HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Romans 5: 20 says the law was given to show the extent of how we can't keep the law
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Author Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) False. It is nigh impossible to keep all commandments 100% of the time, but Jesus did show us it could be done.Can we obey all the commandments? - sure, not perfectly, but we can obey them all. When we fall short, God in His infinite mercy has provided a way that it can be accounted to us as perfect - repentance, and the Atonement. God magnifies our efforts as long as we are striving to obey.False.Your conclusion is somewhat convoluted - we are expected to obey the commandments in this life and if we never even try, then in no way can we expect exaltation. Obedience to the commandments can and should take place in this life as best as we can.1. It is impossible for man to keep the commandments in this life2. You must keep the commandments before being exalted3. Therefore obedience to the commandments can only take place after death After reading you answer it appears that you agree with my three points. Edited January 4, 2015 by Canadaigua
Teancum Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) I take it from your answer that you believe that God gives you commandments that you are incapable of keeping. Is that correct?I take it from your response you are struggling with reading comprehension issues.I: I belevie much of the Bible is man made up. I am border line agnostic though I hope there is a God and Jesus is His son.2: If God is real and humans are fallen, no they cannot keep all the commandments God gave thus the need for a savior.So now I ask you, does your so called "Christian God " give commandments he knows we cannot keep? Did he know Adam and Eve would fail and create a fallen world for the rest of humans to live in and fail? Did your God choose who he would and would not save at the instant of creation? Edited January 4, 2015 by Teancum
Bobbieaware Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Romans 5: 20 says the law was given to show the extent of how we can't keep the lawBut then in Romans 8 Paul 'switches gears' and teaches us that man can keep the law of God through the gifts and powers of God bequeathed to man through the atoning sacrifice of Christ. That's why Psul triumphantly declared, "I can do ALL THINGS through Christ, which strengtheneth me." 3
Flyonthewall Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 1. It is impossible for man to keep the commandments in this life 2. You must keep the commandments before being exalted 3. Therefore obedience to the commandments can only take place after death After reading you answer it appears that you agree with my three points.I have shown you where I do not agree. You are not comprehending plain language. Is English your second language? 2
Jude2 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I think we need to put this back in context. Nephi is a young and eager son whose older brothers are rebelling and he desires to impress his father. ‘I’ll do it dad, I’ll do it’ “…for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.” Was he giving a us a dissertations on perfection? No! He was talking about going back to Jerusalem and taking off into the wilderness. What he sees is an adventure he has no idea yet just how hard it’s going to be but he does understand that he wants to follow God’s will. Years later an older and mature man writes again, this time he understands much more fully his own weaknesses. 2 Nephi 4 17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities. 18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me. 19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted. 20 My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep. 21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh. 22 He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me. 23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the night-time. 24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me. 25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them. 26 O then, if I have seen so great things, if the Lord in his condescension unto the children of men hath visited men in so much mercy, why should my heart weep and my soul linger in the valley of sorrow, and my flesh waste away, and my strength slacken, because of mine afflictions? 27 And why should I yield to sin, because of my flesh? Yea, why should I give way to temptations, that the evil one have place in my heart to destroy my peace and afflict my soul? Why am I angry because of mine enemy? 28 Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul. 29 Do not anger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions. 30 Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 31 O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin? 32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road! 33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy. 34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm. 35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen. 1
Canadaigua Posted January 5, 2015 Author Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I have shown you where I do not agree. You are not comprehending plain language. Is English your second language?Let's look at your post again and see what you said Canadaaigua1. It is impossible for man to keep the commandments in this life FlyonthewallFalse. It is nigh impossible to keep all commandments 100% of the time, but Jesus did show us it could be done.Can we obey all the commandments? - sure, not perfectly, but we can obey them all. When we fall short, God in His infinite mercy has provided a way that it can be accounted to us as perfect - repentance, and the Atonement. God magnifies our efforts as long as we are striving to obey. Canadaigua2. You must keep the commandments before being exalted3. Therefore obedience to the commandments can only take place after death FlyonthewallFalse.Your conclusion is somewhat convoluted - we are expected to obey the commandments in this life and if we never even try, then in no way can we expect exaltation. Obedience to the commandments can and should take place in this life as best as we can. When asked if we can obey all of the commandments you said-- "sure, not perfectly" When asked about obedience to all of the commandments in this life verses after we die you said-- "Obedience to the commandments can and should take place in this life as best as we can." As I said before it appears that you agree with these three points.1. It is impossible for man to keep the commandments in this life2. You must keep the commandments before being exalted3. Therefore obedience to the commandments can only take place after death Edited January 5, 2015 by Canadaigua
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 After reading you answer it appears that you agree with my three points. Rofl I vote for the reading comprehension thing.
Canadaigua Posted January 5, 2015 Author Posted January 5, 2015 Rofl I vote for the reading comprehension thing.So do you believe that a person is capable of obeying all of the commandments?
Guest Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I awill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall cprepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. The verse above from 1 Nephi 3:7 is a popular verse in the Book of Mormon and is often quoted by LDS. This verse teaches that man has the ability to keep the commandments. I have asked LDS if they believe that they have the ability to keep all of the commandments and most have said that they do have this ability. Are there any LDS that believe that they don't have the ability to keep the commandments?No...but he does have the ability to repent. This is why God gave us repentance, he knows us and loves us...that is why I love him, ""because he first loved us".
Canadaigua Posted January 5, 2015 Author Posted January 5, 2015 No...but he does have the ability to repent. This is why God gave us repentance, he knows us and loves us...that is why I love him, ""because he first loved us".So you believe that God gives you commandments that you are unable to keep?
