Anakin7 Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) By way of His awesome Grace gift he walks besides me and assists me. Repentance as well. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited September 19, 2014 by Anakin7
Vance Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Since you have the ability to obey the commandments and yet you willfully choose to disobey God do you feel that you have forgiveness of sins?When I repent of them, yes. I mean true repentance, not the superficial kind promoted by some Christians. Edited to add, God has said, 30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me. Also we have this, Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Edited September 19, 2014 by Vance
Calm Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 I will ask Can again as I did above: Do you believe that all things are possible with God? If so, would not being able to keep all the commandments be possible if God helped one? 1
Ahab Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Can do and do are not always the same.Just don't go crying to God saying you COULD NOT obey all of his commandments that you knew were his commandments.We all CAN DO, as far as we know what he has commanded, it's just that we DO NOT even though we always CAN.
Vance Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 I will ask Can again as I did above: Do you believe that all things are possible with God? If so, would not being able to keep all the commandments be possible if God helped one?Those are very good questions. Will Canadaguia answer them, (like he expects us to answer his questions) or will in avoid it, (like he usually does)? I also have some questions for him. Was Jesus fully man? Was Jesus fully obedient? Did Jesus provide us an example of obedience to follow? Are we to follow His example of obedience or not?
Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Author Posted September 19, 2014 I will ask Can again as I did above: Do you believe that all things are possible with God? If so, would not being able to keep all the commandments be possible if God helped one?Man is incapable of obeying all of the commandments. This seems to be the complete opposite of the LDS point of view which is that man is able to obey all of the commandments. Do you think that this is a fair assessment of our difference?
Canadaigua Posted September 19, 2014 Author Posted September 19, 2014 Was Jesus fully man? Was Jesus fully obedient? Did Jesus provide us an example of obedience to follow? Are we to follow His example of obedience or not?Jesus is God. Man is not. LDS bring down Jesus and elevate man. This just illustrates another huge gap between Protestant beliefs and LDS beliefs. 1
Ahab Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Jesus is God. Man is not. LDS bring down Jesus and elevate man. This just illustrates another huge gap between Protestant beliefs and LDS beliefs.If you don't believe the person you refer to as God, our Father in heaven, is really our Father in heaven, then yes there is that huge gap in our beliefs. And the good news is that we are right.
Vance Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Man is incapable of obeying all of the commandments.Show me in the Bible. Remember, you are a sola scripurist, if it isn't in the Bible then you can't believe it. This seems to be the complete opposite of the LDS point of view which is that man is able to obey all of the commandments.So, are you rejecting the "Jesus is fully man" part of the Trinitarian doctrine? If it is impossible for man to obey all of the commandments then Jesus was NOT fully, thus making Trinitarian doctrine false. Do you think that this is a fair assessment of our difference?Yes, we believe the Bible and you do not. That is the basic difference. Jesus came to show us it could be done. He is our example of obedience. John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and THEY FOLLOW ME: John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. 1 Pet 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Vance Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Jesus is God. Man is not.Well, by the standard you have used here, then you are not a Christian. When you got here you told us that because we rejected the Trinitarian God that we could not be Christians. The Trinitarian doctrine requires Jesus to be fully man. Therefore you are excluding yourself from being a Christian by your own standard. LDS bring down Jesus. . .No, we don't. We just understand the Bible better than you. and elevate manLOL!! We just believe what the Bible teaches us about man. If believing that Jesus is an exalted Man means that we are elevating man, then so be it. This just illustrates another huge gap between Protestant beliefs and LDS beliefs.Here is a clue for you. We don't care what Protestants believe. They are free to believe whatever they want. But by rejecting "Jesus is fully man" you are rejecting the Trinitarian doctrine. Se where anti-Mormonism can lead you?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Man is incapable of obeying all of the commandments. This seems to be the complete opposite of the LDS point of view which is that man is able to obey all of the commandments. Do you think that this is a fair assessment of our difference?Man by himself is incapable of obeying the commands. Not sure how to say it any more plainly than that. We can become perfect through Christ. Do you not believe that? Is that not the point of Christ's sacrifice? And all LDS believe that, that through Christ we receive the ability to become perfect. Maybe you can stop with the canard of "LDS point of view which is that man is able to obey all of the commandments" No one has ever said that unconditionally, accept you and your evangelical friends. Edited September 19, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 Jesus is God. Man is not. LDS bring down Jesus and elevate man. This just illustrates another huge gap between Protestant beliefs and LDS beliefs.A more correct phase is that Jesus is divine so is the Father, and so is the HG. THey are all divine. There is more than one God. Sorry but that is what the bible teaches. The bible does not teach monotheism. You should just start dealing with that.
