Is There a Way to Resign From Mormonism and Not Have Parents Informed of Resignation?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

Again, I think this kind of comes back to time/place/manner. There are tons of people who hold...less than orthodox views about any number of gospel related principles, and they are all welcome at church. 

They are welcome at church as long as they keep their mouth shut about it. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

On 1/27/2020 at 4:29 PM, lostindc said:

I would like to quietly resign from Mormonism without putting loved ones through the process of dealing with this resignation.  Apparently, parents, ex-spouses, etc. are informed of a their loved one's resignation (currently reported by many on exmo reddit, facebook groups, and those within my region.  Is there a way to quietly resign without leadership inflicting pain by announcing my resignation?

First no one is informed but they may notice if they have access to their membership records which used to list children with their membership record numbers on them (as noted by others). 
 

As someone who has recently resigned as well as recently told my four believing siblings and my very devout parents, I would encourage you decide who you are and who you want to be and simply be that person unapologetically. When I left the church, my parents tried to preach at me, sharing unsolicited testimony and ensign articles.  When I kindly but unapologetically let them know that either the preaching would be a two way street of sharing, or they could kindly butt out of my life, I was surprised at how quickly they backed off. 
 

My parents were extremely disappointed when I removed my name, but accepted it, just as I accept that their religion will always be a big part of their lives. 
 

I don’t know your circumstances and maybe keeping quiet is what you need to do for whatever reason (have an exmormon friend who bites tongue around their Mom because she is dying of cancer and doesn’t want to add drama). From where I’m at though, I think being yourself is the way to go. If they can’t handle that respectfully, it’s their loss. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

 

5 hours ago, Amulek said:

By analogy, it would be like not coming out to your devout LDS / Catholic parents that you are gay. Should you withhold that information from them just because they aren't going to take it well?

Should you try to deceive them into believe you are straight for the rest of their natural lives just to keep the peace?

There is no one right answer here but If you knew your parents were going to disown you because you came out to them, and you valued the relationship you have with them in spite of that knowledge, then no, you should do everything to avoid that confrontation. While you may label that deception, I label it discretion in pursuit of a greater goal. And by the way, I know those who are doing exactly this and who still continue to enjoy the company of their family because of it.

While I don’t judge people who do this (a friends brother is in this position), I think that honesty is a better way. There is a reason that homosexuality is no longer illegal and has broad acceptance around the world and that’s because brave individuals stood up to their judgmental parents friends and neighbors and were just honest with them. It’s easy to condemn a group when they’re “the others”, but way more difficult when it’s your own son, or Johnny down the street who used to shovel your driveway when it snowed. Honesty carries risks, but also great rewards. 

[CA Steve]

9 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

While I don’t judge people who do this (a friends brother is in this position), I think that honesty is a better way. There is a reason that homosexuality is no longer illegal and has broad acceptance around the world and that’s because brave individuals stood up to their judgmental parents friends and neighbors and were just honest with them. It’s easy to condemn a group when they’re “the others”, but way more difficult when it’s your own son, or Johnny down the street who used to shovel your driveway when it snowed. Honesty carries risks, but also great rewards.

Like I said, there is no one right answer. Would society in general be better off if everyone was openly honest about their sexual persuasion? Yes of course, but I am not going to judge  a person wanting to be quiet about it if he/she decides their immediate  relationships are more important than societal gains.

And outside of western civilization I am not convinced that acceptance is all that pervasive. Gay marriage is still illegal most of the world such as in Eastern Europe, Asia, Russia, all of the Middle East, parts of Central and South America and most of Africa. In a lot of those places it is dangerous to be honest about being gay.

[Tacenda]

27 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Like I said, there is no one right answer. Would society in general be better off if everyone was openly honest about their sexual persuasion? Yes of course, but I am not going to judge  a person wanting to be quiet about it if he/she decides their immediate  relationships are more important than societal gains.

And outside of western civilization I am not convinced that acceptance is all that pervasive. Gay marriage is still illegal most of the world such as in Eastern Europe, Asia, Russia, all of the Middle East, parts of Central and South America and most of Africa. In a lot of those places it is dangerous to be honest about being gay. 

And being something other than Muslim if that is your religion since birth...or, the opposite, being a Muslim, especially in the USA. 

Another thought on this...too many LDS think someone who leaves the church just wants to sin. So why give those kinds of people fuel for their imagination to run wild and get it completely wrong?

Edited January 30, 2020 by Tacenda

[Amulek]

11 hours ago, CA Steve said:

While she may think she wants me to be honest [...]

Wow. Just...wow. 

 

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[T]he reality is after 40 years of marriage I know she is more interested in having her confidence built up regarding how she looks.

