Should Elder Uchtdorf step down?

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Given the history of unbalanced sexual harassment in the past (how many men have been subjected to catcalls when walking down a street? I have yet to meet a woman who hasn’t; how many men get groped...no doubt some, but percentage wise thinking likely women ‘win’ that contest based on reports...though men don’t tend to report harassment and assault out of embarrassment just like women, so actual numbers hard to guess), high sensitivity on the part of women is quite understandable, imo.  Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t work on removing any comments that suggest objectification no matter who is the target, but it makes sense that those who have been harassed in the past are more responsive and assertive about stopping similar comments.  
 

If I find out Mustard Seed has been wolf whistling men walking down the street or goosing them on the subway, my opinion will dramatically change about her...but I think it unlikely.  She hasn’t made a habit of such comments, I believe this is the only one in fact.  

Effect strength => [unstoppable] | Effect range => [2 miles] | Effect duration => [1 year]

[california boy]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

When did that happen?  And what "religion" are you referencing here?  From Pew Research in 2016:

It looks like there are healthy doses of political diversity in most religious groups.

In 2007 Sen. Harry Reid said: "My faith and political beliefs are deeply intertwined. I am a Democrat because I am a Mormon, not in spite of it."  We need to allow everyone room to say the same thing about their individual political views.  

My sense is that we started going in "a bad direction" after the 2000 election.  Pres. Bush was "selected," not "elected."  He was, in some quarters, never legitimately the POTUS.  Then the tables turned in 2008 when Pres. Obama took office, except that the pretext for refusing recognition/legitimacy was about his birth certificate and other absurdities.  Then we got 2016, and the tables turned again, and the pretext was, well, I'm not sure.  Sheer disbelief?  And then in 2020 we went back to the "stolen election" theory again.

Thanks,

-Smac

I think you might want to reread my post since I specifically said when religion was politicalized.

By religion I mean Christians in general.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

I sense that some men are just jealous. Elder Uchtdorf’s wife is very attractive too. There. Equality. 

It took awhile for my husband to embrace his baldness, but given his coloring and head shape I don’t think him being a ‘Silver Fox’ would look as nice to me as his bald and bearded look, which I enjoy very much and I am very grateful he got the job at UVU so he could keep the beard.  
 

I am trying to think of ways this comment could be interpreted as inappropriate, I am seeing it in the context of his beard is one of many things I love about him (he just called the tax accountant to ask about my problem with my dad’s estate because he knows it was freaking me a bit...didn’t want to tell my brother the executor the bad news or my siblings who need the money, not just want it like me....when he told me, it made me cry it was so thoughtful) so it does not appear to be objectification to me, but if anyone is thinking it is inappropriate, I would be curious to know. It is not like I am asking others to consider how hot he is....I see that as very different than saying one loves how one spouse looks.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Calm

[ttribe]

3 hours ago, Rivers said:

Doesn’t everyone have a favorite?

I'm just wondering why you have to find a new favorite within the context of the situation with Edler Uchtdorf?  I read your comment to mean he used to be your favorite, but now isn't.

[MustardSeed]

I wonder what part of my statement about Elder U being handsome and that we need "more not less" is offensive.  Is it offensive in and of itself?  Is it offensive because he's a general authority and we are uncomfortable with church men being seen as anything but a general authority?  Is it because if a man commented on a woman president as beautiful that there would be offense taken? Or is it the suggestion that the others are not attractive so we need more?  

I don't think I've ever catcalled a human in my life.  I'm not even flirtatious.  Never have been.  But handsome is handsome, beauty is beauty, and lovely is lovely.  I'll take more over less any day. 

[AtlanticMike]

15 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I wonder what part of my statement about Elder U being handsome and that we need "more not less" is offensive.  Is it offensive in and of itself?  Is it offensive because he's a general authority and we are uncomfortable with church men being seen as anything but a general authority?  Is it because if a man commented on a woman president as beautiful that there would be offense taken? Or is it the suggestion that the others are not attractive so we need more?  

I don't think I've ever catcalled a human in my life.  I'm not even flirtatious.  Never have been.  But handsome is handsome, beauty is beauty, and lovely is lovely.  I'll take more over less any day. 

To me it's not offensive at all. If you catcall me I would wink at you then probably blow you a kiss😘. I would even let you pinch my butt if you wanted to. Ooops did I just go to far? Sorry🤣. Elder U is a good looking dude, you have a good eye.

 

 

 

You could say stuff like this⬆️ 20 years ago and people would laugh, not anymore, it's a shame

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I am trying to think of ways this comment could be interpreted as inappropriate

Anyone who thinks so would most definitely be offended by many passages in the Bible that praise certain men’s handsomeness. Those naughty scribes!

