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Nofear said:

D&C 88:25 "the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom,"
Elsewhere: the world we now live is telestial.

One interpretation is that the earth itself is living a celestial law* but the inhabitants on it are abiding more of a telestial order of things. But, I thought to ask those here their opinion that I may learn other perspectives.



* The earth obeys quantum mechanics (or something that quantum mechanics approximates) -- thus can we say quantum mechanics is a celestial law?   A tangential thought of no serious thought, consideration, or consequence at the moment.

My understanding is that the general laws of this fallen earth currently only sustain mortality and telestial glory, but as a celestial world will someday sustain eternal life, exaltation and glory. In fulfilling its design for the plan of salvation, the earth acts according to celestial law (which entails all the estates of the plan of salvation, including this probationary state in a fallen condition), but the "acting" of element is without the agency possessed by spirits.

In addition to these general laws, which meet the needs of the least common denominator, God introduces higher laws to fulfil the design for the plan of salvation.

Edited August 10, 2021 by CV75

[bOObOO]

6 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Right now, the world is telestial.  As Satan loves to remind us, for now, at least, this is his kingdom.  We just live in it.     In the runup to Christ's coming and at His coming, it will become terrestrial, as everyone on the earth at that time must be able to abide at least terrestrial glory.  There will be terrestrial and celestial people on the earth at His coming.  Then, at the end of the Millennium, the earth will be cleansed again, and will become celestial.

Yes, I agree with those words, but they don't really do much to explain what those words mean.  Tell an average person this world is telestial and he or she will likely not know what you are talking about.  Same for telestial glory, or telestial law.  Most people don't know what those words mean, either.  So I tell them that they need to be a law-abiding citizen, wherever they live, if they want to endure the return of our Lord.  That at least gives them a clue of how good they should be.  In the Church we are taught the laws of celestial worlds, which are more stringent than those of a telestial world, and terrestrial is somehow a compromise between those 2 main levels.

[JLHPROF]

3 hours ago, Nofear said:

D&C 88:25 "the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom,"
Elsewhere: the world we now live is telestial.

One interpretation is that the earth itself is living a celestial law* but the inhabitants on it are abiding more of a telestial order of things. 

The earth is progressing towards celestialization.  It will one day be "resurrected" to a Celestial glory.  The earth has been redeemed from the fall by following the laws necessary for a Celestial Kingdom.

As long as its inhabitants remain fallen and refuse to follow Christ and a Celestial law they will remain Telestial.  When Christ comes to rule and every tongue acknowledges him as King it will be Terrestrial because Christ will rule but other beliefs will still be permitted.

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Nofear said:

D&C 88:25 "the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom,"
Elsewhere: the world we now live is telestial.

One interpretation is that the earth itself is living a celestial law* but the inhabitants on it are abiding more of a telestial order of things. But, I thought to ask those here their opinion that I may learn other perspectives.



* The earth obeys quantum mechanics (or something that quantum mechanics approximates) -- thus can we say quantum mechanics is a celestial law?   A tangential thought of no serious thought, consideration, or consequence at the moment.

Scientific paradigms do not work well with spiritual ones.

Mankind will never know how much God weighs,  and it is not relevant.

Fun to speculate, I know. Might as well read Tolkien.

Earth is now telestial but will become  celestial , a new heaven and a new earth 

Edited August 10, 2021 by mfbukowski

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, bOObOO said:

Yes, I agree with those words, but they don't really do much to explain what those words mean.  Tell an average person this world is telestial and he or she will likely not know what you are talking about.  Same for telestial glory, or telestial law.  Most people don't know what those words mean, either.  So I tell them that they need to be a law-abiding citizen, wherever they live, if they want to endure the return of our Lord.  That at least gives them a clue of how good they should be.  In the Church we are taught the laws of celestial worlds, which are more stringent than those of a telestial world, and terrestrial is somehow a compromise between those 2 main levels.

In Nofear's case, I didn't have that worry, though perhaps you know him better than I.

[pogi]

One does wonder how the earth could be anything other than terrestrial, yet that doesn't even seem to be an option here. 

Quote

Terrestrial:

of, on, or relating to the earth.

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by pogi

[OGHoosier]

The law of the celestial kingdom, in my opinion is simply "exists and acts in accordance with the will of God." Everything in the celestial kingdom seems characterized by its unity with the will of God - from the crystallized Urim and Thummim planet to the pristine righteousness and radiant glory all about. The celestial kingdom is a world where the problem of evil does not exist. All is in unity with the will of God. By that note, the earth is doing exactly what God intended - and thus it obeys the law of the celestial kingdom. 

