Please Add Me to Your Inheritance.

[pogi]

43 minutes ago, RichYoungRuler said:

This is HILAROIUS!  Good one Pogi.  Blue ribbon.

No, I was serious.

[RichYoungRuler]

6 hours ago, Ahab said:

Show me you love me by doing whatever I tell you to do.  And if you mess up, confess that you messed up and try again to do whatever I tell you to do.  If you do that, I'll consider sharing everything I have with you.  I may not die but I may still share everything I have with you.  Oh, and there is no "last" will and testament, since I may still declare my will and testify of what I know in the future, at any time I want to.

Your requirement is impossible.  No one here can say they are doing all they can do.

How many times does one have to lie to become a liar?

How many times does one have to steal to become a thief?  Have lust and hatred in one's heart to be an adulterer or a murderer?  One time.

Because keeping the commandments is no longer an option for a liar, a thief, an adulterer, a murderer, a whoremonger, you need a savior.

[RichYoungRuler]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Establish a relationship with the Lord.  Keep His commandments  - it won't be easy.  Loving his children is not something you can do in your mind alone, as loving is a verb.  Walk the talk.  Repent, actually repent, regularly. Because you are human, and you will make mistakes that distance YOU from God.  He is always there, regardless, because of His Grace. 

"Keep the commandments".  Does any do this?  He doesn't say "Try your best to keep the commandments".

You don't even know all of the commandments.  How do you intend on keeping them? 

"It won't be easy" like you would even know.

"Repent, actually repent, regularly".

If you have to "repent regularly" then you didn't actually repent in the first place (D&C 58:43).   

 

[RichYoungRuler]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

What does any of this have to do with being a beneficiary of my last will and testament?

There is nothing you can do.  You can try to believe yourself all you want into my will, but I wouldn't waste too much time on that if I were you... 

I lied, there is something you can do...pay me $10 million now, and I will work you into my will.

You're either the son of your father or not.

The only way is that someone bestows that name upon you and apart from anything that you have done or can do.

"Keep the commandments" is a commandment which you either completely fulfill or completely do not fulfill.  You're either born into his family or not.  

He either knows you or He does not.

[RichYoungRuler]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

No, I was serious.

I was too!

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Your requirement is impossible. 

With God all things are possible.

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

No one here can say they are doing all they can do.

Of course not. We are woefully ignorant of our own limitations. The Savior though, He can say "It is enough".

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

How many times does one have to lie to become a liar?

How many times does one have to steal to become a thief?  Have lust and hatred in one's heart to be an adulterer or a murderer?  One time.

I don't call myself a thief even though I stole a few times as a child. Nor would I say the same of you if your circumstances are the same. Of course you are probably trying to make a point about sin and wording it poorly.

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

"Keep the commandments".  Does any do this?  He doesn't say "Try your best to keep the commandments".

You don't even know all of the commandments.  How do you intend on keeping them? 

Yes, people do that. Some living, some dead. As to knowing them all that is the wisdom of God in hiding some of them from us for a time. More commandments are revealed to the righteous to help them further progress as they keep those they know.

I intend on keeping them through the Gift of the Holy Ghost and through the atonement of Christ. What is your plan? Die and hope that death magically turns evil impulses to good impulses? Or do you imagine sinful beings dwelling with God sinning for all eternity? If you are going to have to keep the commandments you might as well get started now.

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

"It won't be easy" like you would even know.

Someone who tries would probably have a better grasp of the difficulty than someone like you who categorically says it is impossible and sits on their supposed laurels.

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

"Repent, actually repent, regularly".

If you have to "repent regularly" then you didn't actually repent in the first place (D&C 58:43).   

"By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them."

Are you sure you got the right quotation there buddy? Maybe you meant this one?

"And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God."

Of course you ignore the general context in that one but what can you do?

Also, your insinuation is not what God meant nor is it an indictment of the concept of daily repentance.

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

You're either the son of your father or not.

Unless you are adopted.

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

The only way is that someone bestows that name upon you and apart from anything that you have done or can do.

Hardly.

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

"Keep the commandments" is a commandment which you either completely fulfill or completely do not fulfill. 

