Nofear Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 I decided this was better not on my facebook wall, but, gosh dang it I'm feeling saucy and I wanted to say it somewhere. But seriously, no politics. Here the post is mostly about the myopia of the critics of the Church. Quote 1.9 Trillion dollar relief bill. That's approximately $5750 for every man woman and child in the U.S. And yet, the bill only calls for $1400 for most, but not all, of the population. With some guesstimation, it seems the hand outs are less than 30% of the bill. If 100 billion can permanently end child hunger in the US (it can't), what in the heck is this bill's problem?! Mostly random internet example criticizing the Church's 100 billion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf0jpruvEJE&t=390s Anyway, I expect more logic from the critics of the Church. Well, no, I don't. But wouldn't it be nice! 1
Bernard Gui Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 It’s a mystery beyond human understanding. There is no way to account accurately that amount of money.
Tacenda Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 If this comment from Betthany Kay is true, I'm all for it. And I believe the church might be too. "Did you know if the Mormon Church could spare just 20 of their 100 Billion, they could provide access to clean water for the entire planet and still have 80 Billion leftover? www.charitywater.org"
Popular Post SteveO Posted March 7, 2021 Popular Post Posted March 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tacenda said: If this comment from Betthany Kay is true, I'm all for it. And I believe the church might be too. "Did you know if the Mormon Church could spare just 20 of their 100 Billion, they could provide access to clean water for the entire planet and still have 80 Billion leftover? www.charitywater.org" Man...that doesn’t sound right. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1B812E Yep. 5
InCognitus Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tacenda said: If this comment from Betthany Kay is true, I'm all for it. And I believe the church might be too. "Did you know if the Mormon Church could spare just 20 of their 100 Billion, they could provide access to clean water for the entire planet and still have 80 Billion leftover? www.charitywater.org" Who says they don't do that already? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints - Clean Water Not to mention other activities, like this: Latter-day Saint Charities Commits US$20 Million in Support of UNICEF’s Global COVID-19 Response 4
Tacenda Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, InCognitus said: Who says they don't do that already? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints - Clean Water Not to mention other activities, like this: Latter-day Saint Charities Commits US$20 Million in Support of UNICEF’s Global COVID-19 Response I'm sure they are, just liked that 20 billion could take care of the water everywhere. But like SteveO mentioned it doesn't sound right. In my comments I said if she is right that would be nice. 9 minutes ago, SteveO said: Man...that doesn’t sound right. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1B812E Yep. Thanks SteveO, I'll post this on her youtube and see what she has to say and if she does reply, I'll let you know.
CV75 Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 51 minutes ago, Tacenda said: If this comment from Betthany Kay is true, I'm all for it. And I believe the church might be too. "Did you know if the Mormon Church could spare just 20 of their 100 Billion, they could provide access to clean water for the entire planet and still have 80 Billion leftover? www.charitywater.org" Are those just one-way tickets and one drink?
Popular Post Robert F. Smith Posted March 7, 2021 Popular Post Posted March 7, 2021 24 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I'm sure they are, just liked that 20 billion could take care of the water everywhere. But like SteveO mentioned it doesn't sound right. In my comments I said if she is right that would be nice. Thanks SteveO, I'll post this on her youtube and see what she has to say and if she does reply, I'll let you know. There are many charitable foundations, such as the Gates Foundation (run by Bill Gates and his wife), and LDS Philanthropies, and The Carter Center (run by Pres Carter and Emory Univ), etc., which are all non-governmental charitable organizations (NGOs), spending billions of dollars each year on various projects to help the poor worldwide. Many of them don't just give handouts, but rather attempt to help people help themselves on a permanent basis. Clean water is one issue that is dealt with, and vaccinations against many contagious diseases is another. The Carter Center has focused on eliminating the Guinea Worm. Many governmental organizations do similar things worldwide. The LDS Church has always exceeded the per capita donation levels of any other church, and LDS humanitarian spending is smart and strategic. The LDS tithing, fast offerings, and humanitarian donations from members are very carefully applied so as not to be wasted. Critics of the LDS Church philanthropies just don't realize that the LDS are far more effective in the long run, and are punching way above their weight level. Our efforts deserve praise not calumny. We are way ahead in the game. In other words, we got game; the critics don't. 10
Popular Post The Nehor Posted March 8, 2021 Popular Post Posted March 8, 2021 The numbers to end world hunger or provide clean water to everyone and the like are largely manufactured using very simplistic formulas. They don’t account for transportation, various difficulties involved in different area, or having to cope with hostile governments that want to steal most of it and don’t want their people fed. If you handed 100 billion to the most trained and dedicated charitable worker on Earth they could do a LOT of good but they wouldn’t end world hunger. 6
Tacenda Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 Don't know how accurate since it's from a "critic".
