The 2Nd Coming Is Soon At Hand

[BCSpace]

What say you? are there any new signs that would lead us to believe things are different now and that the 2nd coming is truly at hand or is this believe just a continuation of the belief held in every other generation since Christ's resurrection?

 

Unfortunately, I believe things have to get much worse than they are before the Second Coming. One of the major things I look to is the condition of Israel.  While the West tends to leave Israel out on a limb more and more these days, they seem to be doing just fine protecting themselves from the continuous external/internal threats. I'm sure many have felt closer to the Second Coming based on the up and down status of Israel. I think the lesson learned maybe is that we are sometimes closer and sometimes farther away from the Second Coming.

 

However, I also believe the Second Comming, or at least the destruction and judgements associated with it, can be averted as per Jeremiah 18:1-10.

Edited November 24, 2014 by BCSpace

[HappyJackWagon]

Unfortunately, I believe things have to get much worse than they are before the Second Coming. One of the major things I look to is the condition of Israel.  While the West tends to leave Israel out on a limb more and more these days, they seem to be doing just fine protecting themselves from the continuous external/internal threats. I'm sure many have felt closer to the Second Coming based on the up and down status of Israel. I think the lesson learned maybe is that we are sometimes closer and sometimes farther away from the Second Coming.

 

However, I also believe the Second Comming, or at least the destruction and judgements associated with it, can be averted as per Jeremiah 18:1-10.

Interesting. Surely we don't want to postpone the 2nd coming but avoiding the death and destruction would be nice. I think that may be wishful thinking though.

[pogi]

"I have a friend who has a sister who has a friend who heard at her Stake conference from so and so general authority that...  So, go buy an automatic assault weapon to protect your food storage.  Be sure and buy some warm winter clothes too, because he also said that..."

 

That's how my family gatherings usually go on my wife's side.  sigh.

[Hamba Tuhan]

What say you? are there any new signs that would lead us to believe things are different now and that the 2nd coming is truly at hand or is this believe just a continuation of the belief held in every other generation since Christ's resurrection?

 

I definitely fall into the camp that says the best plan is to live right and not worry about the timing of such things. Having said that, I've been repeatedly struck this year that something seems to be afoot. Two years ago, our ward's one missionary companionship struggled to find a single investigator to teach. Now we have three companionships in our ward (down from four earlier), and all three of them are teaching progressing investigators. By my count, we have 13 individuals preparing for baptism. We've had nearly that same number already baptised this year. I set up 30 chairs for my Gospel Principles class this week, but it wasn't enough, and we had three people sitting around the corner of the divider. One of our ward members texted me an hour ago to tell me that they had three non-member families and the Sister missionaries for FHE last night. I still don't think 'the end is nigh', but I do think things are starting to get really interesting.

 

ETA: One of the missionaries serving from our ward was originally sent to West Africa, but when Ebola broke out, they sent him back here to his home country. From his email yesterday: 'We had an awesome turn out to our Gospel Principles class this week, it was over flowing and people had to sit in the hall way which was a cool problem to have'. So I don't think it's just a local phenomenon.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Hamba Tuhan

[ERayR]

Which ones? Can you elaborate?

 

Off the top of my head the following:

 

Israel and middle east

 

US constitution in jeopardy

 

Gospel preached across the world

[JLHPROF]

I think Christ will return "soonish" aka within the next 40-50 yrs give or take.

I think we have a setting in order very near in the future - starting with the church and moving from there. The signs I see are how many things need to be set in order - starting with halting or reversing the move towards "progressiveness".

[The Nehor]

The longstanding folklore about Church members needing to be ready to load up their handcarts to walk en masse to Jackson County, Mo., stems directly from the mistaken belief of pioneer-era Mormons that the Second Coming would transpire within their lifetimes. Even today, I see old-timers in the Church promoting that folk doctrine, even though I don't remember such a thing ever being taught in general conference or in authoritative Church manuals or periodicals in my lifetime. I get annoyed when I see or hear such things, because they tend to be disquieting to good but rather gullible people.

 

This doctrine is true. We even have the handcarts standing by ready. You didn't really think we bought those just for the Youth Trek reenactments did you?

[halconero]

When do I think it's coming? I honestly don't know.

Where is my hope though? That it is soon, God willing. I've long passed the point of my earlier youth where I said that I didn't want it to come too quickly. Let it be tomorrow, next week or next year, but let it be soon.

