Vance Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 my dear photon-inspector and judge of mankind, And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years. And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings. And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.(Luke 1:18-20) why did the angel have cause to rebuke Zacharias, who was blameless with regard to the righteousness of the law? You are implying that he broke a commandment. Which commandment did he brake? And please provide a reference.
Vance Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Did you write this editorial: http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-am-but-a-vessel-through-which-god-drones-on-inde,11199/ It sure sounds like him.
Flyonthewall Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) in your zeal to condemn me, you ignored my question, and Paul's rhetoric. he says it a second time; i'll ask you again: For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come?(Romans 3:7- why did people in the first century accuse Paul of preaching a "do nothing" gospel? if you are not accused of using God's grace as an excuse to sin, are you preaching the true gospel? of course the accusation is a lie, but why did the accusation exist and carry enough weight that some people, without full understanding, would think this is the case? This passage does not indicate an accusation towards Paul, but simply Paul teaching the church, that they are no more special than the gentiles. The Jews could claim they are "chosen" because they have the Law of Moses, but that law means nothing if you do not obey it. As a matter of fact, just prior to this in Chapter 2, he says this: 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.Even Paul states that you cannot do nothing. Perhaps you should read Romans again and get the context of what Paul is really teaching. Edited January 16, 2015 by Flyonthewall 1
Flyonthewall Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 He has little need for servants who think they are equal or better than their masters. Being a profitable servant is different that thinking they are equal to or better than their masters For three things the earth is disquieted, and for four which it cannot bear: For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat; For an odious woman when she is married; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress.(Proverbs 30:21-23) you're not answering my question. what grace is it that Paul presents that he would say "what then, are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace?" do you believe Paul has the true gospel of Christ? why does this accusation even come up? do you teach this same grace that makes people ask "why then obey any commandment?"I have answered your question. Paul does not say we are without law, but we are under the law of faith. Faith does not mean "do nothing" - it means put your belief into practice. 3
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) This passage does not indicate an accusation towards Paulspelled out more clearly here for you: For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come?(Romans 3:7- here Paul repeats the accusation, specifically calling it a slanderous accusation. what kind of grace is Paul preaching that would cause some to slanderously accuse him of preaching a "do-nothing gospel" ? of course it is not true that we are called to disobedience. but what is it about the true gospel of Christ that causes the world to accuse the believers of saying such things? Edited January 16, 2015 by intra
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Even Paul states that you cannot do nothing. what do you make of this? But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.(Romans 4:5) it is not of course the apostle encouraging us not to work (i.e. "do nothing") -- but do you reckon this truth has something to do with the "slanderous accusation" ? do you believe that God justifies the ungodly, even the one who does no work, but believes in His mercy? does Paul lie? does Romans contain the true gospel?
Mars Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 every single one of your questions, intra, is akin to "have you stopped beating your wife, yet?"
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Perhaps you should read Romans again and get the context of what Paul is really teaching.And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.(Romans 11:6) fair synopsis?
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 every single one of your questions, intra, is akin to "have you stopped beating your wife, yet?"are you without sin yet?
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 You are implying that he broke a commandment. Which commandment did he brake? And please provide a reference.i am asking you how it is that a man who did not break a commandment was still not found to be perfect by the angel that ministered to him. is the righteousness of laws and commandments the only one you know? why so difficult to understand such a clear question? dear bright-bulb, why are you still full of confusion? who wrote confusion in you? why did Paul count being blameless with regard to the righteousness of the law as a loss with regard to Christ?
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 The Law of Moses couldn't bring perfection. Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? good, now work this into your thinking: if keeping every commandment cannot make you perfect - what is lacking? who then can be saved? how? are we saved from "a burden which neither we not our fathers could bear" unto a greater burden? did Christ truly set the captives free or did He transfer them from one cage to another?
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 izzackly.non-answer. are you sinless? are you worthy? or do you still metaphorically 'beat your wife' ?
Vance Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 i am asking you how it is that a man who did not break a commandment was still not found to be perfect by the angel that ministered to him. So, you can't identify a single commandment that was broken. Good to know. Why do you think an angel giving you a sign means that you have sinned?
