The Temples Are Re-opening

[smac97]

Here:

Quote

17 Latter-day Saint temples to open for sealings on Monday, others to open in four phases
Limited opening of temples in Utah, Idaho, Germany and Sweden is the first sign of a return to Latter-day Saint gatherings as the coronavirus pandemic continues

By Tad Walch@Tad_Walch  May 7, 2020, 8:01am MDT

SALT LAKE CITY — Six weeks after temporarily closing all of the faith’s temples, the First Presidency announced Thursday that 17 temples will reopen Monday for weddings only, the first of four phases that eventually will lead to full operations at all 168 temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The limited opening of temples in Utah, Idaho, Germany and Sweden is the first sign of a return to Latter-day Saint gatherings as the coronavirus pandemic continues to play out. The decision comes after church members fasted twice and prayed continuously for relief from the coronavirus pandemic.

“With profound gratitude to our Heavenly Father that he has heard our prayers, we rejoice in announcing a carefully coordinated, cautious and phased reopening of temples,” the First Presidency said in a letter issued Thursday morning. “With this letter, we are authorizing the reopening of 17 temples” for living husband-and-wife sealing ordinances for previously endowed members. That is Phase 1 for in reopening a temple.

Other temples will reopen as directed by the Temple Department based on local government and public health guidelines.

Phase 1 begins with the church’s temples in Germany and Sweden, 11 temples in Utah — Bountiful, Brigham City, Cedar City, Logan, Manti, Monticello, Ogden, Oquirrh Mountain, Payson, Provo and Provo City Center — and the Boise, Idaho Falls and Twin Falls temples in Idaho. Additional temples in Utah and Idaho will reopen after completing annual maintenance work.

My daughter spent nearly a year as an exchange student in Italy, in a small town on the island of Sardinia.  During that time, she could only attend church a handful of times.  She returned home and experienced a new-found appreciation for attending Sunday services.  This arose from her being deprived of the opportunity for a time.

I wonder if we will likewise gain a renewed appreciation for temple worship, having been deprived of it for months.

Thanks,

-Smac

[CV75]

30 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Here:

My daughter spent nearly a year as an exchange student in Italy, in a small town on the island of Sardinia.  During that time, she could only attend church a handful of times.  She returned home and experienced a new-found appreciation for attending Sunday services.  This arose from her being deprived of the opportunity for a time.

I wonder if we will likewise gain a renewed appreciation for temple worship, having been deprived of it for months.

Thanks,

-Smac

It is interesting to me, considering the great differences in approaches between Germany and Sweden, that the pandemic metrics have flattened enough in these two places to open temples under the Church's "abundance of caution" approach.

[CA Steve]

Do the temples use recirculated air in their HVAC systems?

 

If so, how does one safely socially distance in a closed environment with recirculated air? That is why cruise ships and retirement homes are hotbeds for CV19 spread.

[Nacho2dope]

55 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Here:

My daughter spent nearly a year as an exchange student in Italy, in a small town on the island of Sardinia.  During that time, she could only attend church a handful of times.  She returned home and experienced a new-found appreciation for attending Sunday services.  This arose from her being deprived of the opportunity for a time.

I wonder if we will likewise gain a renewed appreciation for temple worship, having been deprived of it for months.

Thanks,

-Smac

I know I have missed going to the Temple greatly. I can definitely see a renewed appreciation for Temple worship in my life and others I know. 

[Scott Lloyd]

39 minutes ago, CV75 said:

It is interesting to me, considering the great differences in approaches between Germany and Sweden, that the pandemic metrics have flattened enough in these two places to open temples under the Church's "abundance of caution" approach.

I just read a National Review article that said the British scientist on whose modeling the lockdown orders in the UK and the United States were based has resigned in disgrace because lockdowns have been shown to have little effect on the pandemic, even as other measures such as social distancing, face masks, hand washing and sanitary wipe downs are effective. 
 

I think the measures the Church took were prudent. The Church never required lockdowns, though it did counsel compliance with public health requirements. 
 

Here in Utah, there has not yet been a lockdown. We are not among the hardest hit areas as of yet. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Here:

My daughter spent nearly a year as an exchange student in Italy, in a small town on the island of Sardinia.  During that time, she could only attend church a handful of times.  She returned home and experienced a new-found appreciation for attending Sunday services.  This arose from her being deprived of the opportunity for a time.

I wonder if we will likewise gain a renewed appreciation for temple worship, having been deprived of it for months.

Thanks,

-Smac

Our temple presidency (Draper Utah) has reported that families and individuals have been driving up to the temple just to sit in the parking lot and feel the spirit of being in its vicinity. 

[smac97]

21 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I just read a National Review article that said the British scientist on whose modeling the lockdown orders in the UK and the United States were based has resigned in disgrace because lockdowns have been shown to have little effect on the pandemic, even as other measures such as social distancing, face masks, hand washing and sanitary wipe downs are effective. 

Was this the same British guy who "helped craft the United Kingdom's social distancing rules {and who} resigned after he was caught breaking those rules in order to cheat with a married woman"?