Bob Crockett Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 Damn Harvard for refusing to touch the principal of its endowment. And Catholic Charities, Knights of Columbus, Oral Roberts, the Vatican.
Rain Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 4 hours ago, Tacenda said: If this comment from Betthany Kay is true, I'm all for it. And I believe the church might be too. "Did you know if the Mormon Church could spare just 20 of their 100 Billion, they could provide access to clean water for the entire planet and still have 80 Billion leftover? www.charitywater.org" Are all those governments on board for allowing the church to come in and do that?
Popular Post InCognitus Posted March 8, 2021 Popular Post Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: Don't know how accurate since it's from a "critic". I appreciate your posts, Tacenda, because you always give me something to think about. And when you say, "I don't know how accurate [this is]", I take it as a challenge. Of course the church doesn't keep a record of racial diversity, so the numbers shown on the chart are obviously made up. To prove the point to myself, I just made an Excel spreadsheet using the data from the church web site from the Facts and Statistics page here. And this is the breakdown by I came up with, showing the church membership by region: * Rest of North America: Antigua and Barbuda, Aruba, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Cayman Islands, Costa Rica, Curacao, Dominica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Martinique, Nicaragua, Panama, Puerto Rico, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent, Sint Maarten, Trinidad and Tobago, Virgin Islands Let's say, for the sake of discussion that all of United States and Canada is white (which it's not), and all of Europe is white (which it's not), and everything else is non-white (which it's not). But let's do this just to come up with a number. The percentages would be this: White: 7,417,522.00 44.78% Other: 9,147,514.00 55.22% Now obviously this number isn't accurate either, but it just goes to show how skewed the information is on the chart that you posted. And at least I know how I came up with the numbers. I have no way to validate the donations. Edited March 8, 2021 by InCognitus 5
Tacenda Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, InCognitus said: I appreciate your posts, Tacenda, because you always give me something to think about. And when you say, "I don't know how accurate [this is]", I take it as a challenge. Of course the church doesn't keep a record of racial diversity, so the numbers shown on the chart are obviously made up. To prove the point to myself, I just made an Excel spreadsheet using the data from the church web site from the Facts and Statistics page here. And this is the breakdown by I came up with, showing the church membership by region: * Rest of North America: Antigua and Barbuda, Aruba, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Cayman Islands, Costa Rica, Curacao, Dominica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Martinique, Nicaragua, Panama, Puerto Rico, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent, Sint Maarten, Trinidad and Tobago, Virgin Islands Let's say, for the sake of discussion that all of United States and Canada is white (which it's not), and all of Europe is white (which it's not), and everything else is non-white (which it's not). But let's do this just to come up with a number. The percentages would be this: White: 7,417,522.00 44.78% Other: 9,147,514.00 55.22% Now obviously this number isn't accurate either, but it just goes to show how skewed the information is on the chart that you posted. And at least I know how I came up with the numbers. I have no way to validate the donations. That's very charitable of you! I saw the meme on a recent rant on exmormonreddit. So a rant for a rant I guess. There is a way to tell though actually, I found this article: https://www.deseret.com/2016/7/12/20591934/lds-church-welfare-humanitarian-efforts-average-40-million-per-year-apostle-says#elder-dallin-h-oaks-right-speaks-during-a-panel-discussion-before-the-all-party-parliamentary-group-for-international-freedom-of-religion-or-belief-in-the-u-k-house-of-lords-on-june-8-2016-to-his-right-is-dr-peter-petkoff-of-brunel-and-regents-park-college-at-oxford But it's based on the year 2016, so the church may have increased the amount. And then saw a link that led to the c/p below, which may be where the meme was made from. C/P'd reddit post from 4 years ago: The Seventh-Day Adventists Spend 22 Times More on Humanitarian Aid Than the LDS Church In 2014, the Seventh-Day Adventists took in $2.3 billion in tithing and provided $291.5 million in humanitarian aid, including rendering aid in more than 130 countries. The LDS church brings in about $7 billion in tithing each year. The recent Deseret News article explains that the LDS church "spends about $40 million on welfare, humanitarian and other LDS Church-sponsored projects around the world." This includes "emergency response projects in 56 countries." That means that the Seventh-Day Adventists' aid as a percentage of their tithing income is 12.6% while Mormonism's is about 0.57%. That's 22 times less than what the Seventh Day Adventists are putting towards humanitarian aid. (Note that the number given by the Seventh-Day Adventists is the value of the aid rendered, so it's possible they spent less than that total number. In any case, it seems that the Seventh-Day Adventists contribute far more to humanitarian aid than the LDS church). Edited March 8, 2021 by Tacenda
