Ahab Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: Creeps will proposition women regardless of attire. And I still challenge you to provide evidence that "creeps" will be more likely to proposition "scantily-clad" women. I would say that creeps will be most likely to seek vulnerable targets, however they perceive vulnerability. All i have to offer as evidence of that is all I have learned from and about the many creeps that I have known. They're not all the same, but for some it's like waving something in front of them that they really like, making it more obvious than it would be if it was more under wraps. And for some scanty clothing is even more provocative than if the woman were totally nude. Anything less than a full burka or a full length dress is more provocative than a full burka or full length dress, and for most anything slightly more than naked is better than a full burka or full length dress. It's quite a sight to behold a creep in full panting mode Like a male dog in heat they are almost pulled toward the woman unless there is a fence or something between them that can prevent him from going to her. Full body armor on a woman will usually stop him cold.
Tacenda Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ahab said: What women wear can cause "sex" to happen with men who are willing to have sex with women. It's rape if women don't want it to happen, but women should realize that when they wear scanty clothing they are provoking creeps to want to have sex with them. And I define a creep as a man who does not know or does not care that sex should be limited to a man and his wife who are legally and lawfully married and who agree to have sex with each other. The notion that a woman is walking porn if she isn't dressed modestly is a problem, which btw runs the gamut with the different perceptions of what modest is. Where a male might think, "Well, she's asking for it, since I've been told they are walking porn". That is where the danger lies. But this article says rape victims are often wearing lots of clothing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/04/13/why-dress-codes-cant-stop-sexual-assault/ Edited October 31, 2019 by Tacenda
Ahab Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: So, is a man who has been living with his girlfriend for 4 years, with whom he has a 2 year old child, a creep for wanting to have sex with his girlfriend because they are not married? Yes. If you were to ask me. Which you did.
pogi Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Nevermind Edited October 31, 2019 by pogi
Meadowchik Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ahab said: All i have to offer as evidence of that is all I have learned from and about the many creeps that I have known. They're not all the same, but for some it's like waving something in front of them that they really like, making it more obvious than it would be if it was more under wraps. And for some scanty clothing is even more provocative than if the woman were totally nude. Anything less than a full burka or a full length dress is more provocative than a full burka or full length dress, and for most anything slightly more than naked is better than a full burka or full length dress. It's quite a sight to behold a creep in full panting mode Like a male dog in heat they are almost pulled toward the woman unless there is a fence or something between them that can prevent him from going to her. Full body armor on a woman will usually stop him cold. So again, have you warned those creeps that their behavior is dangerous? 1
Ahab Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, bluebell said: If you did that, there is a high likelihood that woman would think you were the creep. Yeah, well, some people have different definitions than I do about what a creep is. For some it's just a matter of people not minding what others think is their own business, as if others have any business defining what another person's business is.
Ahab Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Meadowchik said: So again, have you warned those creeps that their behavior is dangerous? When I see men acting like creeps, yes, I usually let them know. I'm not on any official creep patrol though and I don't go out of my way to look for creeps wherever they can be found. I just know where some are and advise people to stay away if scantily dressed.
pogi Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jake Starkey said: Do not comment publicly or shame a woman publicly about her clothing. Agreed. Public or private shaming is never appropriate. Is it your position however that there is NEVER a scenario where it might be appropriate for a church leader to have a private conversation (or with parents) about how a person (male or female) may be dressed inappropriately, in violation of church standards? Edited October 31, 2019 by pogi
Jeanne Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Meadowchik said: It can become quite ridiculous: https://100hourboard.org/questions/24027/ I remember being a BYU student and changing my bookbag strap to avoid "accentuation" of my figure, even if a crossed strap was better for my back. It gets to a point as a female where you're basically trying to look like you don't have breasts. Seriously?? A bookstrap...I would have liked to wrap it around this guy and tell him it works as a jock strap too! I am sorry...this makes me so angry.
