More Jesus, Less Joseph: Changes in Mormon General Conference

[JAHS]

Interesting article in the Religion News Service about the shift in topics over the years in General Conference

'With LDS General Conference coming up, there’s always lots of speculation about what topics the prophets, apostles, and auxiliary leaders will cover. Two sociologists take a long view – a really long view, as in all of LDS church history – and point to what we can learn about how Mormonism changes over time by crunching the numbers of what gets talked about at General Conference."

More Jesus, Less Joseph: Changes in Mormon General Conference

Church critics also like to complain about how many times the prophet or apostles actually testify of Jesus Christ or the Book of Mormon being the word of God.

 

[JLHPROF]

Interesting that for the first 100 years Christ didn't even make the top 10.
So if people weren't converting to the plan of salvation and atonement what do we think drove conversions for the first century  of the Church?

Also interesting that Joseph Smith hasn't been in the top 10 for over 60 years.

 

[JAHS]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Interesting that for the first 100 years Christ didn't even make the top 10.
So if people weren't converting to the plan of salvation and atonement what do we think drove conversions for the first century  of the Church?

Also interesting that Joseph Smith hasn't been in the top 10 for over 60 years.

 

Not sure how they made the choices as to what the topics of the speeches actually were. Could be Jesus was mentioned quite often in those earlier talks but the main subject was about something else. 

[UtahTexan]

Just because the Topic "Jesus Christ" was not in the top 10 does not mean Jesus Christ was not a part of all the topics that were.  

[sunstoned]

8 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

Just because the Topic "Jesus Christ" was not in the top 10 does not mean Jesus Christ was not a part of all the topics that were.  

Well, according to the study, Jesus wasn't the main topic like Joseph Smith was.  I'm glad that trend has started to be reversed.  

[JAHS]

2 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Well, according to the study, Jesus wasn't the main topic like Joseph Smith was.  I'm glad that trend has started to be reversed.  

Before they joined the church most of the early members were already Christian and believed in and worshiped Christ. I think because that was a given among the early saints they tended to dwell more on what made them different from the other Christians like a latter-day prophet and priesthood authority.

[UtahTexan]

19 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Well, according to the study, Jesus wasn't the main topic like Joseph Smith was.  I'm glad that trend has started to be reversed.  

Lets say my main topic is Family..and I mention Jesus 15 times in 20 minutes......do you think Jesus was discussed enough in that talk?

I am not too concerned with the topics.  I get God's Word in all of them....I know Heavenly Father, Jesus and The Holy Ghost will be mentioned frequently.

When Peter gave his talk on Pentecost in the Book of Acts, the topic was not Jesus.....did it make the message less powerful?

Edited March 5, 2016 by CountryBoy

[BlueDreams]

That's pretty cool....if you think about it, the trends make sense considering what the saints/church were facing at each era. For the earliest decades, governing order would have been absolutely a head topic as they worked to create an organized body of saints while managing external threats. 1860's-ish would have dealt with still persistent external pressures and uncertainty.  1890-1912 was the period where Polygamy was ending and the Church's authority was probably in question internally about the prophetic decisions. etc. 

 

With luv,

BD

 

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, sunstoned said:

Well, according to the study, Jesus wasn't the main topic like Joseph Smith was.  I'm glad that trend has started to be reversed.  

Why?
 

[rpn]

what happened 1960-79?

[JAHS]

2 hours ago, rpn said:

what happened 1960-79?

There were no general conferences 

[JAHS]

5 hours ago, rpn said:

what happened 1960-79?

Actually I think there's a type-o in the chart, The 1950 to 1959 column should be 1950 to 1979. That would make it a 30 year interval.

[Bernard Gui]

On 3/4/2016 at 4:00 PM, JAHS said:

Interesting article in the Religion News Service about the shift in topics over the years in General Conference

'With LDS General Conference coming up, there’s always lots of speculation about what topics the prophets, apostles, and auxiliary leaders will cover. Two sociologists take a long view – a really long view, as in all of LDS church history – and point to what we can learn about how Mormonism changes over time by crunching the numbers of what gets talked about at General Conference."

More Jesus, Less Joseph: Changes in Mormon General Conference

Church critics also like to complain about how many times the prophet or apostles actually testify of Jesus Christ or the Book of Mormon being the word of God.

 

The article seems strained and uninformed...like they try to create data to support a pre-determined agenda. For example, this does not resemble my recollections of Conference teachings....

Quote

RNS: You also point out something that surprised me, that the Book of Mormon has only appeared among the top twenty topics in a single decade in all of church history [the 1980s]. And even then it barely squeaked onto the list.

Gordon: The Book of Mormon as a specific conference topic correlated very closely with the presidency of Ezra Taft Benson. He personally crusaded for emphasizing it in every way he could think of, and after his presidency was over it just dropped out.