Gotta love the bureaucrats running the show.  "Lockdown measures for thee, but not for me," I guess.

Quote

I think the measures the Church took were prudent. The Church never required lockdowns, though it did counsel compliance with public health requirements. 

Here in Utah, there has not yet been a lockdown. We are not among the hardest hit areas as of yet. 

I hope we get back to work soon.  Stuff like this is distressing:

Quote

Gloom grips US small businesses, with 52% predicting failure
Alex Tanzi

COVID-19 could shutter most American small businesses.

That’s according to a new survey from the Society for Human Resource Management which found that 52% expect to be out of business within six months. The survey of 375 firms was conducted between April 15-21 and doesn’t account for improved business conditions as some U.S. states reopen this month.

“SHRM has tracked Covid-19’s impact on work, workers, and the workplace for months,” said SHRM Chief Executive Officer Johnny C. Taylor, Jr., “but these might be the most alarming findings to date. Small business is truly the backbone of our economy. So, when half say they’re worried about being wiped out, let’s remember: We’re talking about roughly 14 million businesses.”

Just over a third of small firms expect that they can continue to operate more that 6 months, while 14% are uncertain, according to the survey. About one quarter of firms have seen revenues rise or remain unchanged in recent months.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited May 7, 2020 by smac97

[Scott Lloyd]

4 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Was this the same British guy who "helped craft the United Kingdom's social distancing rules resigned after he was caught breaking those rules in order to cheat with a married woman"?

Gotta love the bureaucrats running the show.  "Lockdown measures for thee, but not for me," I guess.

I hope we get back to work soon.  Stuff like this is distressing:

Thanks,

-Smac

Yeah, it’s the same guy. 
 

I think there is wisdom in what President Trump said earlier about not letting the cure become worse than the problem. 
 

I think President Nelson and the Church leaders are taking a sane approach with the limited and phased reopening of a few temples at a time. I expect the temples will be a bellwether for the resumption of other activities in the Church, that the temples will be more fully operational before we resume our Sabbath-day meetings. 

[Kenngo1969]

59 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Was this the same British guy who "helped craft the United Kingdom's social distancing rules {and who} resigned after he was caught breaking those rules in order to cheat with a married woman"?

Gotta love the bureaucrats running the show.  "Lockdown measures for thee, but not for me," I guess. ...

Yeah.  He thought he was immune.

Oops. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Our temple presidency (Draper Utah) has reported that families and individuals have been driving up to the temple just to sit in the parking lot and feel the spirit of being in its vicinity. 

It's interesting that the Draper temple grounds are open for them to do that.  The Bountiful and Ogden temple parking lots are gated and locked.

[MustardSeed]

I don’t follow the logic but I do trust the inspiration.  
 

but it’s not on my list of things to to for a while.  
it just doesn’t make sense to touch hands with virtually at least 20 other women or more.  Not yet. 

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I don’t follow the logic but I do trust the inspiration.  
 

but it’s not on my list of things to to for a while.  
it just doesn’t make sense to touch hands with virtually at least 20 other women or more.  Not yet. 

It’s only Going to be open at first for live sealings. So I think our leaders agree with you. 

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, smac97 said:

Here:

My daughter spent nearly a year as an exchange student in Italy, in a small town on the island of Sardinia.  During that time, she could only attend church a handful of times.  She returned home and experienced a new-found appreciation for attending Sunday services.  This arose from her being deprived of the opportunity for a time.

I wonder if we will likewise gain a renewed appreciation for temple worship, having been deprived of it for months.

Thanks,

-Smac

I think you're right I'm inactive and I want to go back, but with stipulations, haha. I wouldn't handle the sacrament tray nor sit too close and would wear a mask.

[Traela]

24 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It’s only Going to be open at first for live sealings. So I think our leaders agree with you. 

And masks are allowed.  I predict a cottage industry of fancy white temple masks.

 

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I just read a National Review article that said..........

Edited May 7, 2020 by The Nehor

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

 

As hominem. And politics. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

6 hours ago, smac97 said:

wonder if we will likewise gain a renewed appreciation for temple worship, having been deprived of it for months.

I kind of doubt that...at least for most, maybe a few who had to change plans of marriage. Not long enough to really feel that different for many. For those it mattered that much, I think they probably already appreciated the temple.

[The Nehor]

In more seriousness the initial British response was to start out with the idea of getting general herd immunity first while protecting the vulnerable. It wasn't working and that late lockdown is probably why there just made the #2 spot in total cases passing Italy the other day.

Italy is probably going to have problems soon too. The southern parts of Italy are seeing increased cases and there is a general divide between the wealthy north and poorer south. There were reports of delayed food in the south. There are reports that the Mafia is shoring up their goodwill amongst the people by delivering food when the government fails.

On a personal note I found out on Thursday that I had been exposed right before this lockdowns started weeks ago and was with someone who most likely had it. Their workplace had an outbreak. He never showed symptoms but he just got antibody tests. How ironic that if I got it I got it from my bishop. I would love to get an antibody test to check but we are still short.

