Should Elder Uchtdorf step down?

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Absolutely brilliant! Thanks!

No problem, that video is one of my absolute favorites as it captures a lot of the pathos of Russian history and can make me laugh. Better then "War and Peace" as it only has the pathos and just WILL NOT END!

[Calm]

15 hours ago, Vanguard said:

It is not me to never compliment another - that would be too much of a sacrifice of the best parts of myself. : )

The important thing is if the intent is to help others feel better and not just to feel better about yourself, then the focus should be on their feelings and reactions, not on your own.  If you are doing that, this is great.
 

If you are walking away thinking of how good that compliment to someone else made you feel rather than thinking about how the person you complimented responded (and not in something like ‘I made them smile’, but more ‘that tension in their forehead and shoulders seems a little less’), then you likely aren’t helping as much as you hoped. 
 

Thinking you have a right or duty to push people to feel ‘good’ is not helpful. Trivializing their negative feelings is not going to help people process and move on.  At most it delays the process, at worst it derails it and the person feels ashamed of their feelings and tries to suppress them.

Showing people you value how they really feel, that you want to know the reality and not just see a happy facade so you can be relieved there is nothing else you need to do to help helps convey the message that you value them as an individual, who they are and not just who you want or need them to be for you. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Calm

[AtlanticMike]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

The important thing is if the intent is to help others feel better and not just to feel better about yourself, then the focus should be on their feelings and reactions, not on your own. 
 

If you are walking away thinking of how good that compliment to someone else made you feel rather than thinking about how the person you complimented responded (and not in something like ‘I made them smile’, but more ‘that tension in their forehead and shoulders seems a little less’), then you likely aren’t helping as much as you hoped. 
 

Thinking you have a right or duty to push people to feel ‘good’ is not helpful. Trivializing negative feelings is not going to help people process and move on.  At most it delays the process, at worst it derails it and the person feels ashamed of their feelings and tries to suppress them.

Showing people you value how they really feel, that you want to know the reality and not just see a happy facade so you can be relieved there is nothing else you need to do to help helps convey the message that you value them as an individual, who they are and not just who you want or need them to be for you. 

You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. The young women in this video is wise beyond her years. 

 

 

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

You guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be

And here you are telling women in this thread to their faces how they should think and feel about their own safety, trivializing our responses, insisting that we don’t have the right to be concerned.  This does not increase my trust in your ability to determine when you should be handing out compliments. 
 

And if you are not intending to send that message, then you should start allowing us the right to say and respond as we will.  It doesn’t harm you to give us that right. It can harm us if we choose to give it away because we are worried about hurting someone’s feelings. 

[AtlanticMike]

Christ would approve this video. It's one of my favorite. 

 

 

[mfbukowski]

On 3/15/2021 at 12:52 AM, The Nehor said:

Wrong.

On the other hand we might be "at the beginning of the last days" which really doesn't mean much.  Everyone can believe in that one!  They have been believing it continuously since 33 AD, and who's to say they are wrong? 

In the unlikely event that someone would ask me if we are in the beginning of the last days, I would ask them what they believed and then just agree with them.  

Why argue about what is in principle unknowable? 

Sometimes understanding the ambiguity of ideas and interpretations enables discussions with zealots without lying about anything.

If something is unknowable then everyone is right!

I believe that the next yet undiscovered species will be a fish.  Wanna argue about THAT? 

But before that we have to argue about what "undiscovered" means....   it's a never ending  loop...

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by mfbukowski

[Calm]

It doesn’t make sense to say in one breath you are all about helping a person to increase self esteem and confidence and in the next tell them they are wrong and trivialize their response.  The message sent with that is not to trust themselves.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Calm

[The Nehor]

13 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Christ would approve this video. It's one of my favorite. 

So now are you trying to shut people up by claiming Christ is specifically on your side.

And I thought I was arrogant.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So now are you trying to shut people up by claiming Christ is specifically on your side.

And I thought I was arrogant.

