Status of church

[Rain]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

I think this completely is a policy of different mission presidents, but not dictated by Salt Lake from above. Many missions (including ours, Arizona Tempe) continues to feed them every day (except Monday). I think that extrapolating from this anecdotal experience is a mistake; I don't think there is any top-down direction on this.

If top-down direction to discontinue feeding missionaries were to come down, I think it would be a big mistake. The more member/missionary contact, the better. The less, the worse. 

 

Kind of?  It was all right in August/September that I was hearing from a lot of moms that it was changing in their children's missions.  So I think  something came from the top, I just don't know what.

[Chum]

14 minutes ago, Rain said:

Kind of?  It was all right in August/September that I was hearing from a lot of moms that it was changing in their children's missions.

Is there any kind of pattern to where the changes are happening?

15 minutes ago, Rain said:

I think  something came from the top, I just don't know what.

It could be local leaders are reacting to external forces, say COVID outbreaks - and are following some general guidelines laid out earlier.

[Chum]

To current missionary parents: Pretend your missionaries are in my ward. What could I, Mr. Member, do to ease some concerns you have?

[Rain]

13 minutes ago, Chum said:

Is there any kind of pattern to where the changes are happening?

It could be local leaders are reacting to external forces, say COVID outbreaks - and are following some general guidelines laid out earlier.

I couldn't tell you.  My son was coming home and we had a lot going on so I didn't pay much attention.  There may have been a pattern of it being in the US for the most part, but I couldn't say for sure.  It was obviously something talked about in my son's mission (Colorado) since he knew they were one of the exceptions.  I didn't see any connection to covid.  

edit: Like Tempe, they don't have the restriction in Mesa either and I haven't heard of it in any of the Phoenix area missions.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Rain

[Chum]

Just now, Rain said:

There may have been a pattern of it being in the US for the most part, but I couldn't say for sure.  It was obviously something talked about in my son's mission (Colorado) since he knew they were one of the exceptions.  I didn't see any connection to covid.

This seems to be the best info we have; I'm inclined to go with your take.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Kind of?  It was all right in August/September that I was hearing from a lot of moms that it was changing in their children's missions.  So I think  something came from the top, I just don't know what.

I think it's kind of a "contagious," trending thing that catches fire in certain pockets, but not in others. Like certain activity ideas for youth or Relief Society (which tend to spread even more today with things like Pinterest, social media, etc.). Not that mission presidents are getting mission ideas from Pinterest . . .  

I think there are just certain mission presidents, mostly stateside, who get certain ideas from each other and implement them (e.g., no tracting, no dinner appointments, etc.). It isn't top-down Church policy. 

[Amulek]

Here in the Dallas Texas East mission, missionaries are still allowed to eat with members - only they have start dinner no later than 5PM, which (given commute times) isn't really feasible for a lot of families here in the metroplex.

[Danzo]

In my Mission (Italy in the mid 90s) Eating with members and non members was limited to once a week. This was because a dinner in Italy was usually expected to be a three hour affair and after 3 hours of eating, we missionaries were incapable of doing anything other than trying to get back to the apartment. 

 

Here where I live, the missionaries are only supposed to have dinner appointments on weekends.  This was to give them more time during the evenings to do visits. That being said, every time the missionaries visit, we offer them something to eat and they accept. 

[Rain]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

I think it's kind of a "contagious," trending thing that catches fire in certain pockets, but not in others. Like certain activity ideas for youth or Relief Society (which tend to spread even more today with things like Pinterest, social media, etc.). Not that mission presidents are getting mission ideas from Pinterest . . .  

I think there are just certain mission presidents, mostly stateside, who get certain ideas from each other and implement them (e.g., no tracting, no dinner appointments, etc.). It isn't top-down Church policy. 

That could be, but this was all within a few days of each other and there were a whole lot of them at once.  If it wasn't all the sudden I would be thinking more like you.

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, Amulek said:

Here in the Dallas Texas East mission, missionaries are still allowed to eat with members - only they have start dinner no later than 5PM, which (given commute times) isn't really feasible for a lot of families here in the metroplex.

It wouldn’t have been feasible for me when I was working in downtown SLC. Five pm is too early to schedule evening events for most commuters. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

13 hours ago, bluebell said:

In my mission (which I think might by your mission as well), the sisters told us that missionaries cannot eat with members unless there is an investigator present.

I never have the missionaries in my home unless I have someone for them to teach. They were here last night to share a message with one of my non-member friends. Other times, it might be a less-active member or a recent convert.

One of my personal frustrations is when the missionaries are so 'busy' eating at the homes of members who just signed up on a roster at church that they don't have time to come 'round and teach my friends. They don't need food; they need teaching opportunities.