Only the Sith deal in absolutes. This is why.  

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

You're either born into his family or not.  

He either knows you or He does not.

That one dividing line that a magical prayer creates and all else in the world is nothing? Paul was saved from the day he had his vision of the Savior, his great labors for the gospel were nothing, and this following statement was just self-indulgent vainglorious braggartry about his works?

"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing"

Henceforth there is a crown? Because he kept the faith? Wasn't the crown always there when he first accepted divine grace? Wait??? ISN'T THIS THE SAME GUY WHO WAS SUPPOSEDLY TEACHING THAT WORKS DO NOT MATTER AT ALL!?!?!? Uh-oh.......

You do not understand the link between grace and works we preach. You ignorantly preach to us as if the grace of God means nothing to us and wonder why no one here respects you or is willing to listen to you? You are either ignorant of our beliefs or you are purposely caricaturing them? I suspect this is because we do not fit neatly into whatever quasi-evangelical preaching dialogue you are using for this farcical attempt at preaching. A smart preacher would adjust the script. One with no imagination or insight (secular or divine) would just keep blundering forward ignorantly hoping it will suddenly work while making himself a laughingstock. So far it is not looking good for you.

I should also add that an honest one would probably defer to the rules of the venue he is using and realize he is not supposed to preach here and find a better venue. Probably one that requires more courage than posting anonymously on a website but.....baby steps. I for one am enjoying your antics and discomfiture so I won't report you.

Edited March 6, 2020 by The Nehor

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Obviously, we all agree there is nothing I can do to obtain your earthly inheritance.

So what makes mormons think Heavenly Father would be any different?

Because he said so, repeatedly.

[LoudmouthMormon]

3 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

So what makes mormons think Heavenly Father would be any different?

I declined to add you, because you're not my child.

Heavenly Father won't decline to add me, because I'm His child.  And my older brother assures me I'm in the will, and will gain equal shares with Him.

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Dude, do you even Bible?

Edited March 6, 2020 by LoudmouthMormon

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I declined to add you, because you're not my child.

Heavenly Father won't decline to add me, because I'm His child.  And my older brother assures me I'm in the will, and will gain equal shares with Him.

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Dude, do you even Bible?

Don't point him to the Bible. He might get some uncomfortable shocks when he reads how Jesus will judge at the Last Day. Imagine if he was reading along and came to this:

Quote

 

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

I went ahead and bolded the parts about keeping the commandments.

That might lead to a paradigm shift without a clutch.

[The Nehor]

38 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Because he said so, repeatedly.

Oh, c'mon. What are you going to believe? The Word of God or a really strained and pathetic analogy that doesn't really work on any level?

Oh....yeah......ummmmm.......never mind then.

[mfbukowski]

8 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

What?  No takers?  I'm doing all that I can do from my youth up.  I'm keeping the commandments and faithful to my callings.

Obviously, we all agree there is nothing I can do to obtain your earthly inheritance.

So what makes mormons think Heavenly Father would be any different?

Really bad analogy, as we knew it would be.

Who will get our stuff after we die? Our kids.

Why? Because we love them and they love us. They are our kids. We would give them anything they needed

We are children of our father in heaven.

Of course we would get his inheritance

This is a non-starter.

Edited March 6, 2020 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

8 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

What?  No takers?  I'm doing all that I can do from my youth up.  I'm keeping the commandments and faithful to my callings.

Obviously, we all agree there is nothing I can do to obtain your earthly inheritance.

So what makes mormons think Heavenly Father would be any different?

Really bad analogy, as we knew it would be.

Who will get our stuff after we die? Our kids.

Why? Because we love them and they love us. They are our kids

We are children of our father in heaven.

Of course we would get his inheritance

This is a non-starter.

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

"Keep the commandments".  Does any do this?  He doesn't say "Try your best to keep the commandments".

You don't even know all of the commandments.  How do you intend on keeping them? 

Jesus said, 

“If you love me, keep my commandments....

he that has my commandments and keeps them, it is he that loves me; 

and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father,

and I will love him,

and will manifest myself to him.”