Vance Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 good, now work this into your thinking: if keeping every commandment cannot make you perfect - what is lacking? You are not grasping the concept at all. Jesus was perfectly obedient, did that not make him perfect? Jesus was obedient to be baptized, was baptism part of the law of Moses? 1
Vance Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 did Christ truly set the captives free or did He transfer them from one cage to another? Christ set us free by giving us repentance from and forgiveness of sins, a way to become free from past sins and become perfectly obedient, like him. Acts 5:31 Him (Jesus) hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) So, you can't identify a single commandment that was broken. Good to know. Why do you think an angel giving you a sign means that you have sinned?is there something about being struck dumb "because you did not believe my words" that indicates to you Zachariah was found to be perfect in his eyes? oh brightest of bulbs, whose light cannot be comprehended by mortals, you say you know that the law cannot make you perfect, why do you think imperfection is necessarily a breaking of a commandment? You are not grasping the concept at all. Jesus was perfectly obedient, did that not make him perfect? Jesus was obedient to be baptized, was baptism part of the law of Moses? is it your belief that Jesus is perfect because He kept the law? is that all He is to you? an example of obedience that you know you cannot match? is that some sort of salvation in your bright, bright mind? Christ set us free by giving us repentance from and forgiveness of sins, a way to become free from past sins and become perfectly obedient, like him. Acts 5:31 Him (Jesus) hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.Christ elevated the law - He said to hate is as to murder. if the law of Moses was "a burden that neither we nor our fathers could bear" is salvation come to the earth in the form of an even stricter law? is "salvation" to the brightest of bulbs nothing more than the chance to be judged by an harsher law than that one that by which no flesh was justified and no one could be made perfect? i am dim, great and exalted luminary. would that you would shine on me, but i see shadows cast. Edited January 16, 2015 by intra
Flyonthewall Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) spelled out more clearly here for you: For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say, (Romans 3:7- here Paul repeats the accusation, specifically calling it a slanderous accusation. what kind of grace is Paul preaching that would cause some to slanderously accuse him of preaching a "do-nothing gospel" ? of course it is not true that we are called to disobedience. but what is it about the true gospel of Christ that causes the world to accuse the believers of saying such things?Again, when you can figure out what Paul is teaching, you can answer your own question. It is very plain, but you do have to read for comprehension Edited January 16, 2015 by Flyonthewall
Flyonthewall Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 what do you make of this? But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.(Romans 4:5) it is not of course the apostle encouraging us not to work (i.e. "do nothing") -- but do you reckon this truth has something to do with the "slanderous accusation" ? do you believe that God justifies the ungodly, even the one who does no work, but believes in His mercy? does Paul lie? does Romans contain the true gospel?Read Romans for comprehension and you will find out what he is saying.
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 read for comprehensionread for comprehension, yes. please explain:* Paul specifically says some have slanderously accused him of preaching a "do nothing" gospel* you say "this passage does not indicate an accusation against Paul" once you have that bit of dissonance worked out, hopefully we can get back to the question i asked you 4 or 5 pages ago -- what kind of grace is he preaching that would cause such an accusation to arise? are you preaching the same grace? if you are not (wrongly) accused of this sort of thing, are you presenting the true gospel?
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Read Romans for comprehension and you will find out what he is saying.how about you address my post instead of just pointing vacantly in some indistinct direction as though something, not clear what or if anything at all, might be over in some area over there?
Flyonthewall Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 And if by grace, then no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.(Romans 11:6) fair synopsis?The words are true. Your interpretation of them is not. When read for comprehension, the meaning is clear.
intra Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Lol intraNope. Headed to hell.you still beating your wife?
Flyonthewall Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 how about you address my post instead of just pointing vacantly in some indistinct direction as though something, not clear what or if anything at all, might be over in some area over there?I have pointed you to Romans, the very book you are citing. That is not a general direction, that is very specific. Take in what Paul is teaching and it will be clear. You make a good faith effort and we will go from there
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