Meadowchik Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ahab said: When I see men acting like creeps, yes, I usually let them know. I'm not on any official creep patrol though and I don't go out of my way to look for creeps wherever they can be found. I just know where some are and advise people to stay away if scantily dressed. If you are aware of creeps in a certain situation, you might have inadequately warned people, since people can be targeted regardless of their attire.
Popular Post bluebell Posted October 31, 2019 Popular Post Posted October 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ahab said: Yeah, well, some people have different definitions than I do about what a creep is. For some it's just a matter of people not minding what others think is their own business, as if others have any business defining what another person's business is. That's not what I meant. What I meant is that for most women, it is really uncomfortable to have a man, any man, point out that their body is sexually stimulating to some people, regardless of why he is doing it. It's hard, if you are a male, not to come off as a creep when you single a woman out because her attire is too sexually pleasing to males. 6
Meadowchik Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 23 minutes ago, Tacenda said: The notion that a woman is walking porn if she isn't dressed modestly, which btw runs the gamut with differen perceptions of what is modest to where a male might think, "well, she's asking for it, since I've been told they are walking porn". And that is where the danger lies. But this article says rape victims are often wearing lots of clothing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/04/13/why-dress-codes-cant-stop-sexual-assault/ Exactly. Such objectifying notions reinforce dangerous, objectifying behaviors. 1
Ahab Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: If you are aware of creeps in a certain situation, you might have inadequately warned people, since people can be targeted regardless of their attire. Does that bother you? Do you want me to establish an organization with the sole purpose of warning women about creeps in this world? With a branch that seeks out creeps to tell them to stop being such creeps? Would you be willing to help with funding? Would it help if your donation was tax deductible? How many people would you like me to hire for each branch of my newly established organization, when it is established? This is starting to sound like a lot of work. I'm not sure I want to do this. At least not on a professional basis. Neh, I'll just do it in my spare time when I run across a creep or what I perceive to be a potential creep target. Women of the world: beware of all creeps and try to dress as modestly as you can. Thus ends my world-wide marketing campaign.
Ahab Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, bluebell said: That's not what I meant. What I meant is that for most women, it is really uncomfortable to have a man, any man, point out that their body is sexually stimulating to some people, regardless of why he is doing it. It's hard, if you are a male, not to come off as a creep when you single a woman out because her attire is too sexually pleasing to males. I understand that and sympathize, but I'd rather have a woman think I am a creep to try to warn her about creeps than to just say nothing and let her take her own chances without me saying anything at all to her. And now with my last breath, here, I now say Adieu!
Meadowchik Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ahab said: Does that bother you? Do you want me to establish an organization with the sole purpose of warning women about creeps in this world? With a branch that seeks out creeps to tell them to stop being such creeps? Would you be willing to help with funding? Would it help if your donation was tax deductible? How many people would you like me to hire for each branch of my newly established organization, when it is established? This is starting to sound like a lot of work. I'm not sure I want to do this. At least not on a professional basis. Neh, I'll just do it in my spare time when I run across a creep or what I perceive to be a potential creep target. Women of the world: beware of all creeps and try to dress as modestly as you can. Thus ends my world-wide marketing campaign. That is objectifying and therefore harmful to people. You are implying a falsehood when you tell women to dress modestly to be more safe. This has many harmful consequences. The more moral focus is to "campaign" against rape and sexual harassment, and educate young and old on the meaning of consent and its importance. 4
MiserereNobis Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 25 minutes ago, Ahab said: Yes. If you were to ask me. Which you did. A personal private definition of a word that no one else shares becomes a stumbling block in communication, fyi. Oh, never mind. I'm not going down the linguistic rabbit hole with you again. Bon voyage! 3
Meadowchik Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ahab said: I understand that and sympathize, but I'd rather have a woman think I am a creep to try to warn her about creeps than to just say nothing and let her take her own chances without me saying anything at all to her. And now with my last breath, here, I now say Adieu! And yet you very likely contributed to harming those women you "warned" for supposedly attracting creeps with their attire. A significant portion of women are sexually assaulted, so chances are that at least one of them that you "warned" was assaulted at some point (and again, regardless of their attire) but you having planted that idea in their minds or reinforced it can lead to them blaming themselves, and even feeling like they don't have the right to complain, resist, or press charges when a crime has been committed. Please do not do that. 1
Ahab Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: That is objectifying and therefore harmful to people. You are implying a falsehood when you tell women to dress modestly to be more safe. This has many harmful consequences. The more moral focus is to "campaign" against rape and sexual harassment, and educate young and old on the meaning of consent and its importance. Oh, so you want to know my message is to men who act like creeps, too? Creeps of the world: Stop acting like creeps! Thus ends my world-wide marketing campaign to try to help creeps to no longer be creeps. (which seems kind of silly, since there will always be creeps regardless of what I can say to try to stop them from being that way). The reason women should dress as modestly as they can, as I was trying to explain before, is that scanty clothing on a woman is like fuel to a fire for a creep. It only gets them more excited about waiting to have sex with women. Better to keep women more covered up.