So, by your criteria:

No one keeps the commandments; therefore, no one loves him.

No one has all the commandments, so no one keeps them all nor loves him.

Those who don’t love him (keep his commandments), don’t have the love of the Father.

Those who don’t love him (keep his commandments), don’t have the love of the Son.

Therefore, no one will see the Son.

 

Major bummer.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

You're either the son of your father or not.

The only way is that someone bestows that name upon you and apart from anything that you have done or can do.

"Keep the commandments" is a commandment which you either completely fulfill or completely do not fulfill.  You're either born into his family or not.  

He either knows you or He does not.

Ahhh...at last! Smell those TULIPs? You are a Calvinist! 

Welcome, friend.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Kenngo1969]

9 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

... If you have to "repent regularly" then you didn't actually repent in the first place (D&C 58:43).   

 

Now he's interpreting our scriptures for us! *

How ... uhhh ... original ... or something.

Congratulations!

You got us, RYR!

We knew it couldn't last, before some Evangelical somewhere came and pulled out the one card that would make the whole thing collapse as though it's a house of cards (using a scripture from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, no less)!

Ah, well!  All "good" things must come to an end!  Will the last person to leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints please turn out the lights?

*Personally, I like to let God interpret the scriptures for me, through His Holy Spirit.  Safer that way (not to mention more accurate)!

[MustardSeed]

14 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

"Keep the commandments".  Does any do this?  He doesn't say "Try your best to keep the commandments".

You don't even know all of the commandments.  How do you intend on keeping them? 

"It won't be easy" like you would even know.

"Repent, actually repent, regularly".

If you have to "repent regularly" then you didn't actually repent in the first place (D&C 58:43).   

 

Obviously no one keeps all the commandments. That is why we are grateful for the Grace of God.  After all we "can" do.  

When you say "like you would even know" I hear that as rude.  It's hard for me to want to engage with you if you're going to be socially obtuse.  I'm not being rude to you, you asked a question, I answered my best given reasonable constraints of life etc.  If I knew you were going to try to play word games or catch me in some sort of trap, I wouldn't have participated.  If you want to talk WITH me, I'm available.

I think I do need to repent regularly.  I make mistakes all the time.  One brick of understanding at a time.  That's how I do it.
 

Sounds like you don't want to be part of my family after all.  That's fine, you're the one who asked. 

[mgy401]

It’s funny, because before the OP’s “big reveal” I was just thinking “fine, if you give us *everything* you have that you haven’t already given, we’ll give you everything we have—in due time, and in our own way”.

[Amulek]

On 3/5/2020 at 8:18 AM, RichYoungRuler said:

I would like to be added as a beneficiary on your last will and testament.

Wills are for suckers - it's all about trusts now baby. 

 

[halconero]

17 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Obviously, we all agree there is nothing I can do to obtain your earthly inheritance.

How do you square the above with the below?

[halconero]

An in-depth study into the Greek language and cultural context of the New Testament may be worth while when it comes to concepts of faith, grace, and works, amigo.

I suggest a particular focus on the New Perspective on Paul, Patronage, and Fidelity. 16th century concepts of faith that have been mixed with Enlightenment philosophies of empiricism and modernity aren't exactly the best paradigms with which to understand salvation.

[smac97]

18 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

What?  No takers?  I'm doing all that I can do from my youth up.  I'm keeping the commandments and faithful to my callings.

Obviously, we all agree there is nothing I can do to obtain your earthly inheritance.

So what makes mormons think Heavenly Father would be any different?

• "And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."  (Galatians 6:9)
• "And blessed are they who shall seek to bring forth my Zion at that day, for they shall have the gift and the power of the Holy Ghost; and if they endure unto the end they shall be lifted up at the last day, and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb."  (1 Nephi 13:37)
• "Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life."  (3 Nephi 15:9)
• "And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God."  (D&C 14:7)
• "And as many as repent and are baptized in my name, which is Jesus Christ, and endure to the end, the same shall be saved."  (D&C 18:22)
• "But blessed are they who are faithful and endure, whether in life or in death, for they shall inherit eternal life."  (D&C 50:5)
• "Now this was a great trial to those that did stand fast in the faith; nevertheless, they were steadfast and immovable in keeping the commandments of God."  (Alma 1:25)
• "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life."  (Romans 2:7)

The Scriptures mandate obedience to the commandments of God.  Mandate.  