[Scott Lloyd]

Sounds like you know some old timers that let their Ensign subscriptions expire in the late 1970s.

More likely that they don't do much reading. Or they're not very discriminating in their sources and are more likely than not to get their information from traditional notions and sensational word-of-mouth rather than from authoritative sources.

 

Of course, it's not just old-timers who are prone to that. I see it among younger people who get their information from blogs and podcasts in preference to authoritative sermons, lesson manuals, websites and periodicals.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[canard78]

Maybe the youth have simply been listening to their priesthood leader:

Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.

Boyd K Packer, Oct 2011

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/counsel-to-youth?lang=eng

[LinuxGal]

 

The longstanding folklore about Church members needing to be ready to load up their handcarts to walk en masse to Jackson County, Mo., stems directly from the mistaken belief of pioneer-era Mormons that the Second Coming would transpire within their lifetimes.

 

Almost everyone who said they would live to see the Second Coming has already died. Even Christ himjself said the Second Coming would transpire within the lifetimes of some standing there listening to his discourse on the Mount of Olives.  Two thousand years of delay has stretched the meaning of "soon" far beyond the breaking point.  Something isn't right.

[strappinglad]

Israel has to do something to turn the whole world against it. I wonder what that could be. What if it preemptively strikes one of Iran's nuclear facilities and there is a meltdown of Chernoble proportions which wipes out 100,000 people? Would that do it? What if it 'accidently' destroys the mosque on the temple mount? Anyone foresee such drastic actions within the next 20 years? Anyone? Beuller?

Oh, and in case we have forgotten, there had to BE an Israel before the world could turn against it.

Edited November 25, 2014 by strappinglad

[LinuxGal]

Oh, and in case we have forgotten, there had to BE an Israel before the world could turn against it.

 

 

This state calling itself Israel, formed in May 1948, was founded by atheists from Eastern Europe in the aftermath of the second world war.  There are many practicing Jews there, of course, but it is entirely a secular state, and they certainly do not acknowlege Jesus Christ as lord.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Maybe the youth have simply been listening to their priesthood leader:

 

When I was doing my undergraduate study in America, Pres Hinckley came to our university and told us almost exactly the same thing.

[cinepro]

This state calling itself Israel, formed in May 1948, was founded by atheists from Eastern Europe in the aftermath of the second world war.  There are many practicing Jews there, of course, but it is entirely a secular state, and they certainly do not acknowlege Jesus Christ as lord.

 

The muslims will be so relieved.

[BCSpace]

Interesting. Surely we don't want to postpone the 2nd coming but avoiding the death and destruction would be nice. I think that may be wishful thinking though.

 

At the very least, the verses prove that God can and does change His mind.

[strappinglad]

Israel as a nation ceased to exist for about 1800 years. Had there been no WW2 I doubt there would be a nation of Israel today. Again, something enormously world changing happened to allow the establishment of Israel after 1800 years. Maybe we will have to wait another 1800 years before any further involvement of Israel with prophecy. Personally, I doubt it.

[LinuxGal]

Israel as a nation ceased to exist for about 1800 years. Had there been no WW2 I doubt there would be a nation of Israel today. Again, something enormously world changing happened to allow the establishment of Israel after 1800 years. Maybe we will have to wait another 1800 years before any further involvement of Israel with prophecy. Personally, I doubt it.

 

Actually, the Kingdom of Israel ceased to exist in 722 BCE when it was conquered by the Assyrians.  The southern kingdom of Judah lasted until it was conquered by Babylon in 587 BCE.  After that, it existed as the province of Judea under the Greeks, Ptolemies, Selucids, and Romans until it was destroyed by the Romans in 132 CE.  The Zion Project chose the name for their state at the last minute, and President Harry Truman recognized it, over the phone, 11 minutes after it was declared, before he even knew what the chosen name would be.  It often amuses me to see the importance that Christian believers attach to this new state when theologically the temple in Jerusalem will never be sanctified by God for making animal sacrifices again. Not after he sacrificed his son.

[rodheadlee]

I agree with those who have said it is best always to be circumspect in one's personal behavior, obeying the commandments, maintaining personal purity, etc., but at the same time not to live in a state of panic, spread unfounded rumors, go beyond what is openly taught by the Brethren, etc.