[Glenn101]

4 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Anyone who thinks so would most definitely be offended by many passages in the Bible that praise certain men’s handsomeness. Those naughty scribes!

Especially The Song of Solomon.

 

[Calm]

56 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I wonder what part of my statement about Elder U being handsome and that we need "more not less" is offensive.  Is it offensive in and of itself?  Is it offensive because he's a general authority and we are uncomfortable with church men being seen as anything but a general authority?  Is it because if a man commented on a woman president as beautiful that there would be offense taken? Or is it the suggestion that the others are not attractive so we need more?  

I don't think I've ever catcalled a human in my life.  I'm not even flirtatious.  Never have been.  But handsome is handsome, beauty is beauty, and lovely is lovely.  I'll take more over less any day. 

I think nowadays commenting on personal appearance when not relevant is wise because way too often it is offensive as it can be sexual objectification of others. And way too often the offenders justify their too far comments by pointing to others and saying they are doing the same thing...even when it is not. 
 

I do not think what you said was offensive, just wiser not to make comments like that. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Calm

[AtlanticMike]

48 minutes ago, Calm said:

Just wiser not to make comments like that. 

I believe it's just the opposite. What mustardSeed said was positive, it was a compliment, if she thinks he's handsome there's nothing wrong with saying it. If mustardseed thinks there should be more handsome men up there, if that's her opinion, she should feel free to say it. I think women should be able to express their opinion.

 

By the way, I think sister Elaine Dalton is very pretty, I've always had a crush on her. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

To me it's not offensive at all. If you catcall me I would wink at you then probably blow you a kiss😘. I would even let you pinch my butt if you wanted to. Ooops did I just go to far? Sorry🤣. Elder U is a good looking dude, you have a good eye.

 

 

 

You could say stuff like this⬆️ 20 years ago and people would laugh, not anymore, it's a shame

 

20 years ago I can assure you that a lot of that laughter was of the nervous “I hope he doesn’t rape me” kind.

[halconero]

It is interesting reading through the comments on this article. One thing that comes up repeatedly is abortion, with members claiming it is the most important issue to them, and claiming such for the Church generally.

I can understand why some feel that way on a personal level, but am puzzled on the premium they place on it with regards to the most “Church-aligned” position or issue. There are other issues, including refugee resettlement, drone warfare, welfare (a non-exhaustive list) etc that one might feel are more important as it pertains to their morals, ethics, or Gospel orientation, which might find themselves land differently on a candidate and I wouldn’t blame them, especially when the Church does not hand out a voting guide.

[Calm]

7 hours ago, Amulek said:

Mine too. And, on a completely unrelated note, I am now strongly considering getting a subway pass... 

 

I love to finish the day on a laugh.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, halconero said:

It is interesting reading through the comments on this article. One thing that comes up repeatedly is abortion, with members claiming it is the most important issue to them, and claiming such for the Church generally.

I can understand why some feel that way on a personal level, but am puzzled on the premium they place on it with regards to the most “Church-aligned” position or issue. There are other issues, including refugee resettlement, drone warfare, welfare (a non-exhaustive list) etc that one might feel are more important as it pertains to their morals, ethics, or Gospel orientation, which might find themselves land differently on a candidate and I wouldn’t blame them, especially when the Church does not hand out a voting guide.

I am staunchly against subway fare discounts for war widows. Useless layabouts trying to game the system to their own advantage.

I am in favor of the resolution restoring the Hapsburg dynasty to their rightful place as rulers of most of Europe.

I am undecided about the proposal requiring mandatory gay marriages for everyone.

[Scott Lloyd]

9 hours ago, katherine the great said:

I sense that some men are just jealous. Elder Uchtdorf’s wife is very attractive too. There. Equality. 

Since I’m the only male here who has mentioned it, this comes across as a dig against me. I deny and resent it. 

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Since I’m the only male here who has mentioned it, this comes across as a dig against me. I deny and resent it. 

Yes, but why would you deny it unless you are hiding something?

[Scott Lloyd]

7 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I wonder what part of my statement about Elder U being handsome and that we need "more not less" is offensive.  Is it offensive in and of itself?  Is it offensive because he's a general authority and we are uncomfortable with church men being seen as anything but a general authority?  Is it because if a man commented on a woman president as beautiful that there would be offense taken? Or is it the suggestion that the others are not attractive so we need more?  

I don't think I've ever catcalled a human in my life.  I'm not even flirtatious.  Never have been.  But handsome is handsome, beauty is beauty, and lovely is lovely.  I'll take more over less any day. 

 I think a comment on physical attractiveness — especially at the implied expense of his associates among the General Authorities — is not in keeping with his high and holy calling. I’ve thought that before when I’ve seen similar comments about him from others. (And, for the record, I take exception to Atlantic Mike’s remark about Sister Dalton on the same grounds.)
 