I wonder how much of the recordings taken of people’s responses ended up not being included in all these posted videos because they didn’t convey the message being promoted. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Calm

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

I wonder how much of the recordings taken of people’s responses ended up not being included in all these posted videos because they didn’t convey the message being promoted. 

One of the cringiest things I have ever endured was an older guy insisting my friend (a girl) smile for him as he is sure she has a beautiful smile. We were teenagers and were out to see a movie to cheer her up as her pet had just died. Looking back I wish I had told the guy off or punched him.

[MustardSeed]

Slightly off topic but I guess the original question has been adequately answered.

 

The reality of threat vs compliment is nuanced.  Every situation is different.  Every receiver of the same message will receive it through the lens of their own experience.  Hashing out here whether or not women do or should appreciate being told they are beautiful is rather pointless because the answer is "it depends on a lot of things."  

Good luck out there folks.  Life is messy. 

[AtlanticMike]

31 minutes ago, Calm said:

And here you are telling women in this thread to their faces how they should think and feel about their own safety, trivializing our responses, insisting that we don’t have the right to be concerned.  This does not increase my trust in your ability to determine when you should be handing out compliments. 

I went back and read 21 hours of my post, I never told women how they should think and feel about their safety. I haven't said one thing negative today. It's all been about offering people compliments and making them happy. Why does that make you upset?

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

One of the cringiest things I have ever endured was an older guy insisting my friend (a girl) smile for him as he is sure she has a beautiful smile. We were teenagers and were out to see a movie to cheer her up as her pet had just died. Looking back I wish I had told the guy off or punched him.

That likely wouldn’t have helped in most cases...though perhaps your friend is someone who would have appreciated that.  In most cases unless the girl/woman specifically tells him “no” or to get lost, I would suggest simply helping her walk away as giving aggressors attention too often increases the likelihood of more aggression. If walking away was not possible, drawing his attention to other things, to change the subject probably would have been appreciated. 

Unfortunately women and girls have too often been given the message it is their fault if there is trouble (like curfews for women in areas where rapes have occurred rather than curfews for men or everyone) and they feel worse if there is conflict.   Take your cue from your female friends in the future. You can even ask beforehand how she would like you to respond if anything like that happens, sharing that it occurred in the past and you felt it better to be prepared or something along those lines. Some women will want to handle it themselves, some will want a team effort, some will want you to act as backup if it gets aggressive, some will need conflict to be avoided as much as possible.
 

Might be of value however to talk to anyone being aggressive privately if you know them well enough. With strangers, you run the risk of provoking or rewarding their behaviour by giving them attention for it. 

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I never told women how they should think and feel about their safety.

That you believe you haven’t been is the fundamental problem here. 

Because you are being nice and trying to be helpful means we shouldn’t question your ideas but accept them  

You are telling us we are wrong to question compliments.  That it is simple and we are making it complicated. This sends the message we should not trust our own responses, but that yours should be more important to us.  You have more insight and wisdom than we do.

This cultural behaviour (it is unfortunately not uncommon) leads to women not trusting their instincts, being too worried about hurting some nice guy’s feelings.  
 

While this undermines self esteem, a worst result can be eventually a woman accepts offers of help from the wrong guy when her gut tells her “No, no, no!” and ends up raped or dead. If you need me to posts examples of women letting neighbours or even strangers into their home because they offered to carry groceries or they felt obligated after a date when the other suggested they walk them to their door, etc I can get them. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Calm

[katherine the great]

14 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Yes, well it IS a trial, but that is only a part of earth life.

Hang in there my friend. 😂

[AtlanticMike]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

That you believe you haven’t been is the fundamental problem here. 

Again, what did I say today? To me, those videos are uplifting and they're uplifting to my girls. Like I said, not everyone has to think the same.

Edited March 16, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[AtlanticMike]

38 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So now are you trying to shut people up by claiming Christ is specifically on your side.

And I thought I was arrogant.

Nope not at all.