In which case, and in agreement with what I said earlier, the question she is really asking isn't your personal opinion of the garment itself. The question she is asking is if you are willing to reassure her that she is still beautiful. She doesn't actually care what you personally think about the dress - she just wants to make sure that everything looks good and that she isn't about to go and embarrass herself in front of all her friends. So that is the question you should be answering honestly. And (as I said before), yes, she most definitely wants you to answer honestly.

 

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I am not sure if or how long you have been married but total honesty all the time is a quick route to divorce.

I have been married long enough to know that you can be honest with your spouse without being hurtful, and that honesty builds trust. It shows your partner that you trust them enough to be open with them and that you trust that your relationship is strong enough to get through even hard things together. 

 

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Maybe you welcome all those people back at church and are interested in hearing about their differing views, but there are a lot who do not and who are not interested in hearing different views about belief. Holding back on those views isn't dishonesty, it is being aware of the group within which you are participating and reacting accordingly. 

So, like I said: time/place/manner. Sunday School might not be the best place for one to share his heterodox ideas about Book of Mormon authorship, but when I'm visiting as a ministering brother I would be more than happy to hear about all the things he is thinking about, struggling with, etc. 

 

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What is wrong with trying to not hurt the feelings of your parents? Or more so trying not to alienate them? Of course that is a good enough reason.

Again, the question in my mind is "why" are you trying not to hurt the feelings of your parents. If a significant motivator in your decision making process is selfishness / self centeredness, then that isn't a good enough reason to be holding back in my opinion. 

And remember, we aren't talking about something like secretly not liking your mom's pork chop recipe here, we are talking about big, significant things in your life - things that those closest to you are probably going to find out about eventually anyway. And, when they do, they are then going to be even more upset that you didn't trust them to come to them with it in the first place. 

 

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There is no one right answer here but If you knew your parents were going to disown you because you came out to them, and you valued the relationship you have with them in spite of that knowledge, then no, you should do everything to avoid that confrontation. While you may label that deception, I label it discretion in pursuit of a greater goal. 

You can label it whatever you like, but what it is is avoidance. 

There may be rare circumstances where such avoidance may be justified, but for the most part it sounds like what we're really talking about is people who are not wanting to be inconvenienced by the consequences of their chosen actions.

 

[Amulek]

11 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

They are welcome at church as long as they keep their mouth shut about it. 

As I said: time/place/manner.

But there is no orthodoxy test that is required in order to retain ones membership in the church. 

 

[Amulek]

22 hours ago, Calm said:

How old are your parents, Amulek, and do they have health issues or are they relatively healthy?

Late seventies now. They both have some health issues but nothing that impairs their cognitive abilities. 

 

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And is your relationship relatively equal with them or do they relate more in a parent-child dynamic, still intent on fixing the problems in your life, protecting you, setting up a reward/punishment system to guide you into the behaviours they want you to have?

Relatively equal, though in some aspects of life my older siblings and I are shifting more into roles that involve supporting them in various ways (e.g., technology, medical decisions, estate issues, etc.). 

 

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I suspect personal experience has the biggest impact here, because I agree with you have said, yet I still have a range where I see silence as possibly the better way because it allows the relationship to continue in otherwise healthy paths.  There are areas where people are incapable of growth in their lives as their habits are so strong and they are unaware of the impact of them and can't handle the full truth and understanding that and not demanding they fit into a mold they can not belong in so that one can dump feelings of guilt or anger or out of a need to be completely, openly honest so that one can feel better about oneself is a loving, charitable choice.  

I can understand not wanting to say something to a loved one who legitimately won't be able to process it. And I am not blind to the reality that individual situations exist where discretion really is the better part of valor. 

But I think we should exercise caution when trying to determine whether or not we are really dealing with someone who is "incapable of growth." Are we really trying to do what's best based on some pre-existing limitation, or are we just trying to avoid confrontation in order to make our own life easier. 

 

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I would always suggest trying to communicate with others unless years and years of experience informed one that communication would lead to unnecessary pain that would get in the way of what healthy communication existed.  

I can agree with that sentiment. Though, I also believe very much in the healing power of the Atonement - such that even otherwise seemingly intractable souls might have their hearts softened when we express ourselves in openness and love. 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Amulek

[Storm Rider]

16 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

The reverse of this question could also be asked. Why do Latter-day Saints view the formality of name removal so offensive that their kids are scared to tell them. 

I think this was a similar response from the first comment to my entry. Who says it is so offensive? Where is that a proven fact. Would I be disappointed if one of our children removed their name from the rolls of the Church? Yes. Offended? Absolutely not! 

You are creating a strawman argument. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

43 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I think this was a similar response from the first comment to my entry. Who says it is so offensive? Where is that a proven fact. Would I be disappointed if one of our children removed their name from the rolls of the Church? Yes. Offended? Absolutely not! 

