Does Man Have The Ability To Obey All Of The Commandments?

[Mars]

You're really having fun with this, aren't you, intra?

[thesometimesaint]

why is keeping every commandment perfectly not enough to inherit eternal life? 

what did this man lack? 

can you answer these questions? 

 

As the Book of Mormon in Mosiah 2:20-24 says:

 20 I say unto you, my brethren, that if you should render all the thanks and praise which your whole soul has power to possess, to that God who has created you, and has kept and preserved you, and has caused that ye should rejoice, and has granted that ye should live in peace one with another—

 21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.

 22 And behold, all that he requires of you is to keep his commandments; and he has promised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land; and he never doth vary from that which he hath said; therefore, if ye do keep his commandments he doth bless you and prosper you.

 23 And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him.

 24 And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast?

[Mars]

Yes, I believe any person who wants forgiveness has to choose it.  Call it works, call it effort, call it active demonstration of choice, what have you.

 

You can't earn it.

 

You didn't deserve it.

 

But without that effort/work/demonstration/whatever, you won't want God's grace. 

 

What happens to a guy who is saved in the faith tradition you esteem to be correct, and then turns away from belief in Jesus?  Is the saving still in effect, intra?

[intra]

i already answered those questions, intra

no, you didn't. 

you called this man a liar who said "all these i have kept since my youth"  -- you didn't explain how keeping all the commandments was not enough to inherit eternal life. 

you said he was unwilling to follow Christ, but then why did he come to Christ and seek eternal life from him? why did he go away sad because of his great possessions if he rejected Christ's command? 

 

[Mars]

no, you didn't. 

you called this man a liar who said "all these i have kept since my youth"  -- you didn't explain how keeping all the commandments was not enough to inherit eternal life. 

you said he was unwilling to follow Christ, but then why did he come to Christ and seek eternal life from him? why did he go away sad because of his great possessions if he rejected Christ's command? 

 

 

lol

 

What?

 

lol

 

nevermind, intra...  you can have this one...  I'm out

[intra]

As the Book of Mormon in Mosiah 2:20-24 says:

 20 I say unto you, my brethren, that if you should render all the thanks and praise which your whole soul has power to possess, to that God who has created you, and has kept and preserved you, and has caused that ye should rejoice, and has granted that ye should live in peace one with another—

 21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.

 22 And behold, all that he requires of you is to keep his commandments; and he has promised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land; and he never doth vary from that which he hath said; therefore, if ye do keep his commandments he doth bless you and prosper you.

 23 And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him.

 24 And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast?

this does not say why keeping every command of God is not enough to make you perfect. 

[intra]

lol

 

What?

 

i asked you why keeping every commandment is not enough to inherit eternal life. 

the 'rich young ruler' testified that he kept all these commands since his youth. 

your answer was "it is impossible" to keep all the commandments.

that is tantamount to saying that a man (like this fellow) who says he has kept all the commandments is a liar.

it is also dodging the question. a non-answer. 

why isn't keeping every commandment enough to inherit eternal life? 

you said he was unwilling to follow Christ. why did he come to Christ if he was unwilling to follow Him? why did Christ's word cause him to go away sad if he did not believe Him? 

 

[Mars]

you didn't answer my question, intra

 

What happens to a guy who is saved in the faith tradition you esteem to be correct, and then turns away from belief in Jesus?  Is the saving still in effect, intra?

[intra]

you didn't answer my question, intra

 

What happens to a guy who is saved in the faith tradition you esteem to be correct, and then turns away from belief in Jesus?  Is the saving still in effect, intra?

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(John 3:18) 

what is it that keeping the law of commandments cannot achieve? 

. . . touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

(Philippians 3:6) 

why did Paul need Jesus if he was blameless with regard to the law? 

[Mars]

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(John 3:18) 

what is it that keeping the law of commandments cannot achieve? 

. . . touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

(Philippians 3:6) 

why did Paul need Jesus if he was blameless with regard to the law? 

 

non-answer.

 

you dodged the question.

 

What happens to a guy who is saved in the faith tradition you esteem to be correct, and then turns away from belief in Jesus?  Is the saving still in effect, intra?

[intra]

non-answer.

 

you dodged the question.

 

What happens to a guy who is saved in the faith tradition you esteem to be correct, and then turns away from belief in Jesus?  Is the saving still in effect, intra?

maybe the font was too small for you to see? 

he that believeth not is condemned already

have you ever read 1 John? 

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

(1 John 2:19) 

[Mars]

so the previous belief is made invalid, then?

 

it's all just about believing the right thing?

[intra]

(musical interlude) 
 

♪♪♫

The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him,

in those that hope in his mercy.
(Psalm 147:11) 

♫♫

selah

[Vance]

 

if you could keep every commandment all of your life, would it be enough to inherit eternal life? 

 

Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him,

“Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”

(Matthew 10:17) 

 

And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”

(Matthew 10:20-21) 

if this man had kept every commandment since his youth, why did he need to ask what he should do to inherit eternal life? 

did he already have eternal life? no. is eternal life his birthright? no. did he earn it by keeping every commandment? no. 

why did Christ tell him that he still lacked something? 

 

For the dim of bulb let's add some context.

 

Matt 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

  18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

  19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

  20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

  21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

 

OOPS! the dim bulb got the reference wrong.

