nuclearfuels Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/14/2019 at 1:50 PM, mnn727 said: A while back it was announced that the Church was working on new Hymnals -- anyone have any updates on that? Is there an email to send in suggested additional verses? I've burrowed so deep in Primary for so many years, additional verses have arisen in class, many times
bluebell Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 19 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Diminishing the selection is the wrong move, imo. Variety is the spice of life. And I will always come down on the side of flexibility and ample selection. I don’t like how music is starting to get short-shrift in the Church. Often as not in our ward these days we ditch the intermediate hymn because there’s not enough time for it and the scheduled speakers. There’s no more hymn singing in priesthood meeting. Don’t know how it is in Relief Society. I like singing and I like hymns, but the intermediate hymn is the worst part of my sacrament meeting. I'm always so excited when one isn't scheduled. Part of it is definitely because being forced to stand and sing while holding/managing little kids is not at all enjoyable. I think the other issue for me is that, for whatever reason, the intermediate song doesn't seem to provide anything of value to the meeting. It doesn't seem to increase the spirit, it's not usually sung with any emotion, and it's not often all that pretty to listen too. Perhaps some new arrangements of old songs could help us get out of the hymn rut that most wards are in. 1
ksfisher Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, bluebell said: I like singing and I like hymns, but the intermediate hymn is the worst part of my sacrament meeting. I'm always so excited when one isn't scheduled. Part of it is definitely because being forced to stand and sing while holding/managing little kids is not at all enjoyable. I think the other issue for me is that, for whatever reason, the intermediate song doesn't seem to provide anything of value to the meeting. It doesn't seem to increase the spirit, it's not usually sung with any emotion, and it's not often all that pretty to listen too. Perhaps some new arrangements of old songs could help us get out of the hymn rut that most wards are in. I've always liked standing up and singing between talks, as long as it isn't one of the funeral dirge like hymns. The lively ones are great when you've been sitting for awhile. 1
bluebell Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, ksfisher said: I've always liked standing up and singing between talks, as long as it isn't one of the funeral dirge like hymns. The lively ones are great when you've been sitting for awhile. I hear you, and I'm sure there are many who agree. For myself, I'm honestly not sure which hymns count as lively. There are some that are sung at a faster tempo, but they still always seem to sound like we are singing them under duress. There's words and notes and everyone is very dutiful, but hardly any real feeling to the endeavor. And I still question the usefulness of singing a hymn if the only purpose is to stretch our legs after sitting for 40 minutes.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bluebell said: I like singing and I like hymns, but the intermediate hymn is the worst part of my sacrament meeting. I'm always so excited when one isn't scheduled. Part of it is definitely because being forced to stand and sing while holding/managing little kids is not at all enjoyable. I think the other issue for me is that, for whatever reason, the intermediate song doesn't seem to provide anything of value to the meeting. It doesn't seem to increase the spirit, it's not usually sung with any emotion, and it's not often all that pretty to listen too. Perhaps some new arrangements of old songs could help us get out of the hymn rut that most wards are in. I know customs are apt to vary from unit to unit, but I think it has been decades since I was in a ward where the custom was to have congregation stand to sing the intermediate hymn. It's done in stake conferences where I live, but not in ward meetings. As for value provided, it is worth it just to have a break in what can be a ponderous drone of spoken sermons (though I admit, with only an hour of meeting time now, that's not the issue it once was). I believe there's as much of the Spirit in a good hymn well sung as there is in a typical sacrament meeting sermon. Regarding new arrangements, I wouldn't like it if a new arrangement compelled me to sing the melody. I'm comfortable singing the bass line, mostly because nearly all of our hymns are arranged in a key that does not very well match my vocal range if I have to sing the lead line. I either have to strain to reach the notes or sing it a couple of octaves lower than written, neither of which is at all enjoyable to me. Edited October 15, 2019 by Scott Lloyd 2