Robert F. Smith Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 4 hours ago, The Nehor said: The numbers to end world hunger or provide clean water to everyone and the like are largely manufactured using very simplistic formulas. They don’t account for transportation, various difficulties involved in different area, or having to cope with hostile governments that want to steal most of it and don’t want their people fed. If you handed 100 billion to the most trained and dedicated charitable worker on Earth they could do a LOT of good but they wouldn’t end world hunger. One indication of the difficulties in delivering charitable care to people in need is the actual killing of selfless doctors and nurses of Doctors Without Borders (Médecins Sans Frontières/MSF). Some foreign govts cannot imagine that anyone would help someone else without an ulterior motive. 2
Tacenda Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 I will never win the argument that the church can do more, because I always get comments that steer away from it. From the past I've heard plenty of things that shut me down. And I understand how difficult it is to get the help to these countries. But is there any way to get through somehow, if there's a will there's a way? I don't want people killed over trying to help, never, such as Robert mentioned. But aren't there many missionaries of other faiths that go in and do things, as well as from our church? And corporations etc. So if it's helping then we can always do more, IMO.
Calm Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 2 hours ago, InCognitus said: Now obviously this number isn't accurate either, but it just goes to show how skewed the information is on the chart that you posted. And at least I know how I came up with the numbers. Is there a way to choose colors? Canada, US, Australia and Europe could be three tones of blues (majority race white), Mexico and the rest of Central and South America could be greens (assuming they have a common majority race in most countries, iirc it is mestizos). Africa could be yellow, Central Asia orange, East Asia red, Oceania purples. 1
Calm Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Tacenda said: will never win the argument that the church can do more, Does anyone actually disagree with the Church can and should do more? I think what is disagreed with is how they should choose to do more. Quote if there's a will there's a way? A platitude, not a truth. Sometimes, most often I believe due to corruption, there is not a way to help immediately. Other problems must be solved first. Corruption must be diminished or any aid sent to certain areas will only create targets and more victims of warlords and others stealing what is sent, giving them more power to make lives hell rather than lessening troubles. And it isn’t just locals that are corrupt, but even legal economic systems: Quote With little time and space to talk about global poverty, when we get the chance we need to focus on what can really make poverty history. And that's not aid. We have to examine our communications with the public, and be honest about what £3 a month can and can't do. We have a duty to those we purport to work on behalf of, and to our own public, to tell the truth. And the truth is the UK takes far more from Africa than it gives in aid. Africa subsidises us, not the other way around. The solution is to stop those losses, that drain of resources, not divert attention away from it by demands for aid and charity appeals. We need to look at our own internal structures, policies and practices – in our campaign collations, and inside our organisations. We can't expect to change the power imbalances that create mass poverty in the world while retaining similar imbalances within our own partnerships. Finally, the sector needs to shift the development debate to holding our government to account for its role in the global poverty. There are already impressive campaigns on tax and climate change – the sector needs to unite behind these. Yet challenging the government on their actions, while simultaneously congratulating them for their aid just doesn't make sense. It is the paradox at the very heart of the sector that undermines all that we are trying to achieve. Justice for Africa requires action to stop the resources being taken out. Let's focus on that. This is about the UK and Africa. Be interesting to see if the same is true for the US. Are we taking more resources out of Africa than putting back in. Charity isn’t going to solve poverty as long as governments don’t seek win-win exchanges between nations. https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/opinion/2019-01-14-corruption-threatens-africas-nonprofit-and-charity-sector/ Unfortunately the article is cut short, but has this tidbit. Quote I was once asked to investigate donations of vehicles and equipment at a high-profile SA children’s charity, where none of the cars or computers actually