Ahab Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: And yet you very likely contributed to harming those women you "warned" for supposedly attracting creeps with their attire. A significant portion of women are sexually assaulted, so chances are that at least one of them that you "warned" was assaulted at some point (and again, regardless of their attire) but you having planted that idea in their minds or reinforced it can lead to them blaming themselves, and even feeling like they don't have the right to complain, resist, or press charges when a crime has been committed. Please do not do that. Women of the world: You can continue to complain about creeps, resist them, and even press charges against them to the full extent of the law. I never said you couldn't do that. Also, realize that creeps want you for your bodies so please be careful about how you show yourselves to them! I hope my world-wide marketing campaign is now over. I really don't know how I got into this mess. All I did was say something and then people keep asking me questions and commenting about my comments and then the comments kept going as I responded to the comments and then... Sheesh! I need a break from all this!
Popular Post bluebell Posted October 31, 2019 Popular Post Posted October 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Ahab said: I hope my world-wide marketing campaign is now over. I really don't know how I got into this mess. All I did was say something and then people keep asking me questions and commenting about my comments and then the comments kept going as I responded to the comments and then... Sheesh! I need a break from all this! So, we treated your comments as if they were made on a discussion board and up for discussion. 6
Popular Post bsjkki Posted October 31, 2019 Popular Post Posted October 31, 2019 Just an F.Y.I. Most likely, if you approach a woman, a parent of a teenage girl, or a teenage girl and comment that her clothing choices are inappropriate, most women will assume you are the pervert. I would avoid doing that. 8
california boy Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 I haven't made any comments on this thread, nor have I read every comment. This is because there is really nothing that needs to be said. Women are not in any way responsible for how a man behaves or any thoughts he might have. The MAN is responsible for his own thoughts and actions. Period. No matter what a woman wears, there will always be someone that finds what she is wearing as alluring. I keep thinking of a quote I heard many years ago by Apostle Matthew Cowley. He was talking about the Navajo women who dressed full length velvet dresses. He was commenting on their modesty and then say this. "They leave everything to the imagination." Think about that. He was basically saying that no matter what a woman wears, some men, in this case an apostle, will look upon a woman as a sex object. I can also say this. I have never seen a woman dressed in a way that provokes me in a sexual way. Yes I am gay. But doesn't that tell you that the problem is with the men who are sexually attracted to women and has nothing to do with what they are wearing?
rodheadlee Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 Wow 34 pages when it's pretty simple. Men are stimulated visually and women are not. This isn't mansplaining either this after a discussion with my wife of 46 years.
MiserereNobis Posted October 31, 2019 Posted October 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, rodheadlee said: Men are stimulated visually and women are not. This isn't mansplaining either this after a discussion with my wife of 46 years. Your wife isn't visually stimulated by you..? But in seriousness, it's crazy to say that woman don't find men visually attractive and that a good looking man doesn't stimulate them. 3
Popular Post Jake Starkey Posted October 31, 2019 Popular Post Posted October 31, 2019 I have had seven sister, two daughters, and seven granddaughters. They would disagree, I think, with the idea women are not visually stimulated. 5
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