Scott Lloyd Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, bluebell said: I hear you, and I'm sure there are many who agree. For myself, I'm honestly not sure which hymns count as lively. There are some that are sung at a faster tempo, but they still always seem to sound like we are singing them under duress. There's words and notes and everyone is very dutiful, but hardly any real feeling to the endeavor. And I still question the usefulness of singing a hymn if the only purpose is to stretch our legs after sitting for 40 minutes. I wonder if that's because the music director leads them at too slow of a tempo (or the accompanist doesn't take direction). Each hymn has a metronome marking or range. That's a good guideline that is pretty much universally ignored. Many of the hymns, if done halfway competently, are guaranteed to refresh or enliven me, such as "High on the Mountain Top," "How Firm a Foundation" and "Hark, All Ye Nations." 1
ksfisher Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: I wonder if that's because the music director leads them at too slow of a tempo Bingo
bluebell Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I wonder if that's because the music director leads them at too slow of a tempo (or the accompanist doesn't take direction). Each hymn has a metronome marking or range. That's a good guideline that is pretty much universally ignored. Many of the hymns, if done halfway competently, are guaranteed to refresh or enliven me, such as "High on the Mountain Top," "How Firm a Foundation" and "Hark, All Ye Nations." I don't know, both are professionals in singing and the organ/piano. The organist especially is very good at those hymns that require a nice fanfare. She makes us feel it. But honestly, I've had this same opinion in every ward I've been a member of (which is over 10, in four different states). It's probably mostly me. I just don't think I appreciate lively organ music. It could be played at breakneck speed and it still sounds like someone's funeral to me (a lively funeral, but someone's still dead regardless). 1
bluebell Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I know customs are apt to vary from unit to unit, but I think it has been decades since I was in a ward where the custom was to have congregation stand to sing the intermediate hymn. It's done in stake conferences where I live, but not in ward meetings. As for value provided, it is worth it just to have a break in what can be a ponderous drone of spoken sermons (though I admit, with only an hour of meeting time now, that's not the issue it once was). I believe there's as much of the Spirit in a good hymn well sung as there is in a typical sacrament meeting sermon. Regarding new arrangements, I wouldn't like it if a new arrangement compelled me to sing the melody. I'm comfortable singing the bass line, mostly because nearly all of our hymns are arranged in a key that does not very well match my vocal range if I have to sing the lead line. I either have to strain to reach the notes or sing it a couple of octaves lower than written, neither of which is at all enjoyable to me. I've lived in four states and I've yet to have to sing an intermediate hymn where we were not asked to stand. I'd probably enjoy them more if we didn't have to. And our ward chorister is especially enamored with making us stand. He's quite pointed about it, actually. I do think that an intermediate hymn makes sense when we've had talks for an hour, like in General or Stake conference. With the schedule now though, we've usually only had one talk (or two short ones) when it's time to sing again. And then we sing again after the next talk (the closing hymn). That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: I know customs are apt to vary from unit to unit, but I think it has been decades since I was in a ward where the custom was to have congregation stand to sing the intermediate hymn. We stand. 1 hour ago, bluebell said: I'd probably enjoy them more if we didn't have to. And our ward chorister is especially enamored with making us stand. He's quite pointed about it, actually. Weird. We have all kinds of people not join in standing: the elderly, parents holding children, grumpy people who don't like singing intermediate hymns full stop ... 2
MiserereNobis Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 Since you now have a temple in Rome perhaps you'd like to include some Roman culture in your new hymnal. I've got a couple of fantastic Gregorian chants that I could recommend that, I'm pretty sure, wouldn't have any doctrinal issues ("O Come O Come Emmanuel," for example). If you can do a Nigerian song, can't you do a Latin one? As a side question, do you know if the Tabernacle Choir has ever done Gregorian chant?
