Atheist Mormon Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 I hope you will be comfortable to respond...I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists...How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? It was very hard for me in my believing days even. Any of you believers hod the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? I am called arrogant/presumptuous and some bad adjectives for my stance for self assurance that this is it and willing to bet anything on it. And I think it is very possible, not so distant future might be able to transfer /upload our memories to machines, even then it won't be real us, I'm convinced what makes our consciousness possible is our brain. 2
Popular Post Kevin Christensen Posted January 30, 2018 Popular Post Posted January 30, 2018 Convinced enough to live my life the way I do, and doing so with both hope and enthusiasm, doing so while periodically and deliberately giving close readings and study to various books and essays that other people offered forward as having destroyed their faith, and publishing on such experiences regularly, all the while having experiences that remind me to consider that if I had given up on faith at any point, I would subsequently have missed out on remarkable discoveries and experiences, and I would not have known or imagined what I was missing. FWIW Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA 7
rongo Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 Bernie Lincicome had a column in the Chicago Tribune sports section. He sometimes ran an entertaining segment called, "Some things you think, some things you suspect, and some things you just know" (about goings-on in the sports world). I see my testimony the same way. There are some few core parts that I know, and many other very important things (like the resurrection) I believe and find hope in. One of the things I know is that God exists. I have felt him, and I can't deny these experiences. If I were to lose my faith in the Restoration, I would still know that God exists. I would put the afterlife between knowledge and belief, but more certain than the resurrection, but that's just me. I think everyone's testimony pattern of "think, suspect, know" is unique and different, like a fingerprint. 3
hope_for_things Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said: I hope you will be comfortable to respond...I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists...How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? It was very hard for me in my believing days even. Any of you believers hod the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? I am called arrogant/presumptuous and some bad adjectives for my stance for self assurance that this is it and willing to bet anything on it. And I think it is very possible, not so distant future might be able to transfer /upload our memories to machines, even then it won't be real us, I'm convinced what makes our consciousness possible is our brain. I think you're conflating a few different things. The idea of God existing is based on a religious assumption that is practiced through faith. When you ask how sure are you that God exists, you're essentially asking for people to be unfaithful, because the whole point of faith is a continued practice and exercise of something that is necessary to experience God in a personal and subjective way. As for whether some kind of life exists after this one, that is another claim I would say not necessarily tied to a belief in God. As of today, we don't have any empirical evidence that can demonstrate either of these two claims are true. Is there an intelligent entity of some kind that created and oversees all creation? Does life continue on after death? We really don't have anything that can support either of these two claims that can be tested and evaluated objectively. So everything about these two claims is taken on faith and exists in the realm of personal subjective experience and the anecdotal experiences of others. If I could recommend a book about the neuroscience of God and the brain, I recently read and really enjoyed, it is very accessible for a non-scientist like myself. https://www.amazon.com/How-Changes-Your-Brain-Neuroscientist/dp/0345503422/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517324236&sr=8-1&keywords=how+god+changes+your+brain
pogi Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 57 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said: I hope you will be comfortable to respond...I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists...How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? It was very hard for me in my believing days even. Any of you believers hod the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? I am called arrogant/presumptuous and some bad adjectives for my stance for self assurance that this is it and willing to bet anything on it. And I think it is very possible, not so distant future might be able to transfer /upload our memories to machines, even then it won't be real us, I'm convinced what makes our consciousness possible is our brain. I am probably just as sure that God exists as you are sure that he doesn't. Both are positions of faith. I can say this, I have a better relationship with God then I do any other person. If he is not real...that is messed up! Most days, I sit with him for 20 minutes, twice daily. I have several prayer journals full of our interactions. I am entirely convinced that my many experiences in prayer are influenced by a higher consciousness...something outside of my own brain. 2
Tacenda Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 Even though my prayers are almost non existant now, since a faith crisis. I still believe He lives, or something higher than myself. But I tend to go nuts when I think how possible it could be that a man created the worlds or atmosphere. It blows my mind right up. But I can't for the life of me see how this happened only out of a big bang theory, or what not, because who or what is behind the big bang theory? BTW, I tired of praying like before because I felt like I was certainly boring Him. So I'd rather speak to him through my mind or out loud throughout the day, where before it was so replicated day in and day out.