You are creating a strawman argument. 

Sorry if I was unclear. I’m responding to the sentiment here: why “formalize something that you have already done.” If the formalization was no big deal or had no value, members wouldn’t be saddened by it. 

[MustardSeed]

My child and their spouse left the church in the fall last year.  Records removed.  it was shocking and scary, initially.  I didn’t react to them though, rather we sent them notes indicating our love for them. In December I let them know that I never want our differences to get in the way of our relationship and that I don’t want to be protected from their thoughts and feelings. The only think I never want to see is them under the influence of alcohol because I hate being around annoying drunk people. 

recently my child took me to breakfast and tiptoed around the possibility of opening my mind to their ways of thinking.  I let them know I had no need for enlightenment, that I’d already done the work, and was choosing my lifestyle based on intelligent AND spiritual preference.  They were not aware I had done the work. 
 

we now agree to not attempt to change the other but to be with each other where we stand. That feels correct to me. I don’t feel worried any more. 
 

I suspect the panic I initially felt was at the idea of losing him , here and now.  Knowing he is still with me and mine is all I need.  The good Lord will not punish me for someone else’s decisions in the after life.  He is fair. All will be well, I trust. 

Ps my child reports they have been scared to tell me our entire lives that they have not believed things. This breaks my heart.  I wish I had made it safer for them to talk to me.

Edited January 31, 2020 by MustardSeed

[Rain]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

My child and their spouse left the church in the fall last year.  Records removed.  it was shocking and scary, initially.  I didn’t react to them though, rather we sent them notes indicating our love for them. In December I let them know that I never want our differences to get in the way of our relationship and that I don’t want to be protected from their thoughts and feelings. The only think I never want to see is them under the influence of alcohol because I hate being around annoying drunk people. 

recently my child took me to breakfast and tiptoed around the possibility of opening my mind to their ways of thinking.  I let them know I had no need for enlightenment, that I’d already done the work, and was choosing my lifestyle based on intelligent AND spiritual preference.  They were not aware I had done the work. 
 

we now agree to not attempt to change the other but to be with each other where we stand. That feels correct to me. I don’t feel worried any more. 
 

I suspect the panic I initially felt was at the idea of losing him , here and now.  Knowing he is still with me and mine is all I need.  The good Lord will not punish me for someone else’s decisions in the after life.  He is fair. All will be well, I trust. 

Ps my child reports they have been scared to tell me our entire lives that they have not believed things. This breaks my heart.  I wish I had made it safer for them to talk to me.

It is definitely important to try to make things safe for them, but sometimes it is not always up to us. Sometimes they just need to experience things that help them make that choice.  I have one child that will talk to me about everything, another who tells me very little and a third child that tells me things in between. 

Heavenly Father makes things safe for us, but I've found myself afraid to go to Him on occasion. Later I wonder what took me so long! 

[poptart]

On 1/27/2020 at 5:25 PM, Calm said:

I don't tell some of my family all my specific choices on how to approach medical issues, while they know the gist, because some like to give advice that is counterproductive and I am tired of that being our conversation.  If his family know the general direction of his beliefs, I don't see it as misleading by leaving out some of the details to avoid the sense of 'rubbing their nose in it'.  

My daughter asked us if she should resign because she has no personal belief in the Gospel.  I suggested for now she might not want to as there are negative associations with resigning currently (making a statement) such that some family members might get the wrong idea about what she is doing.  She sees the Church as having no authority over her while appreciating the efforts of members to be supportive of her and her family, so it is no big deal to her to stay on the books.

This is also why I never committed to the Christian religion here stateside or any of it's variants, the cost of entry tends to be high, the risk/reward is skewed and the exit costs can be quite awful.  Add in that I just never believed as people here do and well, there it is.  Don't get me wrong, lots of good LDS people as well as other Christians but when I think about how my life has been and how mean a lot of people are anymore, well yeah hard pass for me.  When I look at how many people are becoming nones, I sometimes wonder if those who are still religious ever ask themselves if it's because of the nasty behavior a lot of their own have towards those who leave as well as those who don't believe as they do. Know I may get flack over this but so be it, i've known people who were disowned by religious families and in a few cases their jobs put at risk by religious co-workers and supervisors.  Wish people would just play nice.

Edited January 31, 2020 by poptart

[Calm]

36 minutes ago, poptart said:

the exit costs can be quite awful.

In the case of my family, the "costs" would be her knowing that some were worrying about her and she doesn't want them to be, especially if that leads to any fussing (as in being overly kind, not critical).  She needs to be treated as normal even though she knows she is not.  We have had a few family members withdraw from family and church at the same time in ways that are very abnormal for both events and I think family members may therefore think there may be something else going on besides simple disbelief (and given my daughter's health issues, including severe anxiety and depression, that would understandable, but wrong).