 

The longstanding folklore about Church members needing to be ready to load up their handcarts to walk en masse to Jackson County, Mo., stems directly from the mistaken belief of pioneer-era Mormons that the Second Coming would transpire within their lifetimes. Even today, I see old-timers in the Church promoting that folk doctrine, even though I don't remember such a thing ever being taught in general conference or in authoritative Church manuals or periodicals in my lifetime. I get annoyed when I see or hear such things, because they tend to be disquieting to good but rather gullible people.

 

 

From God's perspective it may be soon even though it is well beyond our lifetime but the claims by some members are much more precise than that. They are talking in man's perspective as though it really will be soon by the reckoning of our time. Is it possible? Sure. But it isn't know so creating a sense of panic as if they know may actually be counterproductive because it may actually turn the younger generation off.

 

In any case, it seems clear to me that we do not know when it will come, yet we should always be prepared. My gripe is when people act like they know when it will be and expect everyone else to follow their speculations.

Why would you panic if Christ were returning next week? We are supposed to have a working relationship with Christ and our Heavenly Father. Why would you not want to see Him in His Glory returning to Rule the Earth for a Thousand Years in Peace ? 

[Boanerges]

Actually, the Kingdom of Israel ceased to exist in 722 BCE when it was conquered by the Assyrians.  The southern kingdom of Judah lasted until it was conquered by Babylon in 587 BCE.  After that, it existed as the province of Judea under the Greeks, Ptolemies, Selucids, and Romans until it was destroyed by the Romans in 132 CE.  The Zion Project chose the name for their state at the last minute, and President Harry Truman recognized it, over the phone, 11 minutes after it was declared, before he even knew what the chosen name would be.  It often amuses me to see the importance that Christian believers attach to this new state when theologically the temple in Jerusalem will never be sanctified by God for making animal sacrifices again. Not after he sacrificed his son.

What about the sons of Levi making an offering (again) in righteousness?

[LinuxGal]

What about the sons of Levi making an offering (again) in righteousness?

 

HEBREWS 10

[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

[11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

[13] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

[15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

[rodheadlee]

"An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas."

 

Maybe Jesus said that because people who look for signs betray a wobbly faith.

 Now learn a parable of the ^afig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

  33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that ^ait is near, even at the ^bdoors.

[LinuxGal]

 

 Now learn a parable of the ^afig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

  33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that ^ait is near, even at the ^bdoors.

 

 

Many people believe he was speaking of when Titus and his daddy Vespasian came in and scraped Jerusalem out like a gourd.

[rodheadlee]

There was a discussion recently in church that became a bit heated. The instructor suggested that Christ will return very soon and he is concerned that many of the younger generation don't feel the urgency of this.

 

He cited the usual D&C quotes about signs of the times in the last days, wars, rumors of wars, plagues, earthquakes, mens hearts shall fail them, restoration of the gospel, redemption of Israel etc, etc.

 

A classmember made the counterclaim that there really are no new signs in the past 60 years that didn't exist previously, the last major sign being the creation of Israel as a nation state in the 1940's. So the plagues, wars etc that we experience now are repeats of history. There were plagues and wars in JSmiths day too. He also claimed that since the resurrection of Christ the believers have been looking for His imminent return. His apostles were looking for it. The saints in JS day expected the 2nd coming to happen almost immediately. In fact every generation has always believed they were living in the last days.

 

This is not to say that we shouldn't be concerned with our spiritual preparation but it is quite different to claim that the 2nd coming will happen in the next 1,5,10,20 years when no one can really know that.

 

What say you? are there any new signs that would lead us to believe things are different now and that the 2nd coming is truly at hand or is this believe just a continuation of the belief held in every other generation since Christ's resurrection?

The difference between Joseph Smith's generation and ours is we have lived under the threat of nuclear annihilation from birth. It wasn't possible to destroy the Earth through atomic warfare in JS's time. 

[rodheadlee]

Which ones? Can you elaborate?

Sixth Seal ? or just a precursor 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_and_tsunami

 

Rev 14:

 8 And there followed another angel, saying, ^aBabylon is ^bfallen, is fallen, that great ^ccity, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her^dfornication.

 

World Trade center 9/11 ?

 

Matthew 24: 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall ^akill you: and ye shall be ^bhated of all nations ^cfor my name’s sake.

  10 And then shall many be ^aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

 

The Holocaust?