JAHS Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: Any of you believers hold the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? If there is nothing after this life I won't know it and therefore will not experience the disappointment. Yea I know Pascals wager. But it works for me. Since faith is pretty much all we can go on then of course there is a possibility there is nothing after this life, but I have had too many experiences that have convinced me there must be a God and a life after. 1
mrmarklin Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 Once one has had a genuine spiritual experience, there can be no doubt about God’s existence. That experience is worth striving for. 2
Metis_LDS Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 36 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: I hope you will be comfortable to respond...I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists...How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? It was very hard for me in my believing days even. Any of you believers hod the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? It is difficult for me to respond to your question without seeming arrogant. I do not want people on the board feeling sorry for me so I will not make a list of all my losses and suffering which I feel have been considerable. But my somewhat arrogant answer is that my faith that God is, has been a gift from an early age. I flounder and struggle in my life but my faith is always firm. I understand that we all do not get the same gifts I also know that we all get gifts from God. I am close to someone that is an atheist and if I could say anything to them that they might try to see it is that just based on science when we die there cannot be totally zero because you can destroy things just change them around (according to science). Yes it is true that in the Large Hadron Collider particles appear and then are gone again but where do they truly come from and if not converted to energy where do they go to.
Gray Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: I hope you will be comfortable to respond...I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists...How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? It was very hard for me in my believing days even. Any of you believers hod the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? I am called arrogant/presumptuous and some bad adjectives for my stance for self assurance that this is it and willing to bet anything on it. And I think it is very possible, not so distant future might be able to transfer /upload our memories to machines, even then it won't be real us, I'm convinced what makes our consciousness possible is our brain. As someone who defines God as existence itself, I'm 100% confident that God exists. There isn't even the slightest question. 1
Bobbieaware Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: I hope you will be comfortable to respond...I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists...How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? It was very hard for me in my believing days even. Any of you believers hod the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? I am called arrogant/presumptuous and some bad adjectives for my stance for self assurance that this is it and willing to bet anything on it. And I think it is very possible, not so distant future might be able to transfer /upload our memories to machines, even then it won't be real us, I'm convinced what makes our consciousness possible is our brain. In 2 Nephi 2, the prophet Lehi testifies if God did not exist nothing else could exist; all there would be (if in this instance the word ‘be’ is the correct one to use) is absolute nothingness. At the most profoundly intuitive level of my mind, I do know for a surety that Lehi spoke the truth. You see, absolute nothingness would have had no will, nor means, nor storehouse of anything to bring forth all the things we see in our astoundingly elaborate universe. The realm of material reality we inhabit has always existed upon the immutable principle of the necessity of there being opposition in all things. I know for a surety that if it were possible for God to cease to be God that everything else that now exists would vanish into nothingness. And I am bold to say that the day of realization will come when you will wonder how you could have ever entertained the thought that anything could exist without the existence of an infinite and eternal God who is in and through all things and by whom all things is consist. Edited January 30, 2018 by Bobbieaware
churchistrue Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 Belief in a God that is somewhat close to the LDS-Christian view, ie a God that I can have a conversation with and I will meet some day in some form? I would say on my good days I'm sure he is there. On my bad days I doubt he exists. I have hope. 1
Waylon Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: I hope you will be comfortable to respond...I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists...How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? It was very hard for me in my believing days even. Any of you believers hod the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? I am called arrogant/presumptuous and some bad adjectives for my stance for self assurance that this is it and willing to bet anything on it. And I think it is very possible, not so distant future might be able to transfer /upload our memories to machines, even then it won't be real us, I'm convinced what makes our consciousness possible is our brain. As far as God exists, I am certain. It is very hard to study college-level science and be an atheist, particularly cell biology. In my opinion, God has left so many clues of his existence in biology one would have to be willfully blind not to believe in God. As far as Christ being the Son of God, I am certain. There is positively something special about Christianity that is in no other religion (and I have studied world religions quite a bit, particularly Islam). I believe the New Testament 100%. As far as Joseph Smith being a prophet? I believe pretty strongly, but I still need to use my faith sometimes. I know why I believe in the Church, I have felt the Spirit in the Church, I believe there is lots of convincing evidence in the Book of Mormon that the Church is true, and there is lots of evidence in the writings of the early Church Fathers that the Church really is the restoration of first-century Christianity. However, when Protestant fundamentalists accuse the Church of "not being Christian", my testimony is not so strong that these kinds of things don't bother me at some level, and I sometimes have to remind myself why I believe as I do and why I think the fundamentalists are wrong. I guess coping with these feelings is called, "having faith". Even still, I know that if I did convert to some other version of Christianity, the knowledge and feelings I have obtained in the Church would likely haunt me for the rest of my life, and I would probably always, deep down, think I made a very great mistake by leaving the Church, as my belief is very, very strong - just not completely unshakable yet in this area.
pogi Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 47 minutes ago, Tacenda said: BTW, I tired of praying like before because I felt like I was certainly boring Him. So I'd rather speak to him through my mind or out loud throughout the day, where before it was so replicated day in and day out.
bluebell Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 I know God exists and loves me because of the experiences I’ve had with Him. Right now everything else I believe is true or have faith it is true. 2
FormerLDS Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 As pointed out earlier (Pogi), both belief in God and unbelief in God are positions of equal faith. Reminds me of one of my favorite illustrations called "God of the Gaps" by cartoonist Sidney Harris, a self-proclaimed atheist: Without God - without faith in something - how do you explain everything you see around you? Beats me... 1
Gray Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: As pointed out earlier (Pogi), both belief in God and unbelief in God are positions of equal faith. Reminds me of one of my favorite illustrations called "God of the Gaps" by cartoonist Sidney Harris, a self-proclaimed atheist: Without God - without faith in something - how do you explain everything you see around you? Beats me... Nothingness is an impossibility, so existence doesn't need explaining. The LDS God isn't that kind of God anyway.