However, the creatures scuttling around on its face have need a different kingdom for now, so telestial it is. 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

One does wonder how the earth could be anything other than terrestrial, yet that doesn't even seem to be an option here. 

 

Who's the god of this world? 

Yes, the god of this world. 

Now we will have somone say we worship Satan.   Can't win for losing 

[mfbukowski]

50 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

However, the creatures scuttling around on its face have need a different kingdom for now, so telestial it is. 

And some of us are crabbier than others.   😠🧐👾🦀

[pogi]

19 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Who's the god of this world? 

Yes, the god of this world. 

Now we will have somone say we worship Satan.   Can't win for losing 

Our God is the only God of this world that I have anything to do with.  There is an outcast demon that belongs to this world who fancies himself a self-appointed God - but he is no God.  

[mfbukowski]

25 minutes ago, pogi said:

Our God is the only God of this world that I have anything to do with.  There is an outcast demon that belongs to this world who fancies himself a self-appointed God - but he is no God.  

Ok.

Glad you clarified for those who might have misunderstood me, as I acknowledged, thanks

[bOObOO]

54 minutes ago, pogi said:

Our God is the only God of this world that I have anything to do with.  There is an outcast demon that belongs to this world who fancies himself a self-appointed God - but he is no God.  

God includes all who are the same kind of being we are, some good, some evil, some perfectly good as much as we can be perfectly good.  Satan/Lucifer is one of us and yes we do have something to do with him too.  I ignore him a lot.  He hates that.

[pogi]

10 minutes ago, bOObOO said:

God includes all who are the same kind of being we are, some good, some evil, some perfectly good as much as we can be perfectly good.  Satan/Lucifer is one of us and yes we do have something to do with him too.  I ignore him a lot.  He hates that.

I am no God.  A god in training perhaps.  I have only been ordained to become so through obedience.

Edited August 10, 2021 by pogi

[bOObOO]

1 minute ago, pogi said:

I am no God.  I have only been ordained to become so through obedience.

You are a child of a person who is the kind of being we refer to as God, ergo, you now have the potential to become like him (or her) because you are already that same kind of being.  

Parents reproduce to produce offspring, and the offspring and the parents are always the same kind of being.  Basic biology.

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am no God.

Be careful with that. Always better to err on the side of caution and claim divinity in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[pogi]

57 minutes ago, bOObOO said:

You are a child of a person who is the kind of being we refer to as God, ergo, you now have the potential to become like him (or her) because you are already that same kind of being.  

Parents reproduce to produce offspring, and the offspring and the parents are always the same kind of being.  Basic biology.

You are correct in that I have the "potential" to "become" like him.  That's it.  I'm no God yet.   

Is a caterpillar a butterfly?  Nope, it only has potential to become one.  Same thing with God.  We have some changes that we need to go through first.  We are still caterpillars, so to speak.  Not butterfly's.  

P.S. How do you know that the word "God" does not refer to an ordination/position/calling, instead of a type of being (which the some refer to as a "glorified man")?  In other words, all God's are men, but not all men are Gods.  

 

[Calm]

36 minutes ago, pogi said:

Is a caterpillar a butterfly?  Nope, it only has potential to become one.  Same thing with God.  We have some changes that we need to go through first.  We are still caterpillars, so to speak.  Not butterfly's.  

That would depend.  If by butterfly you were identifying a collection of species , it is that kind of butterfly or rather it belongs to   the Rhopalocera family*** classification.  If you are identifying the form, it is not.  I would guess most people hear butterfly, they are thinking of the form though.

***probably using the wrong term, clade appears to be the group placement; but I am not sure where that comes in the “species, genus, family, order, class, phylum, kingdom, domain” list….I think somewhere between family and genus…need to go back to biology class.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

The actual word in Adamic is "telecelestial" indicating the long distance it is from the celestial Kingdom

I have an Adamic /English dictionary, written for the latter days.  It's not in great shape.

Edited August 11, 2021 by mfbukowski

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

That would depend.  If by butterfly you were identifying a collection of species , it is that kind of butterfly or rather it belongs to   the Rhopalocera family*** classification.  If you are identifying the form, it is not.  I would guess most people hear butterfly, they are thinking of the form though.

***probably using the wrong term, clade appears to be the group placement; but I am not sure where that comes in the “species, genus, family, order, class, phylum, kingdom, domain” list….I think somewhere between family and genus…need to go back to biology class.

Caterpillars and butterflies may belong to the same family, just as men and God belong to the same family; but just as a caterpillar is not a butterfly, I am not a God (a glorified man).