Gary: And throughout the nineteenth century, there’s very little mention of the Book of Mormon. Both Gordon and I found it very interesting that Joseph Smith himself virtually never referred to the Book of Mormon after it was published. It didn’t emerge as a topic of interest in his speeches or writings, nor those of his associates in the earliest times of Mormon history.

RNS: Why isn’t the Book of Mormon discussed more often now?

Gordon: We interpret that by saying that the Church is concerned about how it is perceived by others who are not LDS. They want to reinforce the idea that Mormonism is a staunch Christian religion, and the Book of Mormon doesn’t support that with critics. It’s a scripture that they don’t recognize as genuine or valid.

This is part of the overall de-emphasis of certain kinds of teachings and doctrines that are peculiar to Mormonism. There’s been a decline in mentioning specifically Mormon ideas of salvation, like exaltation and the Celestial Kingdom. Those are core Mormon theological beliefs, but they don’t get referenced very often at General Conference, especially in the last 30 years.

Gary: When these kinds of concerns are discussed at General Conference, the unique Mormon vocabulary is not employed. They’ll say “heaven” instead of “the Celestial Kingdom,” and “salvation” instead of “exaltation.” Mormon audiences will make a translation in their minds about what that really refers to, but at General Conference that’s not the vocabulary that is employed by General Authorities.

 

[Bernard Gui]

On 10/3/2017 at 9:55 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Both Gordon and I found it very interesting that Joseph Smith himself virtually never referred to the Book of Mormon after it was published

Seriously???

"Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations, and where is our religion? We have none" (History of the Church, 2:52)."

"13 And again, the elders, priests, and teachers of this church, shall teach the scriptures which are in the bible, and the book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel; and they shall observe the covenants and church articles to do them; and these shall be their teachings." (Book of Comandments 44, 1833)

"At a General Assembly of the Church of the Latter Day Saints, according to previous notice, held on the 17th of August, 1835 to take into consideration the labors of a certain committee which had been appointed by a General Assembly ofSeptember 24, 1834, as follows: 'The Assembly being duly organized, and after transacting certain business of the church, proceeded to appoint a committee to arrange the items of doctrine of Jesus Christ, for the government of his church of the Latter Day Saints, which church was organized and commenced its rise on the 6th day of April, 1830. These items are to be taken from the bible, book of Mormon, and the revelations which have been given to said church up to this date, or shall be until such arrangement is made.'" (Doctrine and Covenants 1835)

"We believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God." (Wentworth Letter, 1842)

"And the Book of Mormon true,

With its cov’nant ever new,

For the Gentile and the Jew,

He translated sacredly.

God’s commandments to mankind,

For believing Saints designed,

And to bless the seeking mind,

Came to him from Jesus Christ."

Hymn text by WW Phelps, 1835

 

There are plenty more where these came from. They are not hard to find.

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[JLHPROF]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Seriously???

"Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations, and where is our religion? We have none" (History of the Church, 2:52)."

"13 And again, the elders, priests, and teachers of this church, shall teach the scriptures which are in the bible, and the book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel; and they shall observe the covenants and church articles to do them; and these shall be their teachings." (Book of Comandments 44, 1833)

"At a General Assembly of the Church of the Latter Day Saints, according to previous notice, held on the 17th of August, 1835 to take into consideration the labors of a certain committee which had been appointed by a General Assembly ofSeptember 24, 1834, as follows: 'The Assembly being duly organized, and after transacting certain business of the church, proceeded to appoint a committee to arrange the items of doctrine of Jesus Christ, for the government of his church of the Latter Day Saints, which church was organized and commenced its rise on the 6th day of April, 1830. These items are to be taken from the bible, book of Mormon, and the revelations which have been given to said church up to this date, or shall be until such arrangement is made.'" (Doctrine and Covenants 1835)

"We believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God." (Wntworth Letter, 1842)

"With its cov’nant ever new,

For the Gentile and the Jew,

He translated sacredly.

God’s commandments to mankind,

For believing Saints designed,

And to bless the seeking mind,

Came to him from Jesus Christ."

Hymn text by WW Phelps, 1835

 

There are plenty more where these came from. They are not hard to find.

 

Be fair.

Joseph may have referred to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon but he virtually never quoted it in his sermons or teachings.  He certainly quoted the New Testament, but not the Book of Mormon.

[bluebell]

On 3/4/2016 at 6:13 PM, JLHPROF said:

Interesting that for the first 100 years Christ didn't even make the top 10.
So if people weren't converting to the plan of salvation and atonement what do we think drove conversions for the first century  of the Church?

Also interesting that Joseph Smith hasn't been in the top 10 for over 60 years.

 

I wonder if it was a result of the prevalence of Christianity in general in the early United States and England and the number of converts to the LDS church.   It seems like it would be reasonable for a church of converts to focus on the differences between their old faith and their new one (because that's what you do when you stop supporting one thing and start supporting something different-you talk about why the new thing is better).  Those main difference would be JS and the BOM, wouldn't they?