[bluebell]

17 hours ago, Amulek said:

Here in the Dallas Texas East mission, missionaries are still allowed to eat with members - only they have start dinner no later than 5PM, which (given commute times) isn't really feasible for a lot of families here in the metroplex.

It used to be like that here and it was awful and impractical.  

[bluebell]

10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

They don't need food; they need teaching opportunities.

Since they are human, it seems best just to acknowledge that they need both.

[MustardSeed]

10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I never have the missionaries in my home unless I have someone for them to teach. They were here last night to share a message with one of my non-member friends. Other times, it might be a less-active member or a recent convert.

One of my personal frustrations is when the missionaries are so 'busy' eating at the homes of members who just signed up on a roster at church that they don't have time to come 'round and teach my friends. They don't need food; they need teaching opportunities.

Sometimes the person who needs their message is me. I feed them, unapologetically.

[rongo]

This is also a swinging pendulum. Mission presidents and missions who ban meals (out of good intentions: more work, less downtime) end up doing a 180, and encouraging it ("Members need to get to know missionaries, and missionaries need to get to know members! It is time well-spent!"). These sorts of policies don't last forever. 

It's the same with the "no tracting; force the members to do their job!" missions (mostly stateside). They end up swinging back to "use all available means to find people" focuses, over time. 

[rongo]

On 12/14/2021 at 9:40 AM, Rain said:

So status in our area.  My daughter was sealed in the Gilbert temple on November 26th.  At that time they asked everyone attending wear a mask and everyone that I saw was wearing one. The temple wasn't busy at the time so I couldn't tell you if that was consistent throughout the day or not.

Did your daughter and her husband wear masks during the sealing (at the altar)? Just curious.  I'm assuming yes, but hoping that they didn't have to for their sealing. 

[Rain]

19 hours ago, rongo said:

Did your daughter and her husband wear masks during the sealing (at the altar)? Just curious.  I'm assuming yes, but hoping that they didn't have to for their sealing. 

Lol I had to ask her as I couldn't remember.  She wears it a lot for work etc, but she doesn't wear it at home so I just don't notice if she is wearing it or not.  I know her husband was wearing it while attending church with her before they married, but I suspect he rarely wears it elsewhere.  

So, no they didn't have to wear it for the ceremony.

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 12/16/2021 at 3:18 AM, bluebell said:

Since they are human, it seems best just to acknowledge that they need both.

Sure, but 'need' implies a lack of some kind, and as our missionaries have repeatedly assured me, they have zero lack of food. Their concern is that many members feed them as their sole engagement in 'missionary work'.

On 12/16/2021 at 3:25 AM, MustardSeed said:

Sometimes the person who needs their message is me.

Same! But in my situation, I have found it quite easy to 'return the favour' by making sure there is also someone else in my home to receive their message.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Sure, but 'need' implies a lack of some kind, and as our missionaries have repeatedly assured me, they have zero lack of food. Their concern is that many members feed them as their sole engagement in 'missionary work'.

Same! But in my situation, I have found it quite easy to 'return the favour' by making sure there is also someone else in my home to receive their message.

Would love this, but kind of hard at times in places in Utah and I assume in other places where very high density Saints or small towns with quite a few families.  Lots of nonmembers take offense if invited with missionaries as they don’t see it as a friendship thing even if you have been friends for awhile. There is no curiosity factor involved either to help. 

——

Are missionaries required to give lessons to a nonmember or is it allowed to just visit a time or two first?  I have had friends that don’t want to be taught by strangers, especially younger than they are, but considered if they could take their measure first. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Would love this, but kind of hard at times in places in Utah and I assume in other places where very high density Saints or small towns with quite a few families.

That doesn't describe most of the world, but yeah, that's specifically why I wrote, 'in my situation'. Remember, too, that missionaries teach all kinds of people, not just non-members. Our instruction is to provide them opportunities to meet/teach less-active members, recent converts, part-member families, and prospective elders as well.

Quote

Are missionaries required to give lessons to a nonmember or is it allowed to just visit a time or two first?

That's absolutely fine. When I served as a missionary in America, members often had us 'round just to meet their friends at first. I don't really do that much myself because my friends often find the missionaries quite restrained in comparison to me ... 

[MustardSeed]

13 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Sure, but 'need' implies a lack of some kind, and as our missionaries have repeatedly assured me, they have zero lack of food. Their concern is that many members feed them as their sole engagement in 'missionary work'.

Same! But in my situation, I have found it quite easy to 'return the favour' by making sure there is also someone else in my home to receive their message.

