Thinking Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Mother In Heaven The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all human beings, male and female, are beloved spirit children of heavenly parents, a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. This understanding is rooted in scriptural and prophetic teachings about the nature of God, our relationship to Deity, and the godly potential of men and women. The doctrine of a Heavenly Mother is a cherished and distinctive belief among Latter-day Saints.While there is no record of a formal revelation to Joseph Smith on this doctrine, some early Latter-day Saint women recalled that he personally taught them about a Mother in Heaven. The earliest published references to the doctrine appeared shortly after Joseph Smith’s death in 1844, in documents written by his close associates. The most notable expression of the idea is found in a poem by Eliza R. Snow, entitled “My Father in Heaven” and now known as the hymn “O My Father.” This text declares: “In the heav’ns are parents single? / No, the thought makes reason stare; / Truth is reason—truth eternal / Tells me I’ve a mother there.”Subsequent Church leaders have affirmed the existence of a Mother in Heaven. In 1909, the First Presidency taught that “all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity.” Susa Young Gates, a prominent leader in the Church, wrote in 1920 that Joseph Smith’s visions and teachings revealed the truth that “the divine Mother, [is] side by side with the divine Father.” And in “The Family: A Proclamation to the World,” issued in 1995, the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles declared, “Each [person] is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny.”Prophets have taught that our heavenly parents work together for the salvation of the human family. “We are part of a divine plan designed by Heavenly Parents who love us,” taught Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. President Harold B. Lee stated, “We forget that we have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother who are even more concerned, probably, than our earthly father and mother, and that influences from beyond are constantly working to try to help us when we do all we can.”Latter-day Saints direct their worship to Heavenly Father, in the name of Christ, and do not pray to Heavenly Mother. In this, they follow the pattern set by Jesus Christ, who taught His disciples to “always pray unto the Father in my name.” Latter-day Saints are taught to pray to Heavenly Father, but as President Gordon B. Hinckley said, “The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her.” Indeed, as Elder Rudger Clawson wrote, “We honor woman when we acknowledge Godhood in her eternal Prototype.”As with many other truths of the gospel, our present knowledge about a Mother in Heaven is limited. Nevertheless, we have been given sufficient knowledge to appreciate the sacredness of this doctrine and to comprehend the divine pattern established for us as children of heavenly parents. Latter-day Saints believe that this pattern is reflected in Paul’s statement that “neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.” Men and women cannot be exalted without each other. Just as we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. As Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has said, “Our theology begins with heavenly parents. Our highest aspiration is to be like them.” Thoughts? Edited October 25, 2015 by Thinking
JeremyOrbe-Smith Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Well, personally, I wish they'd read Kevin Christensen and Margaret Barker, for one thing. It's cool that we're getting a little more vocal about Her. The essay was nothing particularly special, but at least it's something official to point to in Gospel Doctrine class. I just wish we'd go all the way and recognize that the existence of not only a Father but also a Mother in Heaven who shares everything -- a Goddess fer gosh sakes -- would be pretty great grounds for ordaining women to the Priesthood. It would solve so, so much if they'd just take that last little logical step.Ah well. Baby steps, I guess. Meanwhile, I sense an opportunity to SPAM:A Mother There: A Survey Of Historical Teachings About Mother In Heaven by David L. Paulsen and Martin PulidoThe Other Half of Heaven: Debunking Myths about Heavenly Mother by Warren AstonNephi And His Asherah by Daniel C. PetersonWhere Shall Wisdom Be Found? by Margaret BarkerWhat Did King Josiah Reform? by Margaret Barker (presented at BYU)The Images Of Mary In The Litany Of Loreto by Margaret BarkerNephite Feminism Revisited by Shauna and Kevin ChristensenKevin Christensen On The Scholarship Of Margaret BarkerDoes God Have A Wife? by Alyson Skabelund Von FeldtThe Assyrian Tree Of Life: Tracing The Origins Of Jewish Monotheism And Greek Philosophy by Simo ParpolaShadday As A Goddess Epithet [For Asherah] by Harriet LutzkyHow To Worship Our Mother In Heaven (Without Getting Excommunicated) by Kevin L. BarneyAsherah, The Tree Of Life, And The Menorah: Continuity Of A Goddess Symbol In Judaism? by Asphodel P. LongThe Deseret Connection by Hugh W. Nibley (plus a whole bunch of stuff from his last -- amazing -- book One Eternal Round)The Sacred Tree Of The Ancient Maya by Allen J. ChristensenDid God Have A Wife? by William G. DeverThe Hebrew Goddess by Raphael PataiThe Mother of the Lord Volume One: The Lady In The Temple by Margaret BarkerThe Chalice and the Blade by Riane Eisler (an uneven book, which I recommend primarily -- for the purposes of this discussion, anyway -- for her views on the Holy Spirit of Wisdom.)The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe: Myths and Cult Images by Marija Gimbutas (a much-maligned book that still has some useful bits)The White Goddess by Robert Graves (an even more-maligned book, but hey, Nibley cites him so he can't be all bad, right?)The Myth of the Goddess: Evolution of an Image by Jules CashfordFeminine Features In The Imagery Of God In Israel: The Sacred Marriage And The Sacred Tree by Moshe Weinfeld Edited October 24, 2015 by JeremyOrbe-Smith 3
Rivers Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Isn't it possible that we have more than one mother in heaven?
