Bernard Gui Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) In spite of an old and very good Girl Scout/Brownie tradition, Cub Scouting is no longer an activity for boys. Another important American cultural institution falls to progressive action. Perhaps it is now time for the Church and Scouting to permanently separate. As a life-long Scouter, I’m sad to see the program fail. Your thoughts? http://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/article209368169.html Edited April 23, 2018 by Bernard Gui 3
california boy Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: In spite of an old and very good Girl Scout/Brownie tradition, Cub Scouting is no longer an activity for boys. Another important American cultural institution falls to progressive action. Perhaps it is now time for the Church and Scouting to permanently separate. As a life-long Scouter, I’m sad to see the program fail. Your thoughts? http://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/article209368169.html From the article you linked Quote This breakaway from single-sex programming is being met with mixed reviews. Susan Miller, an assistant professor of childhood studies at Rutgers University, described it as a “hostile takeover.” Fox News commentator Laura Ingraham blamed a radical group of “gender benders” for corrupting BSA’s board of directors. The truth is hardly so dramatic. Boy Scouts, a traditionally conservative lot, weren’t suddenly doused in liberal pixie dust; instead, they did intensive market research and saw an untapped demographic. Would we like to believe BSA’s healthy transition stems from an epiphany on the importance of gender non-discrimination in the #metoo era? Sure, but desperation was just as likely a driving force. 4
LoudmouthMormon Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 Hey, it's in the realm of possibility that I'll get to take my Laurel daughter to families I've been assigned to Minister to. Should such a combination make sense. Right? 2
Popular Post cinepro Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Posted April 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: In spite of an old and very good Girl Scout/Brownie tradition, Cub Scouting is no longer an activity for boys. Another important American cultural institution falls to progressive action. Perhaps it is now time for the Church and Scouting to permanently separate. As a life-long Scouter, I’m sad to see the program fail. Your thoughts? http://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/article209368169.html I don't know a lot about the relationship between the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, but ultimately, this change to allow girls in "Boy" Scouts is probably a failure of both groups to work together to strengthen both groups. They're obviously very, very different in many ways, but in the end, they're both presumably striving for the same thing. I've probably mentioned it before, but last year I volunteered to be our ward's 11yo scout leader. We didn't have anyone for the position, and even though my son is in college, I wanted to give Scouts a little more of my time and experience in case the Church does sunset the program. So I dusted off my uniform and got back into the program. And I've got to say, it's been a lot of fun. This past weekend, we had a Stake campout for all the 11yo patrols, and it was extremely well planned by the Stake Primary Presidency. The camp site was great, all four of my boys and their dads attended, and it was a lot of fun to help them plan the meals. In the past, it sounds like they've usually done the "grab dinner on the way up - eat cold cereal for breakfast" meal planning, but this time we actually had real campfire meals with food assignments and everything. It was a lot of fun to see the boys make their dinners and just gush about how amazing the food tasted. One boy commented on almost every bite of his tinfoil dinner..."I've never had potatoes that were this good. I've never had chicken that was this good..." It was a really good time, and it was amazing to see how much fun the boys had. It was a great experience for everyone, and on the way home, it made me a little sad that these experiences might be going away as part of the Church's youth program. They could try to replace them with a "Camp Nephi" type program, but we all know it wouldn't be the same, and most boys would probably find a church-themed camp out to be pretty lame. 6
Bernard Gui Posted April 23, 2018 Author Posted April 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, california boy said: From the article you linked The truth is hardly so dramatic. What is the truth? It’s all for money? If so, then Scouting has abandoned the character, purpose, and ideals as defined by its founders, Baden-Powell and his American followers. So much more the pity. 4
