Canadaigua Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 So, you reject these scriptures then. Matt. 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. Not very "Christian" of you to reject the teachings of Jesus like that.I take it by your post that you believe that you have the ability to obey all of the commandments. Is that correct?
Canadaigua Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 since he is the "Lawgiver", he commands us and tells us that one can only enter the "kingdom of heaven". Paul warns that if we do not obey many commands that we cannot into into the Kingdom of God. If you need the Biblical scripture for just these two examples...let me know.How about an answer to my question.Do you believe that God gives you commandments that you are unable to keep?
Mars Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 "Romans 5:20-21 teaches that the commandments were givens to us to show the extent of are failure to obey God's laws and see God Grace stepping in."Herp We are in agreement.Contrast this to Mormonism which requires complete obedience to the commandments, coupled with the fact Mormons are told that they have the ability to keep all of the commandments.You misrepresent the Mormon position. 1
pogi Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Every honest EV knows that he is completely incapable of keeping the commandments (even though he may strive to do so). LDS believe that every commandment that God gives us can be kept. Therefore a person has the ability to keep all of the commandments. Those dishonest fools, thinking that God would provide a way to overcome temptation (1 Corinthians 10:13)! Those of little faith, thinking that all things are possible to those who believe (Mark 9:23, Philippians 4:13, Matt 17:20, Isaiah 41:10)! Here are a couple of those Christians who are either dishonest or who don't know how to read, because the bible is clear that you are obviously right! “Faith makes all things possible… love makes all things easy.” ~ D.L. Moody “Faith, mighty faith, the promise sees, And looks to God alone; Laughs at impossibilities, And cries it shall be done.” ~ Charles Wesley. Do you believe that God would command without expectation? Do you know what the word "command' means? If God commands, who am I to say "it is impossible"? All things are possible according to Canadaigua, except when God COMMANDS you to do something. "Sorry God, that is impossible! Actually no, I'm not sorry, because it is impossible, so really your command is stupid because you know that I can't do it! How silly of you to command me to do the impossible! If you would just ask me nicely God, not in the form of a command, then I can do anything that you ask me as long as you don't expect me to do it, only then can I do it through faith." Edited January 6, 2015 by pogi
Canadaigua Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 Those dishonest fools, thinking that God would provide a way to overcome temptation (1 Corinthians 10:13)! Those of little faith, thinking that all things are possible to those who believe (Mark 9:23, Philippians 4:13, Matt 17:20, Isaiah 41:10)! Here are a couple of those Christians who are either dishonest or who don't know how to read, because the bible is clear that you are obviously right! “Faith makes all things possible… love makes all things easy.” ~ D.L. Moody “Faith, mighty faith, the promise sees, And looks to God alone; Laughs at impossibilities, And cries it shall be done.” ~ Charles Wesley. Do you believe that God would command without expectation? Do you know what the word "command' means? If God commands, who am I to say "it is impossible"? All things are possible according to Canadaigua, except when God COMMANDS you to do something. "Sorry God, that is impossible! Actually no, I'm not sorry, because it is impossible, so really your command is stupid because you know that I can't do it! How silly of you to command me to do the impossible! If you would just ask me nicely God, not in the form of a command, then I can do anything that you ask me as long as you don't expect me to do it, only then can I do it through faith."And despite the quotes Christians believe--and the Bible affirms--that man is incapable of keeping the commandments, even the Christians that you quoted.I can only surmise that your position is that you are capable of obeying all of the commandments. Is that correct?
pogi Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) And despite the quotes Christians believe--and the Bible affirms--that man is incapable of keeping the commandments, even the Christians that you quoted.I can only surmise that your position is that you are capable of obeying all of the commandments. Is that correct?My position is outlined in those scriptures I mentioned. God will not cause us to be tempted above that which we are able to bear and will prepare a way to overcome temptation, and that all things are possible to those who believe. Do you doubt these passages in the bible? I can only surmise that your position is that not all things are possible through faith, and therefore the bible lies, and that to attempt to obey God in all things is foolishness. Is that correct? I don't know who would be more foolish in that scenario - us for trying to obey God's command, or God for "commanding" but not really meaning it because it's impossible? CFR that the bible says that we can't keep the commandments. Edited January 7, 2015 by pogi
Guest Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Let's look at your post again and see what you said Canadaaigua1. It is impossible for man to keep the commandments in this life FlyonthewallFalse. It is nigh impossible to keep all commandments 100% of the time, but Jesus did show us it could be done.Can we obey all the commandments? - sure, not perfectly, but we can obey them all. When we fall short, God in His infinite mercy has provided a way that it can be accounted to us as perfect - repentance, and the Atonement. God magnifies our efforts as long as we are striving to obey. Canadaigua2. You must keep the commandments before being exalted3. Therefore obedience to the commandments can only take place after death FlyonthewallFalse.Your conclusion is somewhat convoluted - we are expected to obey the commandments in this life and if we never even try, then in no way can we expect exaltation. Obedience to the commandments can and should take place in this life as best as we can. When asked if we can obey all of the commandments you said-- "sure, not perfectly" When asked about obedience to all of the commandments in this life verses after we die you said-- "Obedience to the commandments can and should take place in this life as best as we can." As I said before it appears that you agree with these three points.1. It is impossible for man to keep the commandments in this life2. You must keep the commandments before being exalted3. Therefore obedience to the commandments can only take place after deathI know another who has been here and banned many times....she has an Mo, typing in read and bold type. I have never known another to do the same.