I “return the favor” be letting them know that missionary work is not just about baptism.  It’s about bringing souls to Christ.  If I need something they provide, and I often do- missionaries have several times changed my heart- then they have done the exact work they have been sent to do. IMO. 
 

You are consistently remarkable in your efforts as well.  Very impressive. 

[rongo]

11 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I “return the favor” be letting them know that missionary work is not just about baptism.  It’s about bringing souls to Christ.  If I need something they provide, and I often do- missionaries have several times changed my heart- then they have done the exact work they have been sent to do. IMO. 

Missionaries (good missionaries) also play a key role in holding wards/units together. This might sound like an exaggeration, but we all know "dynamite" missionaries whose presence and work helped Zion to flourish upon the hills where they were and when they were there. They inspire people, are looked up to, and contact and interaction with them changed and changes lives. When they visit members, participate in activities, and are simply "there," people make changes and progress. This goes far beyond just teaching the lessons and baptizing; it extends to home visits, meals, service, and participation in community and church life. And personally, I think that spending time with members is better than the online things they do to fill time --- or doing so at the church. Some see this as wasting time they could be spending in Facebook groups, but I think gaining members' trust through interaction is a better investment than the online stuff that is emphasized now. I think it's a better use of their time. 

As the pendulum swings, it inevitably swings back to "members need to get to know the missionaries as people, to trust them with their friends." When it's 100% business-like (only lessons, no meals, etc.), members don't usually get to know the missionaries and get to know their personalities and ways with people. It's much easier to arrange for them to meet with friends when people have had a lot of interaction with them. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Missionaries (good missionaries) also play a key role in holding wards/units together. This might sound like an exaggeration, but we all know "dynamite" missionaries whose presence and work helped Zion to flourish upon the hills where they were and when they were there. They inspire people, are looked up to, and contact and interaction with them changed and changes lives. When they visit members, participate in activities, and are simply "there," people make changes and progress. This goes far beyond just teaching the lessons and baptizing; it extends to home visits, meals, service, and participation in community and church life. And personally, I think that spending time with members is better than the online things they do to fill time --- or doing so at the church. Some see this as wasting time they could be spending in Facebook groups, but I think gaining members' trust through interaction is a better investment than the online stuff that is emphasized now. I think it's a better use of their time. 

As the pendulum swings, it inevitably swings back to "members need to get to know the missionaries as people, to trust them with their friends." When it's 100% business-like (only lessons, no meals, etc.), members don't usually get to know the missionaries and get to know their personalities and ways with people. It's much easier to arrange for them to meet with friends when people have had a lot of interaction with them. 

100 percent this! If the mission is often more for the missionary vs. the convert sometimes, it should be healthier for them. Is it no wonder that we have many psychologists/psychiatrists/therapists being called on missions to help the missionaries? (read this the other day). Their mental health is so very important, because it can last throughout their lives, the mental trauma brought on by their missions. Be it the shame game etc. (shame for not getting enough contacts/converts, or masturbation or ?), they need a better outlet.

I love reading my husband's scrapbooks (done by a girlfriend that he Dear Jane'd sadly). It shows the ward families that he hung out with in Mississippi. The fun they had, and it also showed the people he taught on his mission and how close they got as well. 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Tacenda

[MacGyver]

I'm in Mesa, Arizona and our ward has been back to two hour church for over a year now. Our ward even discontinued the zoom option for sacrament meeting several months ago and the sacrament has now been moved back to the middle of the meeting. 

A small percentage of the ward still wears masks and the bishopric and stake presidency wear masks on the stand but nowhere else. The priests wear rubber gloves while preparing the sacrament, but no masks. 

Otherwise we're essentially back to normal in every way. Hymn books are back in the pews. Mutual is normal. Young men are going camping and hiking. We had a trunk or treat and Christmas party. All the usual stuff. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by MacGyver

[Duncan]

Here wearing a mask is the law of the land. Last year a ward here got a warning from a health inspector because their doofus Bishop wasn't following the rules. Last Sunday this guy, who doesn't ever wear a mask, wanted to pass the Sacrament and he was told nope, no mask no passing sacrament and so they got someone else. With our temple open house a few months ago now the temple policy-based on following the law, was if someone didn't want to wear a mask in the temple for the tour, was "nice to see you but goodbye" Now with omicron coming our province is curtailing activities again, so church could go back to zoom again-which is fine in the winter anyways! But it's the unvaccinated getting sick and not the hospitals are filling up and people are burning out and quitting and they can't handle the load. The attitude seems to be if people won't get vaccinated and they get sick then let them get sick and whatever happens happens-you made your bed so to speak.