made it to the charity’s premises. Instead, they remained at the homes of senior employees and were used by them and other employees... Technology and proper farming, water production, and building techniques need to be discovered or adapted and then learned so the result of aid isn’t a wasteland. https://lifewater.org/blog/drilling-water-wells-africa/https://upgro.org/consortium/hidden-crisis2/ Quote Millions of pounds of investment by water users, charities and tax-payers are wasted each year by water points failing soon after construction. Getting a more complete understanding of how to keep water flowing from boreholes will reduce waste and improve water services for Africa’s poorest communities. And aid must be carefully planned to support local industry rather than destroy it as has happened in Kenya where sending American secondhand clothing to them as a charity has created a secondhand clothing business that has destroyed their own country’s clothing industry. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/used-secondhand-clothes-import-ban-kenya-local-manufacturers-us-a9611026.html Edited March 8, 2021 by Calm 4
Popular Post Rain Posted March 8, 2021 Popular Post Posted March 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I will never win the argument that the church can do more, because I always get comments that steer away from it. From the past I've heard plenty of things that shut me down. And I understand how difficult it is to get the help to these countries. But is there any way to get through somehow, if there's a will there's a way? I don't want people killed over trying to help, never, such as Robert mentioned. But aren't there many missionaries of other faiths that go in and do things, as well as from our church? And corporations etc. So if it's helping then we can always do more, IMO. I have never tried to shut you down, but I have been really frustrated because no matter what I say you bring up that you want the church to do "more". You have said the church should do ______ and I tell you a specific instance that the church is doing that (and I don't share specific things I know they are doing, but I'm not at liberty to say). You have said the church should do ______ and I give you good specific reasons I am aware of why the church isn't doing that or doing it that way. Then you say the church should do "more" and when I ask how much more the church needs to do to satisfy you then you don't answer. So I get really frustrated having this same conversation again where you find some info to accuse the church of and I feel I have to use the experience I have to show where the things you are sharing either don't show the whole picture and/or a correct picture. It isn't meant to shut you down. I just keep hoping that armed with the info I give you that at some point you will some day look at the accusing info and wonder what positive about the church info is missing. There are some real problems in the church because we are all imperfect people, but the more I see what the church does with charitable causes the more it touches and impresses me with the way it works with those causes. It's really beautiful. If you don't want to feel like we are shutting you down when we refute what a source is saying then I would suggest when you find some info then sincerely ask us questions like "what am I missing here?" Be aware that some may not trust that is not a sincere question, but given time if you come with a positive assumption of the church and ask what you are missing sincerely I think you will find so many cool things about how it all works. 5
Tacenda Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, Calm said: Does anyone actually disagree with the Church can and should do more? I think what is disagreed with is how they should choose to do more. A platitude, not a truth. Sometimes, most often I believe due to corruption, there is not a way to help immediately. Other problems must be solved first. Corruption must be diminished or any aid sent to certain areas will only create targets and more victims of warlords and others stealing what is sent, giving them more power to make lives hell rather than lessening troubles. Technology and proper farming and building techniques need to be discovered or adapted and then learned so the result of aid isn’t a wasteland. And aid must be carefully planned to support local industry rather than destroy it as has happened in Kenya where sending American secondhand clothing to them as a charity has created a secondhand clothing business that has destroyed their own country’s clothing industry. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/used-secondhand-clothes-import-ban-kenya-local-manufacturers-us-a9611026.html Yes, it is a quandary. I guess the church has a lot of responsibility just taking care of the members let alone the world. This should be the point I should digress, but figure with the amount the church has it could increase the output somewhat, not too much that in the end it won't be the rainy day fund needed. And as you say the help can hurt without them realizing. I guess I need to do a lot of research to not appear to be completely out of my league on understanding the nitty-gritty. I do see the church helping out in some amazing ways too.
