Covid III: Delta Force

[Bob Crockett]

1 minute ago, Danzo said:

I go into court all the time with anectotal evidence.  

Nope.  Can't be used to prove a broad range of results.   

[Calm]

36 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Then people should just admit it and develop a different vaccine for the different virus. 

Where have they not admitted it?  Every time “Delta” is used, there is an admission it is a different virus. 
 

I understand they are working on others, but the current vaccines  still do wonders on the serious illness and deaths side of equation so it would be stupid and criminal to toss it because it is not as effective preventing infection with Delta.  And stupid to wait for most Imo for the perfect vaccine as by the time they get one, good chance another variation will have popped up. 
 

I assume this is going to end up like the flu given the speed of mutation, every year there will be a new vaccine they hope will cover the most common versions. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Calm

[Danzo]

6 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Nope.  Can't be used to prove a broad range of results.   

Usually you go into court to prove injury to a single person.

 

[Calm]

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

the current vaccines  still do wonders on the serious illness and deaths side of equation so it would be stupid and criminal to toss it because it is not as effective preventing infection with Delta.  

Here is one study showing effectiveness of two vaccines for preventing symptoms of infection is still very high with Delta though not as high as it was with Alpha. 
 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

If you go here, you can see there are a number of studies of possible new vaccines just in the US (assuming I am reading them correctly)…not all listed of course as I don’t see how to pull out new vaccine trials from studies of the current ones 

https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=Covid19&term=Vaccine+&cntry=US&state=&city=&dist=

Edited August 12, 2021 by Calm

[Bob Crockett]

20 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Usually you go into court to prove injury to a single person.

 

A case involving an auto accident usually does not require statistical science.  A case involving whether or not a vaccine was developed in a negligent manner requires statistical science.  In such a case you cannot offer evidence to show that Fred Brown died down the street from Covid after getting a vaccine is proof the vaccine was negligently developed.  Any competent lawyer understands this.  

Is there evidence of climate change?  Yes, statistical evidence proves it. 

Is there evidence that human activities have affected climate change.  No, statistical evidence does not prove this.

Is there statistical evidence that the Covid-19 vaccines lead to death?  No.  

[pogi]

50 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Hard to believe the statistics when you see people around you who are vaccinated getting the virus.  when you roll snake eyes over and over again, you start to wonder if the dice are loaded.

Also its extremely diffucult to believe that we have over a 70% vaccinated rate and the virus is spreading much faster than when no one was vaccinated. 

 

Look at the rates of hospitalizations and deaths in the vaccinated vs unvaccinated and tell me the vaccine isn’t of benefit.  Vaccines work in many ways, one way is to reduce severity of infection.  Make no mistake, the vaccines are working.  Any ICU nurse/doctor will testify to that.

[pogi]

48 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Usually you go into court to prove injury to a single person.

 

If only COVID injured a single person!

With the scale of COVID, anecdotal evidence is not terribly reliable.

Edited August 12, 2021 by pogi

[strappinglad]

If the first covid was the alpha variant and there is now a delta variant, what happened to beta and gamma ? Is there some rule about virus naming ? 

[pogi]

29 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Is there statistical evidence that the Covid-19 vaccines lead to death?  No.  

To be fair, there probably is.  All vaccines can lead to death. Mostly by anaphylaxis.  Usually at a rate of less than one in a million.  One must therefore compare the risk of death or serious injury from vaccine vs disease.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by pogi

[SeekingUnderstanding]

7 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

If the first covid was the alpha variant and there is now a delta variant, what happened to beta and gamma ? Is there some rule about virus naming ? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Beta_variant
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Gamma_variant

[Hamba Tuhan]

One of my American friends broke her own rule and re-posted the following from one her friends, who works as a nurse in Texas:

Quote

Today at work in our team huddle I learned of some very, VERY scary stuff. Then later saw first hand and I’m going to just be real with everyone. Prepare now. I’m not a sheep or whatever those of you claim when someone tries to warn you, I am first hand and personally telling you the things I’m seeing and watching my hospitals prepare for. It’s bad. Houston, who has one of the biggest medical centers in the country is in a BAD place. 106,000 employees, over 60 medical hospitals and facilities and THEY ARE FULL!! WE HAVE NO BEDS! WE HAVE NO STAFF FOR COVID UNITS!! We sent 2 people to ARKANSAS, another to OKLAHOMA, and 3 others to Illinois and Missouri. There aren’t beds and those were the closest places that had an empty bed. I watched someone get discharged and their O2 was in the mid 70’s. They had to make a bed for someone in the 50’s. It’s bad and it’s happening fast. Prepare yourself, get vaccinated because if you get COVID, it won’t be nearly as bad and you might survive but this is 110% worse than last year and school starts tomorrow. It’s only going to get worse. I’m absolutely broken by what I saw, witnessed, and the plans being made that you unfortunately will not ever get to hear or see unless the city tells you. Which they won’t because it will cause panic, and for good reason. Take care of your families guys, it’s going to be BAD.