Canadaigua Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 My position is outlined in those scriptures I mentioned. God will not cause us to be tempted above that which we are able to bear and will prepare a way to overcome temptation, and that all things are possible to those who believe. 1 Nephi 3:7 7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. And your position is supported by the verse in 1 Nephi 3:7 which says that you have the ability to keep the commandments. And if you have the ability to keep the commandments then the "best that you can do" is to keep the commandments--anything short of this simply proves that you are not "doing the best that you can do". Do you believe that the LDS gods will grant you forgiveness of sins despite the fact that you are willfully disobeying the commandments?
Canadaigua Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 CFR that the bible says that we can't keep the commandments. Holy Catholic in post 151 already gave you one"Romans 5: 20 says the law was given to show the extent of how we can't keep the law" Here are a couple moreRomans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Flyonthewall Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Romans 5:20-21 teaches that the commandments were givens to us to show the extent of are failure to obey God's laws and see God Grace stepping in.Sounds like you believe He likes to rub our noses in our failures...? We believe He gives us commandments with the expectation of obedience. Obedience to the commandments helps make us better people. All that the Lord hath said will we do:Ex. 24:7; Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it:Deut. 6:1–3; Love the Lord and obey his voice:Deut. 30:20; To obey is better than sacrifice:1 Sam. 15:22; Fear God, and keep his commandments:Eccl. 12:13–14; Not every one shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of the Father:Matt. 7:21; ( 3 Ne. 14:21; ) If any man will do his will, he shall know if the doctrine is of God:John 7:17; We ought to obey God rather than men:Acts 5:29; I must have missed the scriptures that say obedience is optional - all we need to do is wait for grace.
pogi Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 1 Nephi 3:7 7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. And your position is supported by the verse in 1 Nephi 3:7 which says that you have the ability to keep the commandments. And if you have the ability to keep the commandments then the "best that you can do" is to keep the commandments--anything short of this simply proves that you are not "doing the best that you can do". Do you believe that the LDS gods will grant you forgiveness of sins despite the fact that you are willfully disobeying the commandments? Answer my question first. I can only surmise that your position is that not all things are possible through faith, and therefore the bible lies, and that to attempt to obey God in all things is foolishness. Is that correct? I don't know who would be more foolish in that scenario - us for trying to obey God's command, or God for "commanding" but not really meaning it because it's impossible? 1
pogi Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Holy Catholic in post 151 already gave you one"Romans 5: 20 says the law was given to show the extent of how we can't keep the law" Here are a couple moreRomans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If you are going to use quotations, I expect you to actually quote the scripture and not twist and contort it to fit your false beliefs. You are deceptive in your words and manipulation of the bible. Here is the passage from Rom 5:20:Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more aboundWhere does it say that it is impossible to obey? Sure we all fall because of the law, but we overcome and become perfected in Him as grace abounds "much more". None of those passages state it is "impossible" to obey all of the commandments, they simply say that we have all sinned. Again, provide me with a CFR. Again I ask, do you doubt the bible that states that ALL things are possible to those who believe? Why can't you obey the commandments canada? Who is preventing you? What is keeping you from obeying the commandments at this moment? What about the next moment, and the moment after that? At any present moment, we can choose to obey. If you think you cannot chose, then you don't understand agency. Is it not your lack of faith in God and the bible which states that all things are possible and that God will not allow you to be tempted above that you are able to bear that keeps you from obeying your master? Edited January 7, 2015 by pogi 1
Teancum Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 It is not what you think God's plan should be but rather what it actual is as spelled out for us in the Bible.It is not what you think God's plan should be but rather what it actual is as spelled out for us in the Bible.Why should I trust the Bible? Who says it is Gods ultimate authority to us? More so why should I trust your fundamental reformed Protestant interpretation of the Bible?