Tacenda Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rain said: I have never tried to shut you down, but I have been really frustrated because no matter what I say you bring up that you want the church to do "more". You have said the church should do ______ and I tell you a specific instance that the church is doing that (and I don't share specific things I know they are doing, but I'm not at liberty to say). You have said the church should do ______ and I give you good specific reasons I am aware of why the church isn't doing that or doing it that way. Then you say the church should do "more" and when I ask how much more the church needs to do to satisfy you then you don't answer. So I get really frustrated having this same conversation again where you find some info to accuse the church of and I feel I have to use the experience I have to show where the things you are sharing either don't show the whole picture and/or a correct picture. It isn't meant to shut you down. I just keep hoping that armed with the info I give you that at some point you will some day look at the accusing info and wonder what positive about the church info is missing. There are some real problems in the church because we are all imperfect people, but the more I see what the church does with charitable causes the more it touches and impresses me with the way it works with those causes. It's really beautiful. If you don't want to feel like we are shutting you down when we refute what a source is saying then I would suggest when you find some info then sincerely ask us questions like "what am I missing here?" Be aware that some may not trust that is not a sincere question, but given time if you come with a positive assumption of the church and ask what you are missing sincerely I think you will find so many cool things about how it all works. I saw this after responding to Calm, and my answer to her, would hopefully suffice for you too. The amount of money the church has compared to the money it donates is my beef I guess, in wanting the church to do more. I'm sorry if I disagree with most here. Maybe the church is more privy to things that the rest of the world are unaware of, since some corps etc. and churches do more monetarily. I do know the church is amazing on many levels. I guess I'm one of those that see it one way and the rest around me see it another way, maybe explains a lot about why I butt heads silently with the people in my life. Thanks for being patient Rain.
Rain Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Yes, it is a quandary. I guess the church has a lot of responsibility just taking care of the members let alone the world. This should be the point I should digress, but figure with the amount the church has it could increase the output somewhat, not too much that in the end it won't be the rainy day fund needed. And as you say the help can hurt without them realizing. I guess I need to do a lot of research to not appear to be completely out of my league on understanding the nitty-gritty. I do see the church helping out in some amazing ways too. You'll want to know you probably won't find the research you are looking for most of the time. I am aware of a few times the church has given to the charity I am with because of the things I do for the charity, but I am also aware that I don't know all of the ways it probably helps given scraps of conversation I have had with our founders. I am also aware of how the church has helped other charities because of the relationship those charities have had with my organization, but I am not with those charities so the church may be helping in ways I don't know about. Then I have picked up little bits and pieces from conversations I have had with people about things that I have never heard about online. One of the best things you could do to research is to go take a tour of the sort center (if the still do that - it's been 15+ years since I went) and welfare square in Salt Lake though I don't know if with covid restrictions you can right now. That by far won't tell you everything, but it will help you start to get an understanding of how the church does charitable causes. 1
carbon dioxide Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tacenda said: If this comment from Betthany Kay is true, I'm all for it. And I believe the church might be too. "Did you know if the Mormon Church could spare just 20 of their 100 Billion, they could provide access to clean water for the entire planet and still have 80 Billion leftover? www.charitywater.org" If that were true, Bill Gates would have done that already. So no I did not know it and the reason why I did not know it is that is is pure nonsense. Edited March 8, 2021 by carbon dioxide
Glenn101 Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Yes, it is a quandary. I guess the church has a lot of responsibility just taking care of the members let alone the world. This should be the point I should digress, but figure with the amount the church has it could increase the output somewhat, not too much that in the end it won't be the rainy day fund needed. And as you say the help can hurt without them realizing. I guess I need to do a lot of research to not appear to be completely out of my league on understanding the nitty-gritty. I do see the church helping out in some amazing ways too. Why cannot we, as individuals, look and see what we can do more to help others? If all of the "haves" would do voluntarily do "more" to help the "have nots," we would not need any organization to do more, except to organize the efforts. Each of us as individuals have obligations etc. that we have to meet which constrain, limits, and directs how we allocate our resources. The church (and other churches) also have that problem, i.e. how to best allocate their resources to take care of their obligations. In this case, the church can do more if we as individuals maybe increase the amount we may donate for humanitarian aid. So, I am going to put my money where my mouth is and do just that. Just as an afterthought, I am wondering just what may be the percentage of people who do donate to humanitarian aid? If I remember correctly, (if anyone has different, more correct information, please inform me) only about a third of the members are full tithe payers. Just think what the church could do if say two thirds of the members were full tithe payers! Glenn 1