 

[Calm]

55 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

If the first covid was the alpha variant and there is now a delta variant, what happened to beta and gamma ?

They are the lower achievers of the relatives…haven’t gotten to be center of attention like happens so much when there are drama queens in a family.  

Edited August 13, 2021 by Calm

[Bob Crockett]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

To be fair, there probably is.  All vaccines can lead to death. Mostly by anaphylaxis.  Usually at a rate of less than one in a million.  One must therefore compare the risk of death or serious injury from vaccine vs disease.

 

You prove my point.  And you don't understand the statistical method. 

[pogi]

32 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

You prove my point.  And you don't understand the statistical method. 

Ummm...I was trying to support your point.  

Have you not been reading my responses to him?

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Danzo said:

Then people should just admit it and develop a different vaccine for the different virus. 

Found this dated the 11th:

Quote

In a statement, Pfizer said it and BioNTech "expect to be able to develop and produce a tailor-made vaccine against that variant in approximately 100 days after a decision to do so, subject to regulatory approval

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html

[Raingirl]

4 hours ago, Danzo said:

Hard to believe the statistics when you see people around you who are vaccinated getting the virus.  when you roll snake eyes over and over again, you start to wonder if the dice are loaded.

Also its extremely diffucult to believe that we have over a 70% vaccinated rate and the virus is spreading much faster than when no one was vaccinated. 

 

It’s spreading amongst the unvaccinated. 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Is there evidence that human activities have affected climate change.  No, statistical evidence does not prove this.

I would recommend checking the latest IPCC report. With the new climate modeling techniques they are no longer using words such as “likely” when talking about humans causing climate change. They are using “unequivocal” and it looks like they have the data to back it up.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Danzo said:

Hard to believe the statistics when you see people around you who are vaccinated getting the virus.  when you roll snake eyes over and over again, you start to wonder if the dice are loaded.

Also its extremely diffucult to believe that we have over a 70% vaccinated rate and the virus is spreading much faster than when no one was vaccinated. 

 

Are you under the impression that most vaccines are 100% effective?

[Rain]

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Authorizes Additional Vaccine Dose for Certain Immunocompromised Individuals Other fully vaccinated individuals do not need an additional vaccine dose right now

 

Quote

Who might be immunocompromised or have a weakened immune system?

Examples of persons with weakened immune systems include those with HIV/AIDS; cancer and transplant patients who are taking certain immunosuppressive drugs; and those with inherited diseases that affect the immune system (e.g., congenital agammaglobulinemia, congenital IgA deficiency). The risk of developing severe disease may differ depending on each person’s degree of immune suppression. Following all the recommendations in this fact sheet can be a great personal burden, so consult with your healthcare provider to determine whether your medical condition makes it advisable to follow all of these recommendations.

 

[The Nehor]

18 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

One of my American friends broke her own rule and re-posted the following from one her friends, who works as a nurse in Texas:

 

This is what I am hearing as I follow the news on hospitals and it is not limited to just Texas.

[The Nehor]

If one of my nieces or nephews get sick with Covid or anything else I can take no comfort in the fact that it is unlikely they can get into an ICU anywhere in over a 500 mile radius.

Triage is already starting to take place. The death cultists are winning.

 

 

And I'm proud to be a Floridian
Where at least I know I'm free
And I ain't gonna wear no dumb mask
Or listen to Fauci.

And I proudly stand up
What's this pain
Wow, it hurts to breathe.

Cuz there ain't no doubt
I love this state
What's with this constant wheeze?

Edited August 13, 2021 by The Nehor

[Bob Crockett]

On 8/12/2021 at 8:57 PM, The Nehor said:

I would recommend checking the latest IPCC report. With the new climate modeling techniques they are no longer using words such as “likely” when talking about humans causing climate change. They are using “unequivocal” and it looks like they have the data to back it up.

I am not a climate change denier.  But I'd need to be given a specific cite to a specific report as to human impacts on climate change to believe it.   If it is there I'll change my tune.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

I am not a climate change denier.  But I'd need to be given a specific cite to a specific report as to human impacts on climate change to believe it.   If it is there I'll change my tune.

Have the whole thing.

https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg1/

[The Nehor]

Pretty big jump. It looks like Delta is more likely to hospitalize children. There is not enough info to be sure on ICU and death rates but it looks like their rates are up too.

[The Nehor]

Here is a better visual for the changing impact on children.