But as I said, my main point was to highlight a double standard that I perceive in society. Calm has addressed that, and I take her point, but I still think there’s a double standard. 

[Scott Lloyd]

16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, but why would you deny it unless you are hiding something?

Buzz off. 

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Buzz off. 

Can’t. Stupid Word of Wisdom.

[mfbukowski]

9 hours ago, katherine the great said:

Apparently only handsome men. 

Yes, well it IS a trial, but that is only a part of earth life.

9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

This is a bit outdated obviously but I found this interesting.  It's also based on official party affiliation, not voting habits.
I guess we know Uchtdorf is probably a Democrat.

 

I just wonder how "The Reds" became Republican.  I guess they just followed my example.

I usta carry my little red book by Mao and read it every day and now do the same with the BOM.

And so, now, I am still a Red!

It's these changeless principles that bring one comfort and peace! 😊

[mfbukowski]

Just now, mfbukowski said:

Yes, well it IS a trial, but that is only a part of earth life.

I just wonder how "The Reds" became Republican.  I guess they just followed my example.

I usta carry my little red book by Mao and read it every day and now do the same with the BOM.

And so, now, I am still a Red!

It's these changeless principles that bring one comfort and peace! 😊

 

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I just wonder how "The Reds" became Republican.  I guess they just followed my example.

I usta carry my little red book by Mao and read it every day and now do the same with the BOM.

And so, now, I am still a Red!

It's these changeless principles that bring one comfort and peace! 😊

One should never forget their heritage.

 

[AtlanticMike]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think a comment on physical attractiveness — especially at the implied expense of his associates among the General Authorities — is not in keeping with his high and holy calling. I’ve thought that before when I’ve seen similar comments about him from others. (And, for the record, I take exception to Atlantic Mike’s remark about Sister Dalton on the same grounds.)

Scott. I took the time to look you up, if your the Scott Loyd I found on Deseret news, guess what, your a good looking dude! You have great dimples and a wonderful smile. Great tie by the way. The top of your head was chopped off in the picture,  but it looked like you have a great head of hair also, just like Elder U. If this compliment makes anyone uncomfortable while reading it, then the worlds worse off than I thought. 

       By the way Scott, if you would like more compliments and cant find anyone else to speak up, PM me, I'll build you up like we use to do in the old days. It doesn't bother me giving someone a compliment, I'm secure in my manhood, I sweat testosterone 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

 

PS.  If anyone else wants to be complimented because they're feeling down, hit me up, I'll tell you how great you are, I have no problem making someone feel special. 

https://youtu.be/

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[MustardSeed]

It's certainly not my intention to offend. I don't know that I personally will change much off this board,  but I do understand the complexities of today's society and of course being a woman I know what it means to be objectified (or at least having once been a young woman - today I'm ignored which has its pros and cons).

I will apologize for offending you Scott and will no longer mention appearance on this board unless it is absolutely clear that it is appropriate to do so.  My apologies to anyone else who was upset by my comment. For what it's worth, I'm not attracted to any general authority or women authorities.  Never have been.   

Back to the topic at hand.  No I do not think the authority in question should be removed, and IMO the whole issue is political. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by MustardSeed

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

today I'm ignored

This is exactly why I say what I say. There's not a women on this earth that should be ignored!! All women are beautiful inside and out. 

       A few years ago one of my daughters was having a hard time in school, she was being picked on by a boy and one of his friends. The boy actually liked her but for some reason chose to pick on her to show his interest in her. I talked to the principal, didnt work. Talked to teachers and asked if they could keep an eye out for her and tell us what was happening with the situation, still didn't work, I understand why, teachers have a lot on their plate, it's a tough job. So,I talked to his parents, things changed for a couple of weeks but started up again and it became worse. Her self esteem was shot, 100% gone, she was depressed. So, I took her out of school for two weeks and she spent everyday with me at work cleaning up trash.  I would text my guys before pulling up to a job site and ask them to shower her with praises and tell her how beautiful she was throughout the day. I even called a couple salesman before I went into a store with her and asked them to do the same. By the beginning of the second week riding around with me she said "dad, you can tell them to stop now, I get." 

      In my opinion, depression and low self esteem is on the rise in America. People are scared to compliment each other, psychologically that can be detrimental to mental health. Most men dont know what to say, so they shut up just to play safe so not to offend. I tell the women in life they're beautiful and are my  Queens, everyday single day. I will never stop. Even in ten years when it might quite possibly be a jailable offense.

  Oh, by the way MustardSeed, I didnt write this for a response. I wrote so people read it.

    

Edited March 16, 2021 by AtlanticMike