I also wonder if some of it wasn't traditional holdover.  I wonder if a JS/BOM focus was started by saints who personally knew and loved JS and who grew even more fervent in that love after his martyrdom and then that carried on for a while with their kids and grandkids.

[strappinglad]

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 6:20 PM, JAHS said:

Also interesting that Joseph Smith hasn't been in the top 10 for over 60 years

 

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 8:37 PM, sunstoned said:

I'm glad that trend has started to be reversed.  

Something here doesn't jibe. Either that or my understanding of the word' started ' is amiss.

[JLHPROF]

23 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I wonder if it was a result of the prevalence of Christianity in general in the early United States and England and the number of converts to the LDS church.   It seems like it would be reasonable for a church of converts to focus on the differences between their old faith and their new one (because that's what you do when you stop supporting one thing and start supporting something different-you talk about why the new thing is better).  Those main difference would be JS and the BOM, wouldn't they?

I also wonder if some of it wasn't traditional holdover.  I wonder if a JS/BOM focus was started by saints who personally knew and loved JS and who grew even more fervent in that love after his martyrdom and then that carried on for a while with their kids and grandkids.

There are many possible reasons.
No matter which we subscribe to the change is evident.
In the 19th Century speakers focused the restoration and Joseph and quoted more from the New Testament.
In the 20th Century speakers focused on plan of salvation and Christ and quoted more from the Book of Mormon.
Kind of interesting pairings.  The restoration prophet and the traditional scripture or the biblical savior and the restored scripture.
 

[Scott Lloyd]

Why the thread neocromancy?

[JLHPROF]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why the thread neocromancy?

Easier than starting a new thread on the same topic that comes up every conference?

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Be fair.

Joseph may have referred to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon but he virtually never quoted it in his sermons or teachings.  He certainly quoted the New Testament, but not the Book of Mormon.

Be fair? How so?

Quote

Both Gordon and I found it very interesting that Joseph Smith himself virtually never referred to the Book of Mormon after it was published.

 

[smac97]

9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

The article seems strained and uninformed...like they try to create data to support a pre-determined agenda. 

Well, it's Jana Riess, the love child of H.L. Mencken and Mark Twain as to all things Mormon.

-Smac

[Meerkat]

Back in the Seventies when I had gained a testimony of Jesus Christ, my wife and I searched for an acceptable church.  It was frustrating and confusing.  When we found the Book of Mormon, the confusion left.  The Spirit that had testified of the Savior testified that the Book was true.  With that knowledge, not only was it logical that Joseph Smith was a prophet, the Spirit also testified that he was.  That was the significant difference between the LDS and all other churches.  It was clear to us that this was the church we had been searching and praying for.

Our purpose was, as with many converts including Joseph Smith, finding where God would like us to worship Him.  Upon hearing the Joseph Smith story, it rang true because his process was identical to ours.  The only difference was that now, because of Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and the Holy Ghost, there was a place on earth, approved by God, for us to worship Jesus Christ.

The Book of Mormon is the "Keystone" of our religion, as stated by the Prophet Joseph Smith.  I have gotten nearer to Christ by reading the Book of Mormon than any other book.  When Ezra Taft Benson said "When we read the Book of Mormon, we cleanse the inner man," he was right.  I have experienced it.  And the purpose of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is, in my opinion, to cleanse the inner man and prepare us for exaltation.

Perhaps conferences have gone more to preaching Christ rather than Joseph Smith because the conference is preaching to the choir.  Most of us know the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith was a prophet.  We want to hear about how to bring Christ into our hearts and lives from the Book of Mormon and the Bible.  That said, I never tire of hearing the Joseph Smith story and the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.  My favorite talk from conference was Tad R. Callister's "God's Compelling Witness: The Book of Mormon."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/10/gods-compelling-witness-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng

Edited October 5, 2017 by Meerkat

[ALarson]

On 10/3/2017 at 10:30 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Seriously???

 

There are plenty more where these came from. They are not hard to find.

This is an interesting topic for me.   I read just recently that Joseph never quoted the Book of Mormon in any of his sermons or writings (that we have a record of).  I kind of went "Hmmmm, hadn't thought about that before!".  But, I have not had the time to look into this to see if it's true.

When I see you state there are "plenty" and are "not hard to find",  I'm hoping you can supply the quotes or references.  Do you mind posting them?

If I have some time today, I'll search too.  (Thanks in advance for any you know of that you can post.)  

[ALarson]

On 10/3/2017 at 1:38 PM, JLHPROF said:

Be fair.

Joseph may have referred to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon but he virtually never quoted it in his sermons or teachings.  He certainly quoted the New Testament, but not the Book of Mormon.

I just now saw your post (after I responded to Bernard above).  This is what I just read too and it's strange to me that Joseph would not have used the Book of Mormon in his sermons or teachings.  I had not really ever realized this or thought much about it until recently.

Joseph called the Book of Mormon the "keystone of our religion" and that "a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book", then never quoted from it when he was speaking or writing?  

I'm anxious to see what Bernard has...

Edited October 5, 2017 by ALarson