Scott Lloyd Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 5 hours ago, JAHS said: Instructions in the handbook (1999) say: "The woman’s veil should be placed on the head with the shorter underveil next to the head, or the short ruffled part (if the veil has a cap) at the back of the neck, and with part of the hair showing below the veil over the forehead. The body of the veil may be softly draped on the pillow at the back of the head until time to close the casket, at which time it is drawn over the face by someone who is approved by the bishop. In no instance should a flower or jewelry be placed on the temple clothing. If desired, a white handkerchief may be placed in a woman’s hand." INSTRUCTIONS FOR CLOTHING THE DEAD WHO HAVE RECEIVED THEIR ENDOWMENTS I know putting the veil over the face just before closing the casket has been a tradition for a long time. T The above statement sounds like it's an actual policy requiring Bishop's approval that is supposed to be followed. Not sure why anyone would put a white handkerchief in the hand. I was just wondering if it had been mandatory in the past. If not, that would make this what we in the trade call a “non-story.”
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I was just wondering if it had been mandatory in the past. 'The body of the veil may be softly draped on the pillow at the back of the head until time to close the casket, at which time it is drawn over the face by someone who is approved by the bishop'.
sunstoned Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 4 hours ago, JLHPROF said: At this point what difference would it make. Nothing is sacred any more. The temple ceremony that my parents knew, and the vail that my mother was buried with, in accordance to the CHI has all changed.
mfbukowski Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I would wish for it based on my personal understanding of the symbolism. Of course, that's presuming I have a burial at all. My current 'end of life plan' involves taking a final camping trip and letting the wild animals take care of the rest. I kind of like that too actually. I have always been drawn to Native American customs- which parallel Zoroastrian/Parsi beliefs- that the body is placed on a platform and consumed by birds. I definitely want my matter to be absorbed into nature/the earth in some matter except I do not like the idea of cremation It's too much like living along the Gulf Coast of Texas in the summer. 3
MustardSeed Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 4 hours ago, JLHPROF said: At this point what difference would it make. Nothing is sacred any more. That’s too bad. I think a lot of things are sacred. 1
JLHPROF Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: That’s too bad. I think a lot of things are sacred. A lot of things are sacred to me too. Sadly my Church keeps discarding them. There's almost nothing held in reverence any more. It can all be dropped at any time. Sometimes I really do feel like going inactive. Not sure I am actually willing to give Church up yet though. I enjoy the spirit in the meetings and it's still God's Church. Edited January 30, 2019 by JLHPROF
MustardSeed Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 I’m sorry you feel let down. Change can be really difficult. Testimony is not easily come by. But I hope you find peace in the things that are constant and predictable.
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: I definitely want my matter to be absorbed into nature/the earth in some matter except I do not like the idea of cremation I like it even less after becoming friends with a man who was working at the crematorium. Nothing natural about it at all. 1
jcake Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 If I remember, the early saints in the Salt Lake Valley were oft times were buried in a shroud, any clothes they left behind would have been passed on to family or others needing clothing. That was just the practical thing to do. I believe that customs and traditions that have developed over the years can be comforting and therefore of value to the deceased person's loved ones. Some people frown on cremation, some people are repelled by the indignities a body being embalmed undergoes in the traditions that became popular during the Civil War and continue today. I'm not sure that God prefers that temple clothing is burned in a cremation. I just hope people can do what they feel is respectful to the remains of their loved ones. For financial reasons, as well as preferring to become ashes and dust more quickly, I plan to be cremated. I have a strong aversion to embalming and burial in a way that prevents nature taking its course. But that's just me. 1
JLHPROF Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: I’m sorry you feel let down. Change can be really difficult. Testimony is not easily come by. But I hope you find peace in the things that are constant and predictable. I just keep hoping and praying. Truthfully it would take something truly major to make me choose inactivity. But some of those things are now being speculatively predicted. At some point the Church may change too far for me from what was originally restored.
MustardSeed Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 I think there is a place in church for you and for me, regardless of what you or I struggle with. ❤️
MustardSeed Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 Back to topic, I was very surprised to learn of my parents request for cremation. They are still alive but I had been under the impression that cremation was frowned upon and my folks are stalwarts. But burials are expensive and take up a lot of earths real estate so I’m ok with cremation, I’ll likely request the same. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 11 hours ago, JAHS said: ............................ This goes along with the similar change in the endowment ceremony. I wonder if anyone knows exactly when or why the faces of the deceased endowed women were veiled when they were laid away. Could it be that the veil will be lifted on the morning of the First Resurrection when she comes forth to meet her companion (who will lift that veil)? In Jewish and Christian marriage ceremonies, the groom frequently lifts the veil. In Jewish weddings, the groom also veils the face of his beloved before the ceremony. 3
Robert F. Smith Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 3 hours ago, mfbukowski said: I kind of like that too actually. I have always been drawn to Native American customs- which parallel Zoroastrian/Parsi beliefs- that the body is placed on a platform and consumed by birds. I definitely want my matter to be absorbed into nature/the earth in some matter except I do not like the idea of cremation It's too much like living along the Gulf Coast of Texas in the summer. To do it legally, you could donate your body to the FBI Body Farm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm . 4
changed Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 11 hours ago, JLHPROF said: At this point what difference would it make. Nothing is sacred any more. Nothing sacred any more? I suppose we should follow the 613 Mitzvot ... I suspect the higher laws do not involve superstitious rituals or objects. All of those rituals are only symbolic - why doesn't the LDS church have statues in church buildings? Because statues are only symbolic. I do think symbols / the letter of the law type things - those get in the way of focusing on the point of it all..