Paddy Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Unfortunately the essay said nothing than acknowledge her.. She is still a trivial after though in our theology because she is still an assumed doctrine. Despite the essay. Whether she exists or not is irrelevant to my existence, salvation, relationship with God, or the role of women. It's a doctrine with no relevance of depth.
janderich Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Unfortunately the essay said nothing than acknowledge her.. She is still a trivial after though in our theology because she is still an assumed doctrine. Despite the essay. Whether she exists or not is irrelevant to my existence, salvation, relationship with God, or the role of women. It's a doctrine with no relevance of depth.Irrelevant to your existence? I think not.
JLHPROF Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Well, at least Mother in Heaven is now considered official doctrine (and not just another piece of speculation).Presumably this also makes "God is married" official doctrine. These may have been pronounced with authority on occasion already, but there always seemed to be some members that questioned whether we (the Church) really believed them. That said, there isn't really anything substantial or groundbreaking in here. Just a formal acknowledgement of what has been the general position for a long time. 3
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) My main issue is they speak of "A Mother in Heaven"- when, quite frankly, the teaching, when examined in light of ALL LDS teachings, espouses multiple "MotherS in Heaven".But like someone said in a previous post... baby steps. Edited October 24, 2015 by BookofMormonLuvr 2
HappyJackWagon Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Well, at least Mother in Heaven is now considered official doctrine (and not just another piece of speculation).Presumably this also makes "God is married" official doctrine. These may have been pronounced with authority on occasion already, but there always seemed to be some members that questioned whether we (the Church) really believed them. That said, there isn't really anything substantial or groundbreaking in here. Just a formal acknowledgement of what has been the general position for a long time.This is what women have to aspire to. A godhood as a mother in which you are not recognized, spoken to, praised, loved, and barely acknowledged by your children. It's very sad. The essay states that we don't pray to her. Okay. Nice statement, but why?The essay states that we don't know much about her. Okay. Nice statement, but why? All this essay does is illustrate the inequity of a Mother versus her all powerful, Godly husband, and a theology with massive holes that prophets, seers and revelators aren't answering.
Crypto Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) This is what women have to aspire to.Life is like going camping, you learn, you play, and sometimes there is a bit too much dirt and not everyone wants to go.(I would just like to note that I know several local priesthood leaders that this applies to as well. Also it's speculation, just like nearly everything else people say about this topic) Edited October 24, 2015 by Crypto
Teancum Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Isn't it possible that we have more than one mother in heaven? According the Brigham Young the answer would be yes. 1
RevTestament Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 The only mother I know about is the mother of scripture Galatians 4:2626 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.God himself says he gives us the blessings of the breast and of the womb. Genesis 49:2525 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:The Church is in the role of our spiritual mother here on the earth. She provides the gospel to us by which we are fed spiritual milk. Until we receive a revelation otherwise, everything else is speculation.
theplains Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Well, at least Mother in Heaven is now considered official doctrine (and not just another piece of speculation).Presumably this also makes "God is married" official doctrine One thing the article failed to mention is whether it was a vote of 15 apostles or just the Presidentto classify her existence as a doctrine. Or was it just a declared doctrine without a revelation? Thanks,Jim
Teancum Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Unfortunately the essay said nothing than acknowledge her.. She is still a trivial after though in our theology because she is still an assumed doctrine. Despite the essay. Whether she exists or not is irrelevant to my existence, salvation, relationship with God, or the role of women. It's a doctrine with no relevance of depth. Agreed. It seemed really a bunch of pabulum and throwing a bone....