Atheist Mormon Posted January 30, 2018 Author Posted January 30, 2018 4 hours ago, pogi said: I am probably just as sure that God exists as you are sure that he doesn't. Both are positions of faith. I can say this, I have a better relationship with God then I do any other person. If he is not real...that is messed up! Most days, I sit with him for 20 minutes, twice daily. I have several prayer journals full of our interactions. I am entirely convinced that my many experiences in prayer are influenced by a higher consciousness...something outside of my own brain. pogi, I like your posts and please do not misread any of my answers as disrespect/denigrating or belittling... .....Of course you are gonna have great relationship with this God, could I say the same thing with my wife? ....I respect your attribution of higher consciousness outside of your brain, it is possible if not verifiable.
kllindley Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: I hope you will be comfortable to respond...I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists...How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? It was very hard for me in my believing days even. Any of you believers hod the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? I am called arrogant/presumptuous and some bad adjectives for my stance for self assurance that this is it and willing to bet anything on it. And I think it is very possible, not so distant future might be able to transfer /upload our memories to machines, even then it won't be real us, I'm convinced what makes our consciousness possible is our brain. I am honestly less convinced that I really exist than that God does. 1
Atheist Mormon Posted January 30, 2018 Author Posted January 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Tacenda said: Even though my prayers are almost non existant now, since a faith crisis. I still believe He lives, or something higher than myself. But I tend to go nuts when I think how possible it could be that a man created the worlds or atmosphere. It blows my mind right up. But I can't for the life of me see how this happened only out of a big bang theory, or what not, because who or what is behind the big bang theory? BTW, I tired of praying like before because I felt like I was certainly boring Him. So I'd rather speak to him through my mind or out loud throughout the day, where before it was so replicated day in and day out. " I was certainly boring Him. " Excuse me but you got this part wrong; you didn't bore him, how could you when you were ignored time after time. This was exactly the same plight my ex_wife would express often. From my atheist perspective our eyes/Brains give Universe life. Without us Universe is nothing.
Jeanne Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 My reason is so simple..and basic. I have to. In order to wake up each day with some huge decisions and problems..I have to. Last month my father died...2 weeks later, I lost my older brother...I have to. Believe in God. Believe in afterlife.
Avatar4321 Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: I hope you will be comfortable to respond...I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists...How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? It was very hard for me in my believing days even. Any of you believers hod the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? I am called arrogant/presumptuous and some bad adjectives for my stance for self assurance that this is it and willing to bet anything on it. And I think it is very possible, not so distant future might be able to transfer /upload our memories to machines, even then it won't be real us, I'm convinced what makes our consciousness possible is our brain. I’m more convinced he exists than I am you do 2
CA Steve Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 The question isn't so much how convinced we are that God exists, it's more how convinced we are that the God we believe in exist. I think there's a huge difference between those two questions. So when two different people are both saying they believe God exists but aren't talking about the same God well then what we have is a failure to communicate, because both sides might think that the other person is supporting their belief when, in fact, they actually might not.
Atheist Mormon Posted January 30, 2018 Author Posted January 30, 2018 34 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: I’m more convinced he exists than I am you do Okay I'm here, wheat does he do to convince you? That was my question in the beginning. Far it be from me to equate you to people who hear visions/noises...how do you enable this?
Eek! Posted January 30, 2018 Posted January 30, 2018 7 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: I'm curious about the degree of your surety that God exists? I think either there is a God of some sort, or else at a minimum there is a "slight positive bias" to the universe, as I think the odds against our current existence are too great for random chance to be a fully satisfactory explanation. 7 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: How do you maintain faith week after week with the conviction? I don't do anything for the purpose of maintaining faith. Whatever is, is, regardless of my thoughts or emotions about the subject. I am very curious, and imo the odds are against my current perception remaining unchanged by future experiences. So I would say that my beliefs are evolving, and will probably continue to do so. Seems to me that we humans are very good at seeing what we want to see, so imo awareness of the possibility of self-deception is a good idea. 7 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: Any of you believers hold the possibility that there might not be anything after this life? If that turns out to be the case, that would be okay too.
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