Vance Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Answer my question first. (Since I asked it first.) Let me sum up your position 1. A person can't obey all of the commandments ever. Which one of the commandments is impossible to obey?Still waiting for an answer.
Flyonthewall Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Still waiting for an answer.Or a scaled down question: "Can anyone obey any commandment ever?"
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 And what would change in your opinion if we did have the original manuscripts?Give them to us and then we will show you. We already know somethings were added.
Vance Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 See Matthew 5:2828 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Are you saying that it is impossible to look at a woman WITHOUT lusting after her?
intra Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 man can't even understand how far short of holiness he is, let alone work himself into attaining it. Who can understand his errors?cleanse thou me from secret faults.Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins;let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright,and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.(Psalm 19:12-13) we must be cleaned not only of the sin we understand is sin, but from all our iniquity we have in ignorance. who is a god like Him, forgiving sin and passing over transgressions of His remnant, and justifying the ungodly?!
intra Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I will go in the strength of the Lord God:I will make mention of thy righteousness, even of thine only.Thy righteousness also, O God, is very high, who hast done great things:O God, who is like unto thee!(Psalm 71:16, 19) except that Christ become the life in me, that does the work, i cannot keep even one command!
Flyonthewall Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I will go in the strength of the Lord God: I will make mention of thy righteousness, even of thine only. Thy righteousness also, O God, is very high, who hast done great things: O God, who is like unto thee! (Psalm 71:16, 19) except that Christ become the life in me, that does the work, i cannot keep even one command!16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? If you cannot obey the Lord, whose servant are you?
intra Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 If you cannot obey the Lord, whose servant are you? there's something you don't see. here, let me help you: except that Christ become the life in me
intra Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?If you cannot obey the Lord, whose servant are you?yes and amen, to whom ye yield yourselves!
intra Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 i do realize this post is from back in Sept. sorry i'm late to the party. It goes hand in hand with the "do nothing" gospel being preached - I can't obey all commandments so I don't even have to try. Jesus does it all for me.if you're not accused of using the grace of God as an occasion to sin, are you presenting the true gospel? For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! (Romans 6:14-15) why do you think Paul presents the accusation that we would use God's grace as an opportunity for the flesh? why do you think he says this as though it would be a common logical objection to the gospel - the one true gospel of Jesus Christ - that he is preaching?
intra Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Your God has set up a no win situation. this is not so. Jesus is the win, and victory belongs to the Lord. He is the word of God made flesh, spoken to show us His mercy. for a "church of Jesus Christ" i am puzzled that you think of Him so infrequently! it is no wonder the world knows you as "lds" and not "coJC" ! Why would a God give commandments his creation could noy obey? Personally I don't think humans will obey all the rules but it seems like they could. try phrasing it this way: why would God create the universe such that it is clear a man cannot be sinless without depending on His mercy? that cannot be worthy of Him except by His grace?
intra Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 So, you reject these scriptures then. Matt. 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. Not very "Christian" of you to reject the teachings of Jesus like that.Vance, i think you might have a reading comprehension problem too. are all things possible for man, or are all things possible for God? do you recall the example that the Almighty put forth in the flesh, what the Word of the Lord was about exactly how Jesus kept perfectly every commandment of God? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.(John 14:10) are you familiar with what Christ's actual apostles taught about how obedience is wrought in those that believe? Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.(Philippians 2:12-13)
intra Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Still waiting for an answer.why do you think your question matters? have you kept every command of God perfectly every moment of your few, short years? For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.(James 2:10) which of you have been sinless from birth? who knew the righteousness of God before it was taught? which one of you created yourself and gave yourself life that you could turn to the left or to the right or raise your head out of the dust? does the scripture say man can direct his own steps to walk without blame? O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.(Jeremiah 10:23-24) does the scripture say that power belongs to man? Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.(Psalm 62:9-12)if righteousness belongs to God, and wisdom belongs to God, and power belongs to God, who is this axehead that raises himself up and chops wood, while no one wields it?