Bernard Gui Posted April 23, 2018 Author Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, cinepro said: I don't know a lot about the relationship between the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, but ultimately, this change to allow girls in "Boy" Scouts is probably a failure of both groups to work together to strengthen both groups. They're obviously very, very different in many ways, but in the end, they're both presumably striving for the same thing. I've probably mentioned it before, but last year I volunteered to be our ward's 11yo scout leader. We didn't have anyone for the position, and even though my son is in college, I wanted to give Scouts a little more of my time and experience in case the Church does sunset the program. So I dusted off my uniform and got back into the program. And I've got to say, it's been a lot of fun. This past weekend, we had a Stake campout for all the 11yo patrols, and it was extremely well planned by the Stake Primary Presidency. The camp site was great, all four of my boys and their dads attended, and it was a lot of fun to help them plan the meals. In the past, it sounds like they've usually done the "grab dinner on the way up - eat cold cereal for breakfast" meal planning, but this time we actually had real campfire meals with food assignments and everything. It was a lot of fun to see the boys make their dinners and just gush about how amazing the food tasted. One boy commented on almost every bite of his tinfoil dinner..."I've never had potatoes that were this good. I've never had chicken that was this good..." It was a really good time, and it was amazing to see how much fun the boys had. It was a great experience for everyone, and on the way home, it made me a little sad that these experiences might be going away as part of the Church's youth program. They could try to replace them with a "Camp Nephi" type program, but we all know it wouldn't be the same, and most boys would probably find a church-themed camp out to be pretty lame. Why do you put “Boy” in quotes? I agree with your assessment. I loved being the 11YO leader. Camp Nephi or Camp Helaman as we call it here somewhat fills the gap. Sadly, the Scouts have the program, resources, and facilities that the Church needs, but does not have. I think the separation will be a loss for our children, the Church, and possibly lead to the collapse of Scouting. Perhaps the Scouts realize their position and hope to preserve themselves by broadening the appeal. Edited April 23, 2018 by Bernard Gui
Jeanne Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 37 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said: Hey, it's in the realm of possibility that I'll get to take my Laurel daughter to families I've been assigned to Minister to. Should such a combination make sense. Right? I say why not?
cinepro Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Why do you put “Boy” in quotes? Now that they allow girls, I would expect them to rebrand as "Scouts." Edited April 23, 2018 by cinepro 1
ALarson Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: In spite of an old and very good Girl Scout/Brownie tradition, Cub Scouting is no longer an activity for boys. Do you mean "just" for boys? This will be interesting to watch from here, but I don't believe it's a negative thing. If the church sticks with the Cub Scout program, why couldn't there be girls involved? There are already women called to serve as leaders. The camp outs would probably be the trickiest to work out.... Edited April 23, 2018 by ALarson 3
mnn727 Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 54 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said: Hey, it's in the realm of possibility that I'll get to take my Laurel daughter to families I've been assigned to Minister to. Should such a combination make sense. Right? Our past Home Teacher brought his Laural aged daughter 3 or 4 times when his partner ended up having to work late at the last minute. We enjoyed having her along and she enjoyed our new puppy (when our puppy was new) 1
Jeanne Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, mnn727 said: Our past Home Teacher brought his Laural aged daughter 3 or 4 times when his partner ended up having to work late at the last minute. We enjoyed having her along and she enjoyed our new puppy (when our puppy was new) Well Woot!! And a million other words for what I think was so cool!!
Calm Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) My dad brought me or my sister along as a companion a couple of times, probably beehives at the time, might have been a year or two younger. Have no clue why my brother wasn't taken instead as usual. Iow, there have been men who have done this all along, I suspect with Dad it was simp,y a matter of convenience, but maybe he took us along to show it what it was like. Edited April 23, 2018 by Calm 2
Jeanne Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Calm said: My dad brought me or my sister along as a companion a couple of times, probably beehives at the time, might have been a year or two younger. Have no clue why my brother wasn't taken instead as usual. The reason is cuz' girls are cool. Seriously, I think it is nice..almost like a Father/Daughter date. Where some boys are so used to this and it is expected, the girls are more inclined to know with an absolute how special that is!!
