SmileyMcGee Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 In my experience, the election of president Obama has caused a dramatic increase in brief among conservative members that the Second Coming is imminent.Hahaha...I noticed that too. Oh politics...
SmileyMcGee Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 Yes. Since 9/11 our civil liberties have been steadily eroding at an ever increasing rate.Even though Orson Hyde and others (my gggrandfather included) circled the globe preaching the gospel they did not preach to every tongue and people. Now we literally have missionaries in almost every country of the world.CFR. When you have a chance would you mind detailing how our civil liberties are "eroding at an ever increasing rate." I hear this claim quite frequently from one side of the political spectrum yet I haven't noticed any material change in the freedom I have to live how I would like to since 9/11.
theplains Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 What say you? are there any new signs that would lead us to believe things are different now and that the 2nd coming is truly at hand or is this believe just a continuation of the belief held in every other generation since Christ's resurrection? See The Coming of the Lord by Gerald N. Lund. According to earlier LDS teachings,Jesus will not return before the saints build the New Jerusalem in Jackson County. Regards,Jim
LinuxGal Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 See The Coming of the Lord by Gerald N. Lund. According to earlier LDS teachings,Jesus will not return before the saints build the New Jerusalem in Jackson County. So much for the "thief in the night" idea.
blooit Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 There are much fewer saints today who believe it is close than in the past (relatively speaking). I have sometimes wondered if this is not a sign of the times as well. We know that when he comes that many will say he delayeth his coming - and that he comes as a thief in the night. I think it will be surprising even to most saints. As far as signs... I think we do not necessarily interpret them well. For example, couldn't the advent of the internet be the fulfillment of the prophecy that the gospel will be preached to every nation, kindred, tongue and people? I think we will continue to have more and more signs, but recognize them less and less and once he comes, it will be a surprise to most. 1
ERayR Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 I don't doubt that people see things are bad and getting worse. I just think it has always seemed to be so. Yes it probably has and will continue to be so right up to the time God says enough.
ERayR Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 There are much fewer saints today who believe it is close than in the past (relatively speaking). I have sometimes wondered if this is not a sign of the times as well. We know that when he comes that many will say he delayeth his coming - and that he comes as a thief in the night. I think it will be surprising even to most saints. As far as signs... I think we do not necessarily interpret them well. For example, couldn't the advent of the internet be the fulfillment of the prophecy that the gospel will be preached to every nation, kindred, tongue and people? I think we will continue to have more and more signs, but recognize them less and less and once he comes, it will be a surprise to most. Indeed eat, drink and be merry. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 I both look forward to the 2nd Coming and am terrified at the same time. Especially since a lot of bad things have to happen in the world. The world is already full of bad and scary things already, and it's only going to get worse. I sure hope the Saints remain safe and protected.
ERayR Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 I both look forward to the 2nd Coming and am terrified at the same time. Especially since a lot of bad things have to happen in the world. The world is already full of bad and scary things already, and it's only going to get worse. I sure hope the Saints remain safe and protected. The saints live in the same world as the rest of the people. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 I agree with those who have said it is best always to be circumspect in one's personal behavior, obeying the commandments, maintaining personal purity, etc., but at the same time not to live in a state of panic, spread unfounded rumors, go beyond what is openly taught by the Brethren, etc. The longstanding folklore about Church members needing to be ready to load up their handcarts to walk en masse to Jackson County, Mo., stems directly from the mistaken belief of pioneer-era Mormons that the Second Coming would transpire within their lifetimes. Even today, I see old-timers in the Church promoting that folk doctrine, even though I don't remember such a thing ever being taught in general conference or in authoritative Church manuals or periodicals in my lifetime. I get annoyed when I see or hear such things, because they tend to be disquieting to good but rather gullible people. Sounds like you know some old timers that let their Ensign subscriptions expire in the late 1970s.Here's what Joseph Fielding McConkie said on this subject: Will the faithful be called on to walk back to Missouri?ANSWERThis is a classic Mormon myth. No scriptural justification can be given for it. It is true that a temple will yet be built in Jackson County, Missouri, which city will become the administrative headquarters for the Church. That does not mean, however, that all the faithful must live there or that those who go must arrive on foot.During the time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, it was necessary for members of the Church to gather to Zion for both spiritual and physical safety. This is not necessary in our day, nor is it desirable. Temples are now being built throughout the world, and the Saints in many nations are able to participate in all the programs of the Church. For some years now members of the Church throughout the world have been asked to remain in their homelands to build up the Church where they live. Elder Bruce R. McConkie made that point in an area conference in Mexico City, and President Harold B. Lee repeated his statement for the direction of the whole Church in a subsequent general conference: "The place of gathering for the Mexican Saints is in Mexico; the place of gathering for the Guatemalan Saints is in Guatemala; the place of gathering for the Brazilian Saints is in Brazil; and so it goes throughout the length and breadth of the whole earth. Japan is for the Japanese; Korea is for the Koreans; Australia is for the Australians; every nation is the gathering place for its own people" (in Conference Report, April 1973, 7).In his vision of the last days Nephi saw congregations of the Saints "upon all the face of the earth" and said that they "were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory" (1 Ne. 14:14). Describing the Church in the millennial day, Isaiah used the imagery of a tent: "Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thy habitations; spare not, lengthen thy cords and strengthen thy stakes; for thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left, and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles and make the desolate cities to be inhabited" (3 Ne. 22:2-3; Isa. 54:2-3).In D&C 45:66 the New Jerusalem is called "a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God." We are further told that "the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion. And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety. And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another. And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand. And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy" (D&C 45:67-71).The language of this text in the Doctrine and Covenants seems somewhat at odds with the passages from Isaiah and 3 Nephi quoted above. There we speak of the dispersal of the righteous throughout the nations of the earth, whereas the text in the Doctrine and Covenants implies a gathering of the righteous to Jackson County, the center stake of Zion. This apparent discrepancy is resolved in the principle that all revelation is subject to interpretation by the light of subsequent revelation. For instance, D&C 115:6 tells us that the gathering upon "the land of Zion, and upon her stakes, may be for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm, and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth." Joseph Smith further told us that Zion "consists of all North & South America but that any place where the Saints gather is Zion which every righteous man will build up for a place of safety for his children" (Jessee, "Joseph Smith's 19 July 1840 Discourse," 392; see also Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 362). 1