 

Matt 19:16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

  17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

As show below, "the commandments" refers to THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

 

  18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

  19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

  20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

 

So, the real question is "Are THE TEN COMMANDMENTS enough?"  Apparently not.

 

  21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

  22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

 

So, the higher commandment to love God and your neighbor were still lacking with this young man, for he loved his wealth more than either.  BUT he was fully obedient to THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

 

Plus you continue to reject this portion of the Bible.

Luke 1:5 ¶ THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

  6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

So, dim bulb, how could this verse be true if the verses you keep throwing out are also true?  Could it be that repentance brings forgiveness and with obedience to the commandments comes the imputation of righteousness?  Thus being saved FROM our sins, rather than being saved in our sins.

 

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

  8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

  9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

  10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Vance

[Vance]

maybe the font was too small for you to see? 

he that believeth not is condemned already

 

And yet,

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

  20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

  21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

  22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

  23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

  24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

  25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

  26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[Vance]

Answer my question first. (Since I asked it first.)

 

Let me sum up your position

 

1. A person can't obey all of the commandments ever.

 

Which one of the commandments is impossible to obey?

Still waiting for an answer.

[intra]

 

For the dim of bulb let's add some context.

 

Matt 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

  18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

  19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

  20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

  21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

 

OOPS! the dim bulb got the reference wrong.

 

Matt 19:16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

  17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

oh great judge of men, i fixed my typo. thanks. 

it's in Mark ch. 10, not Matthew 10 -- and not Matthew 19 either. 

oh god among men, holder of the one true gospel, maybe you should fix yours too? 

Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein: and he that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him.

(Proverbs 26:27) 

amen! the word of God is pure and all His judgments are righteous.  

[intra]

 

Luke 1:5 ¶ THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

  6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

 

my dear photon-inspector and judge of mankind, 

And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years. And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings. And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

(Luke 1:18-20) 

why did the angel have cause to rebuke Zacharias, who was blameless with regard to the righteousness of the law? 

If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 

(Philippians 3:4-7) 

why does a Hebrew of the Hebrews, zealous of the testimony, blameless with regard to the righteousness of the law, have need of a Savior? 

 

[Robert F. Smith]

.................................................................  

And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years. And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings. And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

(Luke 1:18-20) 

why did the angel have cause to rebuke Zacharias, who was blameless with regard to the righteousness of the law? 

If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 

(Philippians 3:4-7) 

why does a Hebrew of the Hebrews, zealous of the testimony, blameless with regard to the righteousness of the law, have need of a Savior? 

 

Bravo, Brother intra!!

You have fought the good fight and prevailed here

The problem with some of your interlocutors here is that they don't understand the difference between hyperbole and reality.

Keep stirring things up:  That's the only way we will learn anything.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[Ahab]

Let's not neglect to mention that "repent!" is a commandment of God, and that by obeying that one while instead doing what we should be doing we can if not already have been forgiven for all of our sins.

[Vance]

why did the angel have cause to rebuke Zacharias, who was blameless with regard to the righteousness of the law?

So, your are claiming the Bible is in error.

 

Got it.

 

why does a Hebrew of the Hebrews, zealous of the testimony, blameless with regard to the righteousness of the law, have need of a Savior?

Duh!

 

The Law of Moses couldn't bring perfection. 

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

 

[Vance]

it's in Mark ch. 10, not Matthew 10 -- and not Matthew 19 either. 

 

Apparently you haven't read Matt 19.

[intra]

 

So, your are claiming the Bible is in error.

 

not at all, oh bright one. 

when you are finished spilling curses from your mouth, and ready to read with comprehension, perhaps you stoop from your exalted throne down to earth here and answer to this poor and unworthy mere mortal soul, why it is that a man who was blameless with regard to the righteousness of the law still had occasion to be rebuked and chastened by the angel? 
it is not a hard question, in fact the passage i quoted to you gives a plain answer. 

thanks. 


 

Apparently you haven't read Matt 19.

read a little closer -- which one did i quote? 

let me know when you are done condemning and accusing and ignoring the scriptures and questions at hand, and ready to talk about some meat. kk? 

**hugs** 
 

[intra]

Bravo, Brother intra!!

You have fought the good fight and prevailed here

The problem with some of your interlocutors here is that they don't understand the difference between hyperbole and reality.

Keep stirring things up:  That's the only way we will learn anything.

that is very kind of you to say, but victory belongs to God. 

if His will is done through me, it is because He works in me. if His words and doctrines are spoken by me, it's because He put them in my mouth. 

 

quite literally, i have no cause to glory except that God has shown me mercy through His Christ. 

see how that i also answer fools and become entangled in their foolishness? no praise befits me. 

[The Nehor]

that is very kind of you to say, but victory belongs to God. 

if His will is done through me, it is because He works in me. if His words and doctrines are spoken by me, it's because He put them in my mouth. 

 

quite literally, i have no cause to glory except that God has shown me mercy through His Christ. 

see how that i also answer fools and become entangled in their foolishness? no praise befits me. 

Did you write this editorial: http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-am-but-a-vessel-through-which-god-drones-on-inde,11199/

You are like an old whack-a-mole game. you keep showing up and I keep wanting to bash in your skull.