"If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15) is a very big deal for me.  And for God too, I think.  "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."  (John 7:21)

I don't think you'll ever be able to persuade me that obedience to God is an only-obey-when-you-are-in-the-mood-and-otherwise-you-can-do-whatever-you-want-because-OSAS kind of thing.  That is the defect that, in my view, renders OSAS so unacceptable to me.  

But if you want an example of how OSAS can create problematic perspectives on behavior, here's an example:

  Quote

CHARLESTON, S.C. — The man she had married professed to be deeply religious. But after more than seven years with Robert L. Dear Jr., Barbara Micheau had come to see life with him as a kind of hell on earth.

By January 1993, she had had enough. In a sworn affidavit as part of her divorce case, Ms. Micheau described Mr. Dear as a serial philanderer and a problem gambler, a man who kicked her, beat her head against the floor and fathered two children with other women while they were together. He found excuses for his transgressions, she said, in his idiosyncratic views on Christian eschatology and the nature of salvation.

“He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions,” Ms. Micheau said in the court document. “He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end.”

On Friday, according to officials, Mr. Dear entered a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, killing three people and wounding nine others with a semiautomatic rifle. The attack, which ended with his surrender to the police after a harrowing nationally televised standoff in the snow-dusted Western city, was a brutally violent and very public chapter in a life story whose details are not fully known.

A pretty extreme example, to be sure.  But it illustrates, for me, what happens when obedience to God becomes a take-it-or-leave-it kind of thing.

Some further observations here (about the above article) :

Quote

And herein lies my biggest problem with not only Robert Dear, but all persons who espouse some doctrine of unchecked Once Saved Always Saved. How are you going to tell me that a person can claim to be a follower of the crucified Messiah, claim to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and yet live a life that is in complete and utter contradiction with everything that God stands for?

How can you have, as the article contends, “a man of religious conviction who sinned openly, a man who craved solitude and near-constant female company, a man who successfully wooed women but, some of them say, also abused them. [A man who] frequented marijuana websites, then argued with other posters, often through heated religious screeds” who is also a Christian?

This kind of thing, where a man can live in complete contradiction to the character of the gospel and yet still believe himself to be a Christian, is only possible because of a doctrine that is downright false. There is absolutely no point in all of Scripture where mere confession of belief warrants a free ticket to heaven no matter what one does in this life. You can ask Jesus into your heart 8 million times, but if you live the kind of life described above, you need to know that you are not a Christian.

This is what I find so problematic about the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved. It throws the entire gospel under the bus of the human need for security, however false that security may be. It offers certitude where none should be offered. It allows us to live how we want to live without demanding any conformity to the image of Christ, any growth in holiness, any perseverance.

Go, Wesleyans!

As for the Latter-day Saints, we "believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ..." (AoF 1:4)

Also consider Matthew 22:

Quote

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And again, John 14:15: "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

So it seems that belief (faith and love) predominate in terms of importance.  However, love is inextricably linked to behavior ("keep my commandments").

Thanks,

-Smac

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by smac97

[InCognitus]

18 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

What?  No takers?  I'm doing all that I can do from my youth up.  I'm keeping the commandments and faithful to my callings.

Obviously, we all agree there is nothing I can do to obtain your earthly inheritance.

So what makes mormons think Heavenly Father would be any different?

You've got this all wrong (as others have pointed out).  

But most people who go off on arguments like this don't understand that there are multiple meanings of the word "child", "son", or "Father" being used in scripture (i.e the Bible in this case).  