Scott Lloyd Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) The saints live in the same world as the rest of the people.Nevertheless, they are to "stand in holy places." I have always understood that to mean it is as much for their protection as anything else. Edited to add: We are subject to some of the same vicissitudes that others experience. but a lot of peril and adversity can be avoided through personal righteousness and strong families. Edited November 25, 2014 by Scott Lloyd
ERayR Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 Nevertheless, they are to "stand in holy places." I have always understood that to mean it is as much for their protection as anything else. Edited to add: We are subject to some of the same vicissitudes that others experience. but a lot of peril and adversity can be avoided through personal righteousness and strong families. But if you live in Ferguson MO and have a small business it has a good chance of being looted and burned. Your life savings wiped out. If you don't go where the rioting is at you are relatively safe from physical harm but you can't move your store.
Scott Lloyd Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 But if you live in Ferguson MO and have a small business it has a good chance of being looted and burned. Your life savings wiped out. If you don't go where the rioting is at you are relatively safe from physical harm but you can't move your store. I said "a lot of peril and adversity can be avoided." I didn't say we could be totally free from it. I said the contrary, in fact.
ERayR Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 I said "a lot of peril and adversity can be avoided." I didn't say we could be totally free from it. I said the contrary, in fact.
LinuxGal Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 But if you live in Ferguson MO and have a small business it has a good chance of being looted and burned. Your life savings wiped out. If you don't go where the rioting is at you are relatively safe from physical harm but you can't move your store. Gosh, maybe if they didn't keep going after police in that town they'd be better protected.
ERayR Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Gosh, maybe if they didn't keep going after police in that town they'd be better protected. I don't think that was Church members and yet the Church members still have to live through it.
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 It's interesting that these riots are happening in Missouri and that's where zion is supposed to be.
Calm Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 "There are much fewer saints today who believe it is close than in the past (relatively speaking)." Not sure about that given the most popular LDS themed books on Amazon and what was the bestselling book at Seagull Books last I heard. (books reporting dubious imo NDEs that included visions of what the future was to hold….I say dubious because I just don't see the US ever inviting North Korea into the States to help in peacekeeping nor do I think if there was a world wide catastrophe bringing down the economic system, creating plagues, etc. that China, Russia or North Korea would have the troops to spare from controlling their own people to come over and conquer the US).
djones Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 4 facts to remember 1) Christ said nearly 200 years ago that his coming was very near, even at the doors (those are some SLOOOOW moving doors). But 200 years to him is probably nothing now that he's back on Kolob time. What if to Him it feels like he is coming in a couple of hours from now? 2) He is going to come in the "beginning of the 7th thousand year period". That's now but it's anybody's guess of the interpretation. The first hundred years could easily still be considered the beginning of a 1,000 year period. 3) The world will say that He delayeth his coming. I'm seeing that. Are you? Another sign of the times. 4) Every day is one day closer than we were yesterday. He IS coming so prepare spiritually mainly, temporally as well but don't be a fanatic, and enjoy the journey and stop worrying about it.
rodheadlee Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) But the only ones who will survive the Second Coming of Christ will be those accounted worthy to attain to everlasting life, and Christ said those will not marry or be given in marriage.Isaiah 2 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us ago up to the bmountain of the Lord, to the chouse of the God of Jacob; and he will dteach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of eZion shall go forth the flaw, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall ajudge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn bwar any more. Ezekiel 3633 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. 34 And the adesolate land shall be btilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the agarden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become bfenced, andare inhabited. 36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord abuild the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spokenit, and I will bdo it. Edited November 26, 2014 by rodheadlee
ERayR Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 REV 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. I do not see anything about not marrying or being married. Please elaborate.
ERayR Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 So much for the "thief in the night" idea. Only for those who ignore the signs.
LinuxGal Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 I do not see anything about not marrying or being married. Please elaborate. Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage.
JLHPROF Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage. That's right - too late for a wedding after the resurrection of the dead (at the end of the Millennial Reign). But it doesn't say they don't remain married, just that they don't marry. Husband and wives (when sealed by authority) are still husband and wife. But no more weddings once this earth's temporal life is finished. 2
LinuxGal Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 That's right - too late for a wedding after the resurrection of the dead (at the end of the Millennial Reign). But it doesn't say they don't remain married, just that they don't marry. Husband and wives (when sealed by authority) are still husband and wife. But no more weddings once this earth's temporal life is finished. That works, comports with what I am saying, and provides an answer ("no") to rodheadlee, upthread who wrote: "Why do people think the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is the End of the World? Can we not get married and have children during the Millennium? it will be a beautiful 1000 years!"
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