carbon dioxide Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Well, personally, I wish they'd read Kevin Christensen and Margaret Barker, for one thing. It's cool that we're getting a little more vocal about Her. The essay was nothing particularly special, but at least it's something official to point to in Gospel Doctrine class. I just wish we'd go all the way and recognize that the existence of not only a Father but also a Mother in Heaven who shares everything -- a Goddess fer gosh sakes -- would be pretty great grounds for ordaining women to the Priesthood. It would solve so, so much if they'd just take that last little logical step. I don't see how the issue of Heavenly Mother would be grounds on ordaining women to the Priesthood. The only way that would happen is if revelation was given to ordain women and if that happened, it would because God said it was time. Not because we think we are ready. I also believe that heavenly mother is with the Father and Son with not giving the priesthood. If our heavenly mother wanted women to have it, they would have it. If the relation between the Father and Mother is like most relationships between husband and wife, the wife usually gets what she wants. 2
carbon dioxide Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Unfortunately the essay said nothing than acknowledge her.. She is still a trivial after though in our theology because she is still an assumed doctrine. Despite the essay. Whether she exists or not is irrelevant to my existence, salvation, relationship with God, or the role of women. It's a doctrine with no relevance of depth.What really can one do other than acknowledge her? We know virtually nothing about her. Everything we could say simply would be our opinions of what we think we know about her and most of that is probably not true. I think it is better to not speak much about her than speak 10000 words on her of which 90% turns out to be incorrect.
Zakuska Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Well... to see your wife is to see heavenly mother since your wife is patterned after her. So... She has two eyes long flowing hair beautiful lips, two ears, a cute little chin, two shoulders and loving arms to hold her children with. She has two breasts and a cute belly button. fertile reproductive areas, two legs and two feet. Seems to me we know quit a few things about her. Not "nothing". 1
Paddy Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 I like the idea of a heavenly mother. And it is a pretty progressive doctrine, but what we know about her is only assumed based on our lived experience. Spiritually we have a father and mother but what does that really mean. Zakuska suggests that we have inherited traits but how do you know. How are we spiritually created? If the concept of heavenly mother is now more emphasised to coincide with our emphasis on family it probably is not a good thing. The problem is, because there is no details about HM"s interactions with the human race we are left with an interesting concept on family - which is basically we are being raised by a Father and an older brother, with an absent mother. That reality does not gel well with our concept of family on earth.
CV75 Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Isn't it possible that we have more than one mother in heaven?Each of us can have only one mother and one father on earth, and I suppose the same goes for heaven. 1
juliann Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Heavenly Mother has been mentioned more than we think. An excellent reminder.... http://www.the-exponent.com/what-i-first-learned-about-heavenly-mother/ The hymn, “O My Father,” was initially titled, “Invocation, or the Eternal Father and Mother,” suggesting that Eliza herself viewed her words as a prayer to both Heavenly Parents.1Eliza’s poem was not the first recorded expression of LDS belief in an Eternal Mother. W.W. Phelps published a hymn ten months before that he had written for the dedication of a Seventies Hall. It was titled, “A Voice From the Prophet: Come to Me.” The relevant lyric says, “Come to me; here’s the myst’ry that man hath not seen; Here’s our Father in heaven, and Mother; the Queen, Here are worlds that have been, and the worlds yet to be, Here’s eternity,–endless; amen; Come to me.”2This suggests that the doctrine did not stem with Eliza, but was common knowledge at that time. Eliza explained, “I got my inspiration from the Prophet’s teaching. All that I was required to do was use my Poetical gift and give that Eternal principal in Poetry.”3There is additional evidence that Joseph Smith taught it. When Zina D. Huntington Young’s mother passed away, she asked Joseph, “Will I know my mother as my mother when I get over on the Other Side?” He responded, “Certainly you will. More than that, you will meet and become acquainted with your eternal Mother, the wife of your Father in Heaven.”4 Abraham H. Cannon recorded in his journal that Joseph Smith invited Sidney Rigdon and Zebedee Coltrin to “accompany him into the woods to pray,” where they experienced a succession of four visions–two of which included Heavenly Mother.5The earliest recorded expression intimating that Heavenly Mother is too sacred to talk about was written by a 20th Century seminary teacher, named Melvin R. Brooks: “Considering the way man has profaned the name of God, the Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ, is it any wonder that the name of our Mother in Heaven has been withheld, not to mention the fact that the mention of Her is practically nil in scripture?”6 It has not been repeated by any Church President, Apostle, or other General