The two basic definitions of father - child that apply to this discussion are:

1. Literal father -> child:   a literal offspring, a literal genetic descendant 
2. Figurative behavioral father -> child:   the product or result of that which we serve

Definition #1 should be obvious.  Definition #2 is the one that people don't often think about.   But my favorite biblical passage of scripture that demonstrates both meanings of these words is in John 8:33-44, where Jesus is having an exchange with literal descendants of Abraham (Jews) who have it in their heart to kill him.  I won't quote the entire passage, but here's a summary showing how each of the above definitions are used in the exchange:

Key:  Definition #1 literal child/father is in Blue.  Definition #2, figurative behavioral "child" is in red:

#1 John 8:33, (The Jews) "We be Abraham's seed"
#2 John 8:34, (Jesus), "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin"
#1 John 8:37, (Jesus) "I know that ye are Abraham's seed"
#2 John 8:37, (Jesus) "but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you"
#1 John 8:39, (The Jews) "Abraham is our father"
#2 John 8:39, (Jesus) "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."
#2 John 8:41, (Jesus) "Ye do the deeds of your father"
#1 John 8:41, (The Jews) "we have one Father, even God"
#2 John 8:42, (Jesus) "If God were your Father, ye would love me"
#2 John 8:44, (Jesus) "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."

Note that Jesus says that their "father" is the devil, because of their behavior.  They can't be Abraham's "children" because they don't behave like Abraham, even though they are literally the descendants (children) of Abraham.

This is why we can be a child of God in a literal offspring and spiritual and creative sense, but still need to "become" his child in a behavioral sense.  And these ideas are used all through the scriptures.  

We are all children of God by definition #1 in that we are the very "genos" or offspring of God (Acts 17:28-29), and God is the "Father of spirits" (Heb 12:9).   But because of sin and our behavior, we are not automatically "sons of God" according to definition #2.  So we must "become" his children in that sense of the word, and that can only happen through the atonement of Jesus Christ.  This is why John 1:12-13 tells us (about Jesus):  "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Note that the verse doesn't say we automatically become sons of God by believing in Jesus, but we are given the power to become his sons.  And Jesus is using both definition #1 and #2 in the following passage to explain the behavior that leads to becoming the children of our Heavenly Father:

"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;  That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven" (Matt 5:44-45)

Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.  They are the ones who receive the inheritance.  

[Ahab]

17 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Your requirement is impossible.  No one here can say they are doing all they can do.

How many times does one have to lie to become a liar?

How many times does one have to steal to become a thief?  Have lust and hatred in one's heart to be an adulterer or a murderer?  One time.

Because keeping the commandments is no longer an option for a liar, a thief, an adulterer, a murderer, a whoremonger, you need a savior.

I thought you wanted to be added as a beneficiary to MY will.  That's what I was talking about.  And you can qualify if you want to.  I'm not asking anything from you that you can't do.

Show me you love me by doing whatever I tell you to do.  And if you mess up, confess that you messed up and try again to do whatever I tell you to do.  If you will simply do that, I will share everything I have with you.  Even if I do not die, of I rise from the dead and will still have everything I already have now, I will still share everything I have with you.  I will guarantee it.  All you have to do is whatever I tell you to do.  Oh, and there will be no "last" will and testament, since I may still declare my will and testify of what I know in the future, at any time I want to.

[smac97]

17 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Your requirement is impossible.  No one here can say they are doing all they can do.

How many times does one have to lie to become a liar?

Dunno.

17 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

How many times does one have to steal to become a thief?  Have lust and hatred in one's heart to be an adulterer or a murderer?  One time.

And then . . . repentance undoes it.

17 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Because keeping the commandments is no longer an option for a liar, a thief, an adulterer, a murderer, a whoremonger, you need a savior.

Not so.  Keeping the commandments in the main, and repenting when we fail to do so completely, is within our capacity.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

17 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

"Keep the commandments".  Does any do this? 

Yes.  Many people keep the commandments.  Imperfectly.

17 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

He doesn't say "Try your best to keep the commandments".

You don't even know all of the commandments.  How do you intend on keeping them? 

Striving.  And letting the Atonement cover sins of ignorance.

17 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

"It won't be easy" like you would even know.

"Repent, actually repent, regularly".

If you have to "repent regularly" then you didn't actually repent in the first place (D&C 58:43).   

"By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them."

The forsaking part can be a process.

Thanks,

-Smac