Robert F. Smith Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 .............................................. .......................... I have asked LDS if they believe that they have the ability to keep all of the commandments and most have said that they do have this ability. Are there any LDS that believe that they don't have the ability to keep the commandments?Only one person on this Earth was ever able to keep the commandments, and all others have fallen short. God knew it would be that way, which is why He sent His Son to redeem us from our just desserts. Take a poll of the members of this board to see who actually thinks he is able to keep all the commandments. I'd like to meet that peerless popinjay. It would also be interesting to know whether you believe that we can be perfect in this life.. Tell me true, Canadaigua: Are you able to keep all the commandments? All 613 of them? That's how many Judaism has counted. Maybe there are more.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 ............................................... .....................................Jesus Christ" i am puzzled that you think of Him so infrequently! it is no wonder the world knows you as "lds" and not "coJC" !..................................................................... False, intra. The world knows us as "Mormons." It is quite natural for people not to want to say a mouthful of words and so they are always abbreviating. You knew that when you began to dissemble. No respectable anti-Mormon should need to stack the cards Bearing false witness on behalf of God? Doe He really need it? Come to an "LDS" service sometime just to see how "infrequently" Jesus Christ gets mentioned. Keep an actual tab. Then come back and tell us how wrong you were. You'll be embarrassed, intra. 1
Canadaigua Posted January 15, 2015 Author Posted January 15, 2015 Or a scaled down question: "Can anyone obey any commandment ever?"I would even venture to say that we are unlikely to even obey a single commandment. But let's say that you can obey a single commandment. Where do you stand according to God? James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
why me Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) 1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I awill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall cprepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. The verse above from 1 Nephi 3:7 is a popular verse in the Book of Mormon and is often quoted by LDS. This verse teaches that man has the ability to keep the commandments. I have asked LDS if they believe that they have the ability to keep all of the commandments and most have said that they do have this ability. Are there any LDS that believe that they don't have the ability to keep the commandments?No, of course not. No one is perfect. So, all will make mistakes. Perhaps it is a play on words. However, people should try to keep the commandments knowing full well that they will fail. However, if one is weak in one area they can overcome it if they so wish. But sinning is as much a part of human nature as love is...such is what happened after the fall. And then of course there is repentance which washes away the sin and creates the perfection that will be broken again. Edited January 15, 2015 by why me
Canadaigua Posted January 15, 2015 Author Posted January 15, 2015 Only one person on this Earth was ever able to keep the commandments, and all others have fallen short. . ." Robert I agree with you and this is certainly supported by the Bible. John 7:19 Has not Moses given you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. Why do you seek to kill me?”
Canadaigua Posted January 15, 2015 Author Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) No, of course not. No one is perfect. So, all will make mistakes. Perhaps it is a play on words. However, people should try to keep the commandments knowing full well that they will fail. However, if one is weak in one area they can overcome it if they so wish. But sinning is as much a part of human nature as love is...such is what happened after the fall.I agree with you that we all sin and fall short AND despite this we should still strive to obey the commandments. However there are many quotes from LDS leaders that teach that perfection is an achievable goal and that God doesn't give anyone a commandment that he cannot keep if he really does his best. So if one were to really do his best he would keep the commandments. This is completely different than Christians believe in this area--it is more consistent with your position. Edited January 15, 2015 by Canadaigua
Robert F. Smith Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 ........................................................ perfection is an achievable goal ................................................................There are a great many things which are theoretically possible, but we all know that perfection is not achievable on this side of the veil.
Flyonthewall Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 there's something you don't see. here, let me help you: except that Christ become the life in meI did not miss it. If YOU do not obey a single commandment, if YOU will not even try, Christ will be no part of you. What would make you any different than the devils? Christ is not a puppeteer. You have to put forth your own effort. Again. Ye obey whom ye serve. If YOU will not obey a single commandment, whom do ye serve?
Flyonthewall Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 i do realize this post is from back in Sept. sorry i'm late to the party. if you're not accused of using the grace of God as an occasion to sin, are you presenting the true gospel? For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! (Romans 6:14-15) why do you think Paul presents the accusation that we would use God's grace as an opportunity for the flesh? why do you think he says this as though it would be a common logical objection to the gospel - the one true gospel of Jesus Christ - that he is preaching? He is preaching against the "do nothing gospel" put forth by some - I cannot keep the commandments so I will do nothing and wait for Jesus to do it for me. Jesus does not want do-nothing unprofitable servants. He wants profitable servants as illustrated in the parable of the talents. The two that were given talents, then using their own efforts increased them, were rewarded. The one that did nothing, and waited for his master had his taken from him. 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 1
Flyonthewall Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I would even venture to say that we are unlikely to even obey a single commandment. But let's say that you can obey a single commandment. Where do you stand according to God? James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.I will repeat a question back to you... and Intra.... Which commandment can you not obey? or better yet...which commandment will you not even try to obey? Edited January 15, 2015 by Flyonthewall
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