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 58 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: "O Come O Come Emmanuel," for example. My first ward on my mission sang that one at Christmastime!
sunstoned Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 12 hours ago, Ahab said: Do you mean like this: https://www.lds.org/music/library/hymns or like the one we have on our LDS Tools app? Yes! I was unaware of these apps. Perhaps devices (tablets?) with the app installed could replace physical song books in the chapel. The meeting program and other announcements could be part of the app. The deacons could hand the tablets out and collect them after the meeting was over. Just my 0.02
Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 11 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: Is there an email to send in suggested additional verses? I've burrowed so deep in Primary for so many years, additional verses have arisen in class, many times There was a Churchwide invitation to submit original work — words and/or music — for consideration. But that was some time ago, and I’m afraid the time might have passed by now. Others may correct me if I’m wrong.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: Since you now have a temple in Rome perhaps you'd like to include some Roman culture in your new hymnal. I've got a couple of fantastic Gregorian chants that I could recommend that, I'm pretty sure, wouldn't have any doctrinal issues ("O Come O Come Emmanuel," for example). If you can do a Nigerian song, can't you do a Latin one? As a side question, do you know if the Tabernacle Choir has ever done Gregorian chant? When I was our ward choir director, I had us do that one at Christmastime, both for our stake Christmas devotional and later for our ward Christmas sacrament meeting. I would be surprised if the Tabernacle Choir had not done any Gregorian chants. They’ve pretty much explored the gamut of devotional, classical, patriotic, folk and world music. They’ve even performed with James Taylor and with Sting.
Calm Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) Deadline was July 1, 2019 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/new-music/how-to-submit?lang=eng However, I assume the Friend and possibly other church mags take new music still as they have in the past. The problem with adding verses though is who currently owns the original work as it would be viewed as an alteration, I am guessing. Edited October 16, 2019 by Calm
Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Calm said: Deadline was July 1, 2019 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/new-music/how-to-submit?lang=eng However, I assume the Friend and possibly other church mags take new music still as they have in the past. The problem with adding verses though is who currently owns the original work as it would be viewed as an alteration, I am guessing. I once had occasion to interview Naomi Randall, author of the words to "I Am a Child of God." This was well over 30 years ago; she has since passed on. But the song had already become iconic in the Church of Jesus Christ. I asked her how she felt about people writing their own ad hoc verses for the song. She did not like it one bit, and she was not shy about telling me so.
Ahab Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 11 hours ago, sunstoned said: Yes! I was unaware of these apps. Perhaps devices (tablets?) with the app installed could replace physical song books in the chapel. The meeting program and other announcements could be part of the app. The deacons could hand the tablets out and collect them after the meeting was over. Just my 0.02 Or people could just use their phones, having already downloaded the LDS Tools app on it. Most people carry theirs with them if they have one and that's what I use when I don't have a paper version of the hymn book handy.
ksfisher Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 12 hours ago, sunstoned said: Yes! I was unaware of these apps. Perhaps devices (tablets?) with the app installed could replace physical song books in the chapel. The meeting program and other announcements could be part of the app. The deacons could hand the tablets out and collect them after the meeting was over. Just my 0.02 Cheaper to print hymn books. 2
MustardSeed Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 18 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: We stand We never have, except for national holiday songs.
Rain Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 Before the 2 hour change we almost always had an intermediate hymn even when we had 3 adult speakers and 2 youth. Now we have it about once a month. Before the change we only stood once every year or two. I can't remember a time standing since the change. 1
mnn727 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 2:04 PM, bluebell said: I like singing and I like hymns, but the intermediate hymn is the worst part of my sacrament meeting. I'm always so excited when one isn't scheduled. Part of it is definitely because being forced to stand and sing while holding/managing little kids is not at all enjoyable. I think the other issue for me is that, for whatever reason, the intermediate song doesn't seem to provide anything of value to the meeting. It doesn't seem to increase the spirit, it's not usually sung with any emotion, and it's not often all that pretty to listen too. Perhaps some new arrangements of old songs could help us get out of the hymn rut that most wards are in. No one FORCES you to stand, however many of us like to stretch.
bluebell Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, mnn727 said: No one FORCES you to stand, however many of us like to stretch. I'm sorry if i gave the impression that someone actually forces people to stand in my ward during the intermediate hymns on Sunday. 1
sunstoned Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 8 hours ago, ksfisher said: Cheaper to print hymn books. But not cheaper to update hymnals.
sunstoned Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Ahab said: Or people could just use their phones, having already downloaded the LDS Tools app on it. Most people carry theirs with them if they have one and that's what I use when I don't have a paper version of the hymn book handy. When I taught a class or gave a talk, I always used by tablet. I could look up any scripture or reference very quickly.
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