Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I awill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall cprepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. The verse above from 1 Nephi 3:7 is a popular verse in the Book of Mormon and is often quoted by LDS. This verse teaches that man has the ability to keep the commandments. I have asked LDS if they believe that they have the ability to keep all of the commandments and most have said that they do have this ability. Are there any LDS that believe that they don't have the ability to keep the commandments?
Calm Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Depends on what you mean by ability. Right now, right away? No. Overtime, learning to let go of one sin and another through repentance and partaking of the Atonement….if I was able to live long enough and could control my environment enough to create a perfect place to live (both of which are impossible for a mortal of course), maybe, but not being perfect in keeping the commandments now doesn't mean I shouldn't keep working at it and I will get the opportunity to fully live the commandments in the next life through God's Will. I suspect what most LDS mean is that the potential is there, no one is forced to sin and therefore people could keep all of the commandments, but they allow themselves not to because of their weaknesses. Do you believe that all things are possible with God? If so, would not being able to keep all the commandments be possible if God helped one?
Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Author Posted September 19, 2014 Depends on what you mean by ability. Right now, right away? No. Overtime, learning to let go of one sin and another through repentance and partaking of the Atonement….if I was able to live long enough and could control my environment enough to create a perfect place to live (both of which are impossible for a mortal of course), maybe, but not being perfect in keeping the commandments now doesn't mean I shouldn't keep working at it and I will get the opportunity to fully live the commandments in the next life through God's Will. I suspect what most LDS mean is that the potential is there, no one is forced to sin and therefore people could keep all of the commandments, but they allow themselves not to because of their weaknesses. Do you believe that all things are possible with God? If so, would not being able to keep all the commandments be possible if God helped one?1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I awill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. Perhaps I am reading the above verse incorrectly but it does say that God will not give you a commandment that you cannot keep. Therefore the only reason that a person does not keep all of the commandments is that he willfully chooses not to do so.
Flyonthewall Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I awill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall cprepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. The verse above from 1 Nephi 3:7 is a popular verse in the Book of Mormon and is often quoted by LDS. This verse teaches that man has the ability to keep the commandments. I have asked LDS if they believe that they have the ability to keep all of the commandments and most have said that they do have this ability. Are there any LDS that believe that they don't have the ability to keep the commandments?I believe the answer is yes, and no. We are mortal and fallible so we are bound to slip up... but God gave us repentance thru the atonement to wipe the slate clean when we do slip up. In this way it will be as if we did not slip up at all. And yes, repentance is a commandment.
CV75 Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I awill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. Perhaps I am reading the above verse incorrectly but it does say that God will not give you a commandment that you cannot keep. Therefore the only reason that a person does not keep all of the commandments is that he willfully chooses not to do so. It says, "save he shall prepare a way" for us to keep the commandments. We can only keep them if we enter into His way and remain on His path. Because the Lord has a more eternal perspective than we do, from our more temporal perspective, we need to consider that it includes the idea of "eventuality." It also says, "may," which means we have to be willing and then choose to enter into His way and remain on His path. There are also many other scriptures that support how all this works; I think the most pertinent are those that describe the doctrine of Christ. 2
rpn Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 I don't think your therefore- it-is-all- willful -disobedience follows from that scripture. Every day we are baptized, doing our personal best and quickly repenting, we are perfect in Christ because the atonement bridges the complete gap between objective perfection and our personal best. As we continue doing our personal best and quickly repenting, we are able to be objectively perfect in more and more things ourselves. More importantly our desire to keep all the commandments flowers by that obedience line up line. We lose the natural man desire to sin and move to that change of heart so we have no more desire to do evil but to do good continually. This is a function of overcoming the natural man and learning to use this new body we came to earth to get and learn to use in His service.
Avatar4321 Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 With the grace of God man can do all things.
Vance Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) <SNIP> Well since you claim to be big on the Bible. We do have this. 1 Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. It is clear that God provides us a way avoid committing sin. The Bible clearly teaches us so. Edited September 19, 2014 by Vance 4
stemelbow Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 It seems like this might be referring to special little assignment commandments not necessarily all commandments. But the principle still works, thus many LDS folks refer to this to refer to all commandments. He prepares a way for man to keep them--it does not suggest men will nor can keep them all.
Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Author Posted September 19, 2014 I believe the answer is yes, and no. We are mortal and fallible so we are bound to slip up... but God gave us repentance thru the atonement to wipe the slate clean when we do slip up. In this way it will be as if we did not slip up at all.And yes, repentance is a commandment.I want to talk about repentance and the role that it plays in receiving forgiveness of sins--from an LDS point of view--but before we do that I would like to summarize things and see if we are in agreement thus far. We are given commandmentsWe are expected to keep themWe have the ability to keep themWhen we break the commandments we have willfully chosen to disobey GodWhen we willfully choose to disobey God we do not have forgiveness of sins
Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Author Posted September 19, 2014 Well since you claim to be big on the Bible. We do have this.1 Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.It is clear that God provides us a way avoid committing sin. The Bible clearly teaches us so.I take it from your statement above that man does have the ability to obey all of the commandments all of the time.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) I want to talk about repentance and the role that it plays in receiving forgiveness of sins--from an LDS point of view--but before we do that I would like to summarize things and see if we are in agreement thus far. We are given commandmentsWe are expected to keep themWe have the ability to keep themWhen we break the commandments we have willfully chosen to disobey GodWhen we willfully choose to disobey God we do not have forgiveness of sinsBut we can repent of our sins if we have broken hearts and contrite spirits. That is were the atonement comes in. It does not end with what you say. IOW salvation is a process not an event. Edited September 19, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram 1
Vance Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 I take it from your statement above that man does have the ability to obey all of the commandments all of the time. What do you think the relationship is between sin and obedience to commandments? 1
JLHPROF Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 I believe it is Yes, we can keep any commandment at any given time. And No, we cannot keep all of the commandments all of the time.We would have little need of the Savior if we were able to keep all the commandments all of the time. But fortunately we have his grace "after all we can do" as 2nd Nephi states it. I think eventually we WILL be able to keep all the commandments all the time.
The Nehor Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 In theory, yes but the scriptures tell us no one but Jesus will pull off complete obedience. If you did this you would not need the atonement except in that it allows your resurrection and return to the presence of God. You would not need an advocate with the Father or repentance. Again, all theoretical. I has not happened and will not happen, at least on this world.
Ahab Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 I want to talk about repentance and the role that it plays in receiving forgiveness of sins--from an LDS point of view--but before we do that I would like to summarize things and see if we are in agreement thus far.We are given commandmentsWe are expected to keep themWe have the ability to keep themWhen we break the commandments we have willfully chosen to disobey GodWhen we willfully choose to disobey God we do not have forgiveness of sinsA more wordy version of what you might mean would be more helpful here, something like this:We are given commandments by God both personally from God and also through his prophets which God can personally assureus were given by God, and in this way we don't have to take the word of any man as if that man's word is the same as God's word, even though God can assure us that a man's words were given or inspired by God in the event that they were.God expects us to sin which is why he provided a Savior to save us from when we do sin and our Savior expects us to do our best to follow his example to not sin while knowing God does and will always provide a way to turn away from sin when we want to turn away.We do have the ability to keep God's commandments although we can't always do it through our own power. Sometimes, and often, we need God to help us.When we don't obey all of the commandments of God it may be because we don't know all of them, so we should commune with him to find out what he wants us to do.When we willfully disobey God our disobedience is what is referred to as a "sin" and we will be held accountable for our disobedience except in the cases where we have repented.And here is where you can talk about what repentance is, if you want to.
Tacenda Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Depends on what the commandments really are. Jesus did away with "the law" per se. So we need to narrow down what the commandments are now, in order to keep them. Are we trying to keep laws that are no longer on the books? Or are there commandments that are impossible to keep, are those there to show us our need for our Saviour? Could be that possibility? Edited September 19, 2014 by Tacenda
Tacenda Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Are there more than 10 commandments?I've always thought there were. But it's not cut and dry.
Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Author Posted September 19, 2014 What do you think the relationship is between sin and obedience to commandments?When we break the commandments we are sinners. Now could you address what I said--here it is again for you. I take it from your statement above that man does have the ability to obey all of the commandments all of the time.
Vance Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Now could you address what I said--here it is again for you.WOW! You sure expect people to answer your question, but you are unwilling to answer all of our questions. But, that being said, I will answer yours. I take it from your statement above that man does have the ability to obey all of the commandments all of the time.OBVIOUSLY it can be done, because Jesus did it. Or do you reject that Jesus was "fully man"? 1
Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Author Posted September 19, 2014 I believe it is Yes, we can keep any commandment at any given time. And No, we cannot keep all of the commandments all of the time.We would have little need of the Savior if we were able to keep all the commandments all of the time. But fortunately we have his grace "after all we can do" as 2nd Nephi states it. I think eventually we WILL be able to keep all the commandments all the time.1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I awill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. You said "we cannot keep all of the commandments all of the time." You "cannot" OR do you choose not to obey all of the commandments all of the time
Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Author Posted September 19, 2014 CandaiguaI take it from your statement above that man does have the ability to obey all of the commandments all of the time. VanceOBVIOUSLY it can be done, because Jesus did it. Or do you reject that Jesus was "fully man"?Since you have the ability to obey the commandments and yet you willfully choose to disobey God do you feel that you have forgiveness of sins?
Anakin7 Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 NIV 1 John 2:17 - The world and it's desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Author Posted September 19, 2014 NIV 1 John 2:17 - The world and it's desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 I take it from your response that you can and do obey all the commandments. Is that correct?
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