Vance Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I guess you reject this part of the Bible. Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.Crickets chirping in the background. 1
Canadaigua Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 If you are going to use quotations, I expect you to actually quote the scripture and not twist and contort it to fit your false beliefs. You are deceptive in your words and manipulation of the bible. Here is my post that you quoted Holy Catholic in post 151 already gave you one"Romans 5: 20 says the law was given to show the extent of how we can't keep the law" Here are a couple moreRomans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. I am not sure what you are talking about when you said that I was being deceptive. I quoted two verses directly from the Bible and quoted Holy Catholic's post and gave you the post number that I quoted. Can you tell me exactly why you think that this was deceptive? 1
Canadaigua Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Crickets chirping in the background.Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If ALL have sinned would that exclude those in Luke 1:6? BTW since this about LDS and their ability to keep ALL of the commandments I take it that you believe that you have the ability to do so. Is that correct? Edited January 10, 2015 by Canadaigua 1
Canadaigua Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 Here is the passage from Rom 5:20: Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound Where does it say that it is impossible to obey? Sure we all fall because of the law, but we overcome and become perfected in Him as grace abounds "much more". None of those passages state it is "impossible" to obey all of the commandments, they simply say that we have all sinned. Again, provide me with a CFR. 1. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If you sin then you don't obey the commandments. 2. You said "become perfected in Him as grace abounds "much more".This is an excellent example of how Christians and Mormons use the same terms but define the words differently. In Rom 5:20: Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. Man is incapable of obeying the commandments. The more commandments given the more man fails. Thus when the law entered the offense might abound. Can you tell me what you mean exactly when you said "become perfected in Him as grace abounds "much more"?
Canadaigua Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 More so why should I trust your fundamental reformed Protestant interpretation of the Bible?We have an English translation of the Bible from the original languages. Words have meaning with standard dictionary definitions. How could I possibly understand what you are writing because according to you there are multiple possible interpretations for what you have written. What you have said can mean different things to different people. Right?
Vance Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If ALL have sinned would that exclude those in Luke 1:6?You know you really are thick headed. Yes, all except Christ have sinned, and NO ONE has claimed otherwise, BUT that doesn't mean that we can't repent (you know, go from disobedience to obedience) of all our sins, and thus become FULLY obedient. DUH!!!! BTW since this about LDS and their ability to keep ALL of the commandments I take it that you believe that you have the ability to do so. Is that correct? If those in Luke 1:6 can do it so can we. Have you not been paying attention? It isn't about not having ever sinned, it is about repenting of the sins you have committed and not committing any new ones. You really don't know your scriptures. Isa 1:16 ¶ Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: D&C 58:42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more. 43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them. Do you even know what the word "forsake" means? Since you believe that it isn't possible for a person to become fully obedient, which one of the commandments is impossible to obey? Edited to add,1 Jn 1: 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.. . . 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Edited January 10, 2015 by Vance
Canadaigua Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 You know you really are thick headed. Yes, all except Christ have sinned, but that doesn't mean that we can't repent (you know, go from disobedience to obedience) of all our sins, and thus become FULLY obedient. DUH!!!! 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we ALL sin then we do not have to ability to keep the commandments. According to Mormonism one of the steps of repentance is forsaking your sin. Would you say that you or other LDS do not need to repent anymore and thus able to say that "you do not have any sin". 1
Canadaigua Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 Have you not been paying attention? It isn't about not having ever sinned, it is about repenting of the sins you have committed and not committing any new ones. Let me sum up your position 1. A person can commit a sin but can repent.2. An important step in repentance is forsaking all sins and never repeating those sins3. Man has the ability to obey all of the commandments 4. At this point repentance is no longer necessary Is that a fair assessment of what you believe?
Teancum Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 We have an English translation of the Bible from the original languages. Words have meaning with standard dictionary definitions. How could I possibly understand what you are writing because according to you there are multiple possible interpretations for what you have written. What you have said can mean different things to different people. Right?Give me the originals manuscripts and then we can talk. Apparently God did not care enough about his one and only word to us to preserve those, 1
Vance Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Let me sum up your position 1. A person can commit a sin but can repent.2. An important step in repentance is forsaking all sins and never repeating those sins3. Man has the ability to obey all of the commandments 4. At this point repentance is no longer necessary Is that a fair assessment of what you believe?Answer my question first. (Since I asked it first.) Let me sum up your position 1. A person can't obey all of the commandments ever. Which one of the commandments is impossible to obey?
JLHPROF Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Does Man Have The Ability To Obey All Of The Commandments?My Opinion1. Only Christ obeyed all the commandments in this life (but he encouraged all to keep his commandments).2. All men are to continue to work at it until they become perfect, even if it is in the next world.3. It is possible for sufficient commandments to be kept to be worthy of Christ's presence (calling & election) as opposed to not keeping them and being cast out of his presence (hell).4. No being can be any more perfect than he knows how to be and within the sphere in which he is placed. This includes Gods and Men.5. Christ's atonement makes up for any commandments we are unable to keep, but not for any commandments we are unwilling to keep.
Canadaigua Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 Give me the originals manuscripts and then we can talk. Apparently God did not care enough about his one and only word to us to preserve those,And what would change in your opinion if we did have the original manuscripts?
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