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

That you believe you haven’t been is the fundamental problem here. 

Because you are being nice and trying to be helpful means we shouldn’t question your ideas but accept them  

You are telling us we are wrong to question compliments.  That it is simple and we are making it complicated. This sends the message we should not trust our own responses, but that yours should be more important to us.  You have more insight and wisdom than we do.

This cultural behaviour (it is unfortunately not uncommon) leads to women not trusting their instincts, being too worried about hurting some nice guy’s feelings.  
 

While this undermines self esteem, a worst result can be eventually a woman accepts offers of help from the wrong guy when her gut tells her “No, no, no!” and ends up raped or dead. If you need me to posts examples of women letting neighbours or even strangers into their home because they offered to carry groceries or they felt obligated after a date when the other suggested they walk them to their door, etc I can get them. 

I had my wife read this thread just to make sure I'm not going crazy. I cant tell you exactly what she said because it's to political, but she did say you dont speak for all women, just like I shouldn't speak for all men, which I do sometimes and it's wrong. 

    My mom lived here entire life never hearing one single complement from her dad. He couldn't bring himself to say anything positive, apparently it wasn't in him. My wife said she might of heard positive praise a handful of times from her dad. My daughter has been on this earth exactly 8527 days, if you include the 8 months of me talking to her while she was inside my wife, I've probably told her she's beautiful, special, smart, intelligent, kind ,caring  atleast 20,000 times, that's her number, I just asked her. 

    Everytime I said something positive, you countered it with something negative.  You and I have a completely different view on life and that's ok. We are going to keep living life while viewing it through the lense of positivity though. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 3/13/2021 at 2:14 PM, juliann said:

That he gave an explanation, it was satisfactory, it doesn't matter, and I'll bet your dad is a republican.

Wow, I don’t think that is the issue, do you? Harsh! 

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

she did say you dont speak for all women,

Of course. What I am saying is you should ask women what they want rather than assume it.

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Scott. I took the time to look you up, if your the Scott Loyd I found on Deseret news, guess what, your a good looking dude! You have great dimples and a wonderful smile. Great tie by the way. The top of your head was chopped off in the picture,  but it looked like you have a great head of hair also, just like Elder U. If this compliment makes anyone uncomfortable while reading it, then the worlds worse off than I thought. 

       By the way Scott, if you would like more compliments and cant find anyone else to speak up, PM me, I'll build you up like we use to do in the old days. It doesn't bother me giving someone a compliment, I'm secure in my manhood, I sweat testosterone 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

 

PS.  If anyone else wants to be complimented because they're feeling down, hit me up, I'll tell you how great you are, I have no problem making someone feel special. 

https://youtu.be/

 

Mike, I can’t agree with your approach about making unsolicited and cringeworthy remarks to perfect strangers, but I do thank you for being a lightning rod. I made a comment that I sensed from the outset would not be kindly received by some here. Surely enough, the jackals were starting to circle. Then you came loping by and drew them off. Well executed!

Edited March 17, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[AtlanticMike]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Mike, I can’t agree with your approach about making unsolicited and cringeworthy remarks to perfect strangers, but I do thank you for being a lightning rod. I made a remark that I sensed from the outset would not be kindly received by some here. Surely enough, the jackals were starting to circle. Then you came loping by and drew them off. Well executed!

😁 

[AtlanticMike]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

Of course. What I am saying is you should ask women what they want rather than assume it.

I wont give you any compliments  unless you want me to so let's end it there, what you say?  I like talking to you.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I like talking to you.

I would prefer if you would also ‘listen’ to my responses rather than making arguments against stuff I didn’t say. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Calm

[AtlanticMike]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

I would prefer if you would also ‘listen’ to my responses rather than making arguments against stuff I didn’t say. 

I want you to know its really hard for me not to give you a compliment right now, but out of respect for you, I'll just say, yes, I'll try to "listen" to you better. Now pleeeeaaassse, let's end this. Watcha say? Please have the last word, it's all you.