Edited January 31, 2020 by Calm

[Stargazer]

On 1/28/2020 at 4:07 PM, Amulek said:

I'm an LDS boss. Why would I care if one of my employees changed religions? 

There ARE jerks who are LDS bosses out there.

[Amulek]

55 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

There ARE jerks who are LDS bosses out there.

I suppose. But if you are having to hide the fact that you've left the church from your employer because your boss is so spiteful / vindictive that you won't be able to be treated fairly at work any longer, then you are working in a toxic environment and should be looking for another job anyway. 

On the flip side, if you are trying to hide the fact that you have left the church from your employer because membership was a condition of your employment (e.g., CES), then you should have the integrity to simply leave of your own accord. 

 

[Garden Girl]

16 hours ago, Amulek said:

I suppose. But if you are having to hide the fact that you've left the church from your employer because your boss is so spiteful / vindictive that you won't be able to be treated fairly at work any longer, then you are working in a toxic environment and should be looking for another job anyway. 

On the flip side, if you are trying to hide the fact that you have left the church from your employer because membership was a condition of your employment (e.g., CES), then you should have the integrity to simply leave of your own accord. 

 

This makes me angry because there are laws against this type of workplace discrimination... even more so if the boss is LDS...  and I would hope that anyone experiencing such treatment would take legal action if it continued... bosses/employers know this is unacceptable, even subject to state/federal laws...

GG 

[oremites]

On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 10:50 PM, Tacenda said:

And being something other than Muslim if that is your religion since birth...or, the opposite, being a Muslim, especially in the USA. 

The above was a reply to CA Steve saying, "In a lot of those places it is dangerous to be honest about being gay. "

I just want to defend the honor of the USA by pointing out that not only is it not especially dangerous to be a Muslim in the USA, it's not dangerous at all.

Everybody have a great day.

[Rain]

10 hours ago, oremites said:

The above was a reply to CA Steve saying, "In a lot of those places it is dangerous to be honest about being gay. "

I just want to defend the honor of the USA by pointing out that not only is it not especially dangerous to be a Muslim in the USA, it's not dangerous at all.

Everybody have a great day.

As this is social hall I will not argue this further, but my experiences with Muslims in the US give me a different perspective.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Rain said:

As this is social hall I will not argue this further,

I will....but without commentary.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamophobic_incidents

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/aug/03/omar-rachid/US-Muslims-more-attacks-hate-crimes-than-ever-be/

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2018/topic-pages/victims

[poptart]

On 1/31/2020 at 3:43 PM, Calm said:

In the case of my family, the "costs" would be her knowing that some were worrying about her and she doesn't want them to be, especially if that leads to any fussing (as in being overly kind, not critical).  She needs to be treated as normal even though she knows she is not.  We have had a few family members withdraw from family and church at the same time in ways that are very abnormal for both events and I think family members may therefore think there may be something else going on besides simple disbelief (and given my daughter's health issues, including severe anxiety and depression, that would understandable, but wrong).

Sounds like you have a good family, you're fortunate.

On 2/13/2020 at 10:18 AM, Stargazer said:

There ARE jerks who are LDS bosses out there.

If I was in that position and had a boss like that, that's when I'd be reaching out to every LGBT center in the city, esp their twitters via tor/an anon account and running my mouth off as much as possible.  Depending on the state (if it's one party/two party) i'd record it and spread it everywhere.  I hate bullies, religious ones the most.  I may not believe like a lot of you do but last time I checked Jesus hung out with the least of these, not uppity entitled suburbanites.  Not to rehash and open old wounds but those tactics worked quite well against prop 8 and ended up with gay marriage being ruled on by the supreme court during the Obama administration.  If the bigots out there would like to play that game again and lose in an even more ironic and hilarious fashion, all for it.  It's always entertaining to watch the bad guys loose.

On 2/15/2020 at 10:36 PM, Rain said:

As this is social hall I will not argue this further, but my experiences with Muslims in the US give me a different perspective.

 

On 2/16/2020 at 1:55 AM, Calm said:

I will....but without commentary.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamophobic_incidents

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/aug/03/omar-rachid/US-Muslims-more-attacks-hate-crimes-than-ever-be/

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2018/topic-pages/victims

There are terrorists out there but most of the Muslims who I've met are fantastic people.  The racist relatives I have complain about the Islamic center where they live, the muslim housing they have etc.  Whenever I've brought up ideas like why don't they and whatever Christian church they claim membership to does something, the entitlement and racism always pours out.  Makes me sick.