Oh, one warning. Be very cautious about the test kits they are going to be selling directly to the public. The FDA has not verified their accuracy and all accuracy checks were probably done internally (which was allowed) so there is a bit of a conflict of interest in the approval process. It is a good day to be a snake oil salesman.

Lest you think I love government regulations and lockdowns in general I spent some time in the last few weeks as part of a team working to develop a plan to get ventilators into New York City. They came from Europe and have to have adjustments done before they can be put in service in the US. The hospital understandably does not want our technicians there so we tried to rent some space to unpack and make the software changes. This went swimmingly until they found out we would have people in the rented space for a several hours. Finally we had to take them out of the state into a neighboring state to get the stuff changed.

[Nemesis]

Make sure the political commentary is left out of the discussion.

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As hominem. And politics. 

Saying a news source is untrustworthy is not a political statement or an ad hominem. There are some people and organizations I do not fact check anymore. They are not worthy of the time. I just assume they are lying because they have done it enough.

Admittedly I am either reading the wrong article or you are wrong.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/neil-fergusons-error-of-judgment/

I looked it up and the doctor resigned (or possibly asked to resign) for violating the guidelines he laid down. That is understandable. He did not resign because the lockdown was found to be a failure as you said (and the article did not).

I found the self-indulgent broad-brushed sneering contempt at the general sinfulness of British society unsubstantiated, offensive, and lazy.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I don’t follow the logic but I do trust the inspiration.  ........................

How about faith in respirators?

[halconero]

In related news, my wedding plans continue to be a moving target. The only constant is the date, come high waters, pandemics, or the premature pronunciation of death upon peninsular dictators in East Asia.

 

[Robert F. Smith]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Saying a news source is untrustworthy is not a political statement or an ad hominem. There are some people and organizations I do not fact check anymore. They are not worthy of the time. I just assume they are lying because they have done it enough.

Admittedly I am either reading the wrong article or you are wrong.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/neil-fergusons-error-of-judgment/

I looked it up and the doctor resigned (or possibly asked to resign) for violating the guidelines he laid down. That is understandable. He did not resign because the lockdown was found to be a failure as you said (and the article did not).

I found the self-indulgent broad-brushed sneering contempt at the general sinfulness of British society unsubstantiated, offensive, and lazy.

The other act of very bad judgment was by the British Prime Minister who visited a hospital and shook hands with the COVID-19 patients.  A couple of weeks later, voila, he had it and nearly died in an ICU on a respirator.  Just like a foolish little boy.  The lockdown has not been a failure.

[Calm]

My niece is being married today, grandparents and siblings only present as both sets of parents are grounded in Asia for now. The rest of us will be attending by Zoom. 
 

Hopefully they will be able to get sealed soon. 

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think there is wisdom in what President Trump said earlier about not letting the cure become worse than the problem. 

He took that turn of phrase from Limbaugh who insisted the whole thing was a media hoax. He has since pivoted to trying to downplay the numbers. See my comment above about confirmed liars.

That being said and dancing away from the shadow of politics I agree with the sentiment to a degree. I have a friend that used to work in FEMA and told me the dollar value of an American resident's life in their cost calculations. It was about 15 years ago and has probably changed so I will not give the amount. It was not absurdly low but we do need to ask how much we are willing to sacrifice as a society to save lives. It is easy to verbally wax idealistic and insist that human life is priceless but if we believed it we would live so much differently. The obvious way is we would put speed limiters on every vehicle to keep it from going over 5 mph. You could still have accidents but traffic fatalities would fall to almost 0 overnight if it were implemented. Would it be worth it? Yet if human life is absolutely priceless we would do it in a heartbeat. Saying human life is priceless also paints those who risk or sacrifice their lives or die as martyrs as fools. I guess you could argue that anyone who died saving more lives might be justified but dying for an ideal like your faith, your nation, your principles, or whatever would be nonsensical.

So, what is human life worth?

How many bankruptcies is a human life worth? What would the projected number of deaths averted need to be for us to say to hell with the economy and lock down everything except what we need to survive and we will rebuild afterwards from whatever is left? What number saved would justify the lockdown we have/had? What would justify it continuing? I am not expecting anyone to have answers but people making decisions about this pandemic should be wrestling with these conundrums. I bet President Nelson and the apostles thought about it in terms of closing things down and now the limited temple reopenings. I would say opening the temples even in the limited way they are is a gutsy move and a strong endorsement of the power and necessity of those ordinances. I do not because I doubt President Nelson and the apostles are relying on their gut.  

I don't think we will have that conversation but I do have a strong conviction that misinformation (whether overly optimistic or pessimistic or just plain wrong) is deadly right now and as a society many of us have quite a taste for false prophets who will tell us it is not that bad or it is overblown or that it is almost over. Another group has a darker taste for the more morbid and cling to news it could be worse. I try to walk the road of fact but I admit If anything I will turn into the latter. I tried to run some numbers a couple of weeks ago to predict a week out where we would be in terms of deaths and I found my predicted numbers were a little too high. I was a little annoyed at first and then I realized that I was actually getting annoyed that people were still alive and stopped and it switched to relief.