Vance Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I take it from your response you are struggling with reading comprehension issues. That summarizes the situation perfectly.
Vance Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) So do you believe that a person is capable of obeying all of the commandments?So, you reject these scriptures then. Matt. 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. Not very "Christian" of you to reject the teachings of Jesus like that. Edited January 5, 2015 by Vance
teddyaware Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 So do you believe that a person is capable of obeying all of the commandments? The answer is yes......... eventually. Faithful Latter-day Saint know the day will come come -- as surely as day follows night -- when they will overcome the world and all enemies will put under their feet, and this by means of the gracious outpouring of the gifts and powers of God. And when that day comes, the saints will rise up in the full dignity of the sons and daughters of God and will be joint heirs with Jesus Christ in all the eternal riches He has inherited from his Father. Then will the saying of Christ be fulfilled when He commanded His people by saying "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect." In that day the faithful will be given the right to sit on the throne of Christ's power, even as Christ Himself overcame all things "and is sat down with His Father in His (the Father's) throne." When the day comes that the saints receive "a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory" and become full "partakers of the divine nature," then they will be fully empowered by the Spirit to keep all the commandments of God, and thereby find eternal happiness by living in perfect harmony with the will of Lord of glory. Until that day, the saints will strive to do the will of God, even though they know they won't become perfect in keeping His commandments in this life. The day of perfect obedience will not arrive until the the resurrection, when the devil is cast out and all things become new.
Vance Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) So you believe that God gives you commandments that you are unable to keep?I guess you reject this part of the Bible. Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. Edited January 5, 2015 by Vance
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 So you believe that God gives you commandments that you are unable to keep?Apparently you believe it. For you your self deny the very words of Jesus.
Guest Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 So you believe that God gives you commandments that you are unable to keep?since he is the "Lawgiver", he commands us and tells us that one can only enter the "kingdom of heaven". Paul warns that if we do not obey many commands that we cannot into into the Kingdom of God. If you need the Biblical scripture for just these two examples...let me know.
Flyonthewall Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Let's look at your post again and see what you said Canadaaigua 1. It is impossible for man to keep the commandments in this life Flyonthewall False. It is nigh impossible to keep all commandments 100% of the time, but Jesus did show us it could be done. Can we obey all the commandments? - sure, not perfectly, but we can obey them all. When we fall short, God in His infinite mercy has provided a way that it can be accounted to us as perfect - repentance, and the Atonement. God magnifies our efforts as long as we are striving to obey. Canadaigua 2. You must keep the commandments before being exalted 3. Therefore obedience to the commandments can only take place after death Flyonthewall False. Your conclusion is somewhat convoluted - we are expected to obey the commandments in this life and if we never even try, then in no way can we expect exaltation. Obedience to the commandments can and should take place in this life as best as we can. When asked if we can obey all of the commandments you said-- "sure, not perfectly" When asked about obedience to all of the commandments in this life verses after we die you said-- "Obedience to the commandments can and should take place in this life as best as we can." As I said before it appears that you agree with these three points. 1. It is impossible for man to keep the commandments in this lifeFalse! I can keep the commandments - not perfectly, but I can keep them. There will be times that I do not, then I obey the commandment to repent and I am back on track. I strive to improve myself everyday. 2. You must keep the commandments before being exaltedagreed. 3. Therefore obedience to the commandments can only take place after deathFalse! Obedience happens in this life and continues in the next. We are not perfect so our obedience will not be perfect. We have all of eternity to become perfect. Do you susbscribe to "I can't keep them all so why try to keep any?". Edited January 6, 2015 by Flyonthewall
Canadaigua Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 False! I can keep the commandments - not perfectly, but I can keep them. There will be times that I do not, then I obey the commandment to repent and I am back on track.So you have the ability to keep all of the commandments. Thanks for that admission.If you have the ability to keep the commandments--yet you continue to break the commandments--you certainly don't meet the criteria "after all you can do".
Canadaigua Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 Do you susbscribe to "I can't keep them all so why try to keep any?".Not at all. But that is the common charge given by those who are involved in works based religions.
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Romans 5:20-21 teaches that the commandments were givens to us to show the extent of are failure to obey God's laws and see God Grace stepping in.
Mars Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Romans 5:20-21 teaches that the commandments were givens to us to show the extent of are failure to obey God's laws and see God Grace stepping in. Which is why we need the Sacraments administered by priests ordained by an unbroken chain of authority extending from Peter to Pope Francis. These Sacraments, coupled with our complete conversion to Christ, will ultimately redeem us. Right, Evangelical Christians who rely on the Bible, the same ones used by the Catholics, and who are in complete agreement with one another? Right?
Teancum Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Romans 5:20-21 teaches that the commandments were givens to us to show the extent of are failure to obey God's laws and see God Grace stepping in.So God set it up so his creation would fail. Seems like a bit of a warped personality trait.
Canadaigua Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 Which is why we need the Sacraments administered by priests ordained by an unbroken chain of authority extending from Peter to Pope Francis. These Sacraments, coupled with our complete conversion to Christ, will ultimately redeem us. Right, Evangelical Christians who rely on the Bible, the same ones used by the Catholics, and who are in complete agreement with one another? Right?"Romans 5:20-21 teaches that the commandments were givens to us to show the extent of are failure to obey God's laws and see God Grace stepping in."We are in agreement.Contrast this to Mormonism which requires complete obedience to the commandments, coupled with the fact Mormons are told that they have the ability to keep all of the commandments.
Canadaigua Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 So God set it up so his creation would fail. Seems like a bit of a warped personality trait.It is not what you think God's plan should be but rather what it actual is as spelled out for us in the Bible.
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