Calm Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 Man is incapable of obeying all of the commandments. So not all things are possible to God in your view?
Flyonthewall Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 I want to talk about repentance and the role that it plays in receiving forgiveness of sins--from an LDS point of view--but before we do that I would like to summarize things and see if we are in agreement thus far. We are given commandments We are expected to keep them We have the ability to keep them When we break the commandments we have willfully chosen to disobey God When we willfully choose to disobey God we do not have forgiveness of sins When we repent we receive a forgiveness of sinsYou forgot one. I added it the list. 1
strappinglad Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 According to the Bible there are really only 2 commandments. You should actually ask if man has the ability to obey BOTH of them.
Rain Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 Cal asked this question: Do you believe that all things are possible with God? You answered:Man is incapable of obeying all of the commandments. This seems to be the complete opposite of the LDS point of view which is that man is able to obey all of the commandments. Do you think that this is a fair assessment of our difference?We teach our children to answer yes/no questions, with varying results, this way:- Yes, I believe all things are possible with God. Let me explain....- No, I don't believe that. Let me explain.- I don't know.- I don't want to answer that question. It would be helpful to the conversation if you would answer that way. 1
Vanguard Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: Iawill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall cprepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. The verse above from 1 Nephi 3:7 is a popular verse in the Book of Mormon and is often quoted by LDS. This verse teaches that man has the ability to keep the commandments. I have asked LDS if they believe that they have the ability to keep all of the commandmentsand most have said that they do have this ability. Are there any LDS that believe that they don't have the ability to keep the commandments? Well of course there is a conceptual pathway for all to accomplish all things the Lord commands of us though none avail themselves of such pathways entirely. Maybe Nephi means the commandments the Lord commands him to accomplish though I suspect he fell even short of that mark on occasion. I believe many in the church have distorted this passage to mean "where there is a will there is a way". Not necessarily so. We all have our capacities and though we may cognitively understand what needs to be done in any given situation, we many times will still fall short of the mark due to some combination of our natural man tendencies and our God-given capacities to obey.
Canadaigua Posted September 20, 2014 Author Posted September 20, 2014 If you don't believe the person you refer to as God, our Father in heaven, is really our Father in heaven, then yes there is that huge gap in our beliefs. And the good news is that we are right.So you don't believe that Jesus is God? Is that what your are saying by your comment above?
Canadaigua Posted September 20, 2014 Author Posted September 20, 2014 Yes, we believe the Bible and you do not. That is the basic difference.Jesus came to show us it could be done. He is our example of obedience.John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and THEY FOLLOW ME:John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.1 Pet 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: And the bottom line--from what I can see from your posts on this--is that you have the ability to obey all of the commandments. Is that a fair assessment of your position?
Canadaigua Posted September 20, 2014 Author Posted September 20, 2014 You forgot one. I added it the list.We are given commandmentsWe are expected to keep themWe have the ability to keep themWhen we break the commandments we have willfully chosen to disobey GodWhen we willfully choose to disobey God we do not have forgiveness of sins So it appears that you agree with the above statements thus far and you then added "When we repent we receive a forgiveness of sins" So let's talk about repentance. There are many steps for LDS repentance but the one step that I would like to focus on is the following from LDS.org "Abandonment of Sin. Although confession is an essential element of repentance, it is not enough. The Lord has said, “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them” (D&C 58:43). (LDS.org) Unless you have abandoned your sins you have not truly repented.
Canadaigua Posted September 20, 2014 Author Posted September 20, 2014 So not all things are possible to God in your view?All things are possible for God. But we are not God and we are incapable of obeying the commandments. This is completely opposite of the LDS position which teaches that man is capable of obeying the commandments. We can go point by point and show how far away Mormonism is from the teachings of Christianity.
Anakin7 Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 Which has been presented to us endlessly and responded to adinfinentum. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) This has been defended point by point showing True LDS Doctrines/Teachings are indeed Christian and Biblical . http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/book/offenders-for-a-word In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited September 20, 2014 by Anakin7
Canadaigua Posted September 20, 2014 Author Posted September 20, 2014 Which has been presented to us endlessly and responded to adinfinentum. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 This has been defended point by point showing True LDS Doctrines/Teachings are indeed Christian and Biblical . http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/book/offenders-for-a-word In His Debt/Grace Anakin7Can you give me a specific chapter or page number that you are referring?
Anakin7 Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 Read The entire Chapters . In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
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