Authority. (Before sharing this truth, I first asked the sisters to raise their hands if they had ever been taught this well meaning, but incorrect conjecture. Every single woman had.)President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “How uplifting, comforting, is this thought, that the Father of Jesus Christ is in very deed our Father—that we are in very deed his offspring, and this is the doctrine of the Bible…And A Mother in Heaven! Latter-day Saints believe that not only have we a Father in heaven, but a mother there. Why not have a mother as well as a Father? Is there any blasphemy in this teaching?”7It was extremely common for early leaders to testify of Heavenly Mother. In fact, they would do so as simply and easily as we might stand on Fast Sunday and say, “I know that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ love me.” Whatever they were talking about, they included Her. Talking about the pre-mortal existence? Include Her! Talking about adversity? Include Her! For instance, on one occasion, Apostle, Orson F. Whitney, said, “We are taught that men and women, the sons and daughters of God, who were spirits in his presence, were sent here to take mortal tabernacles and undergo experiences that would in due time exalt them to the plane occupied by their Father and Mother in heaven.”8 On another, “All that we suffer and all that we endure, especially when we endure it patiently, builds up our characters, purifies our hearts, expands our souls, and makes us more tender and charitable, more worthy to be called the children of God … and it is through sorrow and suffering, toil and tribulation, that we gain the education that we come here to acquire and which will make us more like our Father and Mother in heaven.”9Almost every Church President has spoken specifically of Heavenly Mother, but none did so more often than Spencer W. Kimball.Apostle Neal A. Maxwell referred to truths concerning our Heavenly Mother as one of the “truths that [is] most relevant and most needed in the times in which [we] live.”10Most General Authorities today verbally pair Heavenly Father and Mother together with the phrase, “Heavenly Parents.” This may be because it mirrors the well known language of the Family Proclamation, but it also might be to emphasize the closeness and unity of the Father and Mother. An earlier Apostle, Erastus Snow, said, “If I believe anything that God has ever said about himself, and anything pertaining to the creation and organization of man upon the earth, I must believe that deity consists of man and woman…there can be no God except he is composed of the man and woman united, and there is not in all the eternities that exist, or ever will be a God in any other way.”11 3
Robert F. Smith Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Unfortunately the essay said nothing than acknowledge her.. She is still a trivial after though in our theology because she is still an assumed doctrine. Despite the essay. Whether she exists or not is irrelevant to my existence, salvation, relationship with God, or the role of women. It's a doctrine with no relevance of depth.And here I thought that the essay was beautiful, balanced, and sensitive. 3
Robert F. Smith Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 ...................................................... The essay states that we don't pray to her. Okay. Nice statement, but why?The essay states that we don't know much about her. Okay. Nice statement, but why? All this essay does is illustrate the inequity of a Mother versus her all powerful, Godly husband, and a theology with massive holes that prophets, seers and revelators aren't answering.We don't pray to Jesus either. So unfair . . . 1
Alan Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) I know it is church doctrine, or certainly appears to be nowadays.I know it makes sense and all that, but it just doesn't sit right with me.The truth is, I don't really believe it if I'm being honest. Edited October 24, 2015 by Alan
Calm Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Why not?I assume since you are LDS, you believe that exaltation only occurs for a couple, husband and wife. Why would this be so established if not on a pattern that God himself experiences? 2
Jeanne Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 If I really truly have a mother in heaven...I so want to talk to her..and even when I was an active member, I really needed her. Why is it a bad thing to want that? 1
Paddy Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 And here I thought that the essay was beautiful, balanced, and sensitive.So did I. Don't get me wrong, I have no fundamental issue with it. But it did not add any thing that we don't already assume about the doctrine. It just articulated it in an essay. My point is that the doctrine is filled more with assumptions. Which is that it is theologically logical that we have a heavenly mother. What that actually means is open to our assumptions and interpretation. We really no nothing more that a concept of a divine feminine. Does that mean that HM is a feminine attribute of God? Or is she a ressurected being? What role does she play in the work of salvation? What interactions does she have with humankind? What does it mean that she is the mother of our spirits - does it include inherited traits as a method of procreation, or is there another creative process and she is mother in title only? Does this effect the idea of "divine nature"? What does it mean for me that there is a HM?I raise these questions because there is nothing stated as being revealed, only assumed. 1
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