InCognitus Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 26 minutes ago, Tacenda said: That's very charitable of you! I saw the meme on a recent rant on exmormonreddit. So a rant for a rant I guess. There is a way to tell though actually, I found this article: https://www.deseret.com/2016/7/12/20591934/lds-church-welfare-humanitarian-efforts-average-40-million-per-year-apostle-says#elder-dallin-h-oaks-right-speaks-during-a-panel-discussion-before-the-all-party-parliamentary-group-for-international-freedom-of-religion-or-belief-in-the-u-k-house-of-lords-on-june-8-2016-to-his-right-is-dr-peter-petkoff-of-brunel-and-regents-park-college-at-oxford But it's based on the year 2016, so the church may have increased the amount. And then saw a link that led to the c/p below, which may be where the meme was made from. C/P'd reddit post from 4 years ago: The Seventh-Day Adventists Spend 22 Times More on Humanitarian Aid Than the LDS Church In 2014, the Seventh-Day Adventists took in $2.3 billion in tithing and provided $291.5 million in humanitarian aid, including rendering aid in more than 130 countries. The LDS church brings in about $7 billion in tithing each year. The recent Deseret News article explains that the LDS church "spends about $40 million on welfare, humanitarian and other LDS Church-sponsored projects around the world." This includes "emergency response projects in 56 countries." That means that the Seventh-Day Adventists' aid as a percentage of their tithing income is 12.6% while Mormonism's is about 0.57%. That's 22 times less than what the Seventh Day Adventists are putting towards humanitarian aid. (Note that the number given by the Seventh-Day Adventists is the value of the aid rendered, so it's possible they spent less than that total number. In any case, it seems that the Seventh-Day Adventists contribute far more to humanitarian aid than the LDS church). Yes, I had done some more investigating too. I'll list the footnotes in the "Religious Comparison" chart below, and show where at least one of them are comparing apples and oranges: 1. THE MOST AND LEAST RACIALLY DIVERSE U.S. RELIGIOUS GROUPS, PEW 2015: The pew research study in the link above is the source of the racial diversity numbers in the pie chart. But what the chart doesn't tell you is that it is comparing U.S. statistics only (although the footnote says "U.S. RELIGIOUS GROUPS", it isn't really clear that the numbers are for U.S. membership only, or if it is showing religions that have a presence in the U.S.). It is a fair comparison between LDS and SDA racial diversity in the United States, but it is misleading (to me anyway) because the numbers below the pie charts are for world wide membership. 2. and 3: These are just world wide membership statistics. The LDS statistics are from 2017, the SDA statistics are from 2015. 4. CRAGUN AND REUTERS ESTIMATE, 2012 I didn't check this reference, but this would be for the $7 Billion tithing number that is shown on the LDS side for "Annual Tithes & Offerings". 5. SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST WORLD CHURCH STATISTICS, 2014 This is the source for the $3,276,600,259 number shown on the SDA side for "Annual Tithes & Offerings". This is also the source for the $291,556,608 amount shown on the SDA side for "Annual Charitable Contributions" ** (See below for the discussion on this). 6. JUNE 2016, PANEL DISCUSSION WITH APOSTLE DALLIN H. OAKS This is the source for the $40,000,000 number shown on the LDS side for "Annual Charitable Contributions". This is the same link you provided above. But this is where there is an apples and oranges problem. If you look at the SDA source page (#5 above), you'll see that the $291,556.608 number comes from the "Total Value of Aid" under the "ADVENTIST DEVELOPMENT AND RELIEF AGENCY (ADRA)" heading. This is the ADRA website, and this is a separate charitable organization which has separate funding. If you go to their FAQ page and read the question under "How is ADRA funded?", it says: Quote How is ADRA funded? In 2015 ADRA’s program expenses totaled $190 million—made possible through private contributions from private individuals like you, corporations, foundations, and other entities. We also obtain funding and commodities from governmental and intergovernmental organizations, such as USAID and the United Nations. So they also include government, USAID, and United Nations funding in their number. The $190 million number can be checked on the SDA 2015 Church Statistics page, where they list "in excess of US$180,000,000 as their "Funds for Program Support and Implementation" amount. I don't see how this can be compared to the LDS number, the Deseret News article states, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints spends about $40 million on welfare, humanitarian and other LDS Church-sponsored projects around the world and has done so for more than 30 years." The LDS number appears to be self-funded, while the SDA number is supplemented by government and USAID and United Nations funding. 3
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