poptart Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 As someone who laughs at how everything is just going down the drain I have to ask, anyone ever wonder how this is affecting young men? You keep taking away things that were theirs and well, only male oriented places they have left are ones that aren't so nice (Gangs, hate groups etc.) Oh, and with gender bending i'm just waiting for more trans people to join the girl scouts. Lets see how tolerant progressives are when they see trans girls selling cookies with their kids or using the same bathroom. Just a little personal musing, contemporary parenting stateside is always a good chuckle for me. Kinda related, does this mean the boyscouts will start selling cookies? I remember selling popcorn, laaaaaame. 1
phaedrus ut Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 I've always thought that girls got the short end of the stick when it came to Young Women's compared to Young Men's and Boy Scouts. I think all scouting can be great character building organizations for young people and I applaud the BSA for their inclusion. Unfortunately for the church it seems to be slowing isolating itself from society at large with its policies. Agree or disagree I always felt like the LDS church's support of scouting was a badge of honor(pun intended). Phaedrus 2
Popular Post bluebell Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) My only problem with scouting and the church is when leaders start to act like participating and liking scouts is a worthiness/testimony issue. Scouts is a non-LDS program that the church uses and I think it's good to remember that. My 13 year old does not enjoy scouts (despite loving all things outdoors) and I have to force him to go to every Wednesday night activity. I do slightly resent that and wish that YM for deacons wasn't only about scouts. Edited April 23, 2018 by bluebell 5
Oliblish Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 2 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said: Hey, it's in the realm of possibility that I'll get to take my Laurel daughter to families I've been assigned to Minister to. Should such a combination make sense. Right? Yes, I see no reason for anyone to get all upset when females are allowed to do a couple of things that were exclusively for the boy's club in the past. No need to worry, there are still plenty of things that only the dudes are able to do so we can still feel special. 1
Popular Post sheilauk Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Posted April 23, 2018 Meanwhile, in other (less important) parts of the world. .. scouting has been mixed in the UK for quite a few years and numbers are steadily growing. certainly no demise of scouts or guides. only last Friday I attended a local awards ceremony and one of the leaders said the troops worked better with girls in them as the boys were calmer! and from an LDS point of view, the UK wards have no connection to the scouts, run the Faith in God program for primary children and weekly activities for the youth, with annual young women and young men camps which are church based and seem to be well attended and enjoyed. I think your pessimism is not necessary and USA cubs and scouts and the church will survive the changes - just follow us! 8
bluebell Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, sheilauk said: Meanwhile, in other (less important) parts of the world. .. scouting has been mixed in the UK for quite a few years and numbers are steadily growing. certainly no demise of scouts or guides. only last Friday I attended a local awards ceremony and one of the leaders said the troops worked better with girls in them as the boys were calmer! and from an LDS point of view, the UK wards have no connection to the scouts, run the Faith in God program for primary children and weekly activities for the youth, with annual young women and young men camps which are church based and seem to be well attended and enjoyed. I think your pessimism is not necessary and USA cubs and scouts and the church will survive the changes - just follow us! So scouts and the church are not at all connected in the UK?
sheilauk Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, bluebell said: So scouts and the church are not at all connected in the UK? Not at all. No groups, no callings, no meetings. The scouts are completely separate. of course some children are members of their local groups, but that's their choice and in addition to any church activities. UK scouting have their own campgrounds which they hire out so church youth camps have been held at scout campgrounds for convenience, but no official links. 1
bluebell Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, sheilauk said: Not at all. No groups, no callings, no meetings. The scouts are completely separate. of course some children are members of their local groups, but that's their choice and in addition to any church activities. UK scouting have their own campgrounds which they hire out so church youth camps have been held at scout campgrounds for convenience, but no official links. Then yes! We should definitely follow you guys. I do wonder though, if the church did pull out of scouts, would they financially be viable for very long? From what I've heard, the LDS church is a huge contributor to scouts finances. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 3 hours ago, cinepro said: ... I've probably mentioned it before, but last year I volunteered to be our ward's 11yo scout leader. ... I know you didn't do it for kudos, and you probably wouldn't care about getting kudos from me even if you did do it for kudos, but I do have to say ... Bravo to you, Sir! 2
Kenngo1969 Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Calm said: My dad brought me or my sister along as a companion a couple of times, probably beehives at the time, might have been a year or two younger. Have no clue why my brother wasn't taken instead as usual. ... In the immortal words of Saturday Night Live's "Church Lady" ... "Could it have been ... Satan?" Sorry! Couldn't resist. (In my case, it probably was Satan!) Edited April 23, 2018 by Kenngo1969
sheilauk Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, bluebell said: I do wonder though, if the church did pull out of scouts, would they financially be viable for very long? From what I've heard, the LDS church is a huge contributor to scouts finances. The UK and other countries manage. I assume the UK scouts rely on membership fees, fundraising and other donations. The USA may have to review their costs and perhaps stop the more costly activities, but I'm sure they could work it out. getting adults to volunteer as leaders might be the hardest part, it seems to be the main issue in the UK. 2
bluebell Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, sheilauk said: The UK and other countries manage. I assume the UK scouts rely on membership fees, fundraising and other donations. The USA may have to review their costs and perhaps stop the more costly activities, but I'm sure they could work it out. getting adults to volunteer as leaders might be the hardest part, it seems to be the main issue in the UK. I keep forgetting that the BSA and scouting in other countries are not related.
Recommended Posts