changed Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 6 hours ago, mfbukowski said: I kind of like that too actually. I have always been drawn to Native American customs- which parallel Zoroastrian/Parsi beliefs- that the body is placed on a platform and consumed by birds. I definitely want my matter to be absorbed into nature/the earth in some matter except I do not like the idea of cremation It's too much like living along the Gulf Coast of Texas in the summer. My family does not use a cemetery - we have a family lake - high in the Colorado mountains, we all hike together to this lake to spread the ashes. Why don't people like cremation?
JAHS Posted January 30, 2019 Author Posted January 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Could it be that the veil will be lifted on the morning of the First Resurrection when she comes forth to meet her companion (who will lift that veil)? In Jewish and Christian marriage ceremonies, the groom frequently lifts the veil. In Jewish weddings, the groom also veils the face of his beloved before the ceremony. Doctrine and Covenants 110:1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened. Doctrine and Covenants 38:8 But the day soon cometh that ye shall see me, and know that I am; for the veil of darkness shall soon be rent, and he that is not purified shall not abide the day. Doctrine and Covenants 38:8 the veil shall be rent and you shall see me and know that I am—not with the carnal neither natural mind, but with the spiritual.
mfbukowski Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, changed said: My family does not use a cemetery - we have a family lake - high in the Colorado mountains, we all hike together to this lake to spread the ashes. Why don't people like cremation? Dunno really. I think it's like the code of the universe, we eat living things and should in turn feed them, even it is only worms or trees or petunias. It's more a feeling than anything reasoned. As a kid, I would lay on the grass under a tree, just thinking, smelling the earth, hearing the bees buzzing, feeling the sun, and sometimes I wanted to just melt into it all. It was more about the process of "melting" rather than being instantly atomized. Edited January 30, 2019 by mfbukowski 2
JAHS Posted January 30, 2019 Author Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, changed said: My family does not use a cemetery - we have a family lake - high in the Colorado mountains, we all hike together to this lake to spread the ashes. Why don't people like cremation? I think it gives a person a stronger feeling and fear of non-existence. If the body is intact then you are still here in a sense; if it's burned to ashes it is more completely gone to a point of no return. Of course the resurrection has no requirements as to the condition of your body elements.
Traela Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 9 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I like it even less after becoming friends with a man who was working at the crematorium. Nothing natural about it at all. Embalming is even less natural. 4
The Nehor Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 8 hours ago, changed said: My family does not use a cemetery - we have a family lake - high in the Colorado mountains, we all hike together to this lake to spread the ashes. Why don't people like cremation? Cremation sounds like a cleaner process. You stick the body in an incinerator and keep the the ashes but after the initial burning the remains (usually including bits of the casket or container they are in) is all swept up and there are usually still recognizable bone fragments. The remains are swept/magnetized to search for metal to remove fillings, hip replacements, whatever. These fragments and the rest of the body are all dumped into a grinder which is basically a blender that purées the bones down and grinds it all to dust. Then it is put in an urn or whatever. To me that is not appreciably cleaner then letting the body rot. 1
sheilauk Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 6 hours ago, mfbukowski said: 15 hours ago, mfbukowski said: I kind of like that too actually. I have always been drawn to Native American customs- which parallel Zoroastrian/Parsi beliefs- that the body is placed on a platform and consumed by birds. I definitely want my matter to be absorbed into nature/the earth in some matter except I do not like the idea of cremation It's too much like living along the Gulf Coast of Texas in the summer. 6 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Dunno really. I think it's like the code of the universe, we eat living things and should in turn feed them, even it is only worms or trees or petunias. It's more a feeling than anything reasoned. As a kid, I would lay on the grass under a tree, just thinking, smelling the earth, hearing the bees buzzing, feeling the sun, and sometimes I wanted to just melt into it all. It was more about the process of "melting" rather than being instantly atomized. Why not look into tree burials? There are places in the US where you can be buried in a wood or in a capsula mundi pod so you feed a tree or other plant. There are over 250 places in the UK which do this. 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Traela said: Embalming is even less natural. We don't embalm before burial here. It's required by law only if the body is being repatriated overseas or being placed in an above-ground crypt.
Tacenda Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, sheilauk said: Why not look into tree burials? There are places in the US where you can be buried in a wood or in a capsula mundi pod so you feed a tree or other plant. There are over 250 places in the UK which do this. This is what I'd like to do.
Calm Posted January 30, 2019 Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) There is a green burial service in Utah: http://www.us-funerals.com/funeral-articles/directory-of-green-burial-sites-in-the-united-states.html#.XFIkFdETGhA https://www.memorialutah.com/green-burial-services/ Edited January 30, 2019 by Calm 1
Recommended Posts