Mass Resignation

[smac97]

See here: http://fox13now.com/2014/07/24/mormon-group-plans-mass-resignation-to-protest-excommunications/

 

And here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/24/mormon-mass-resignation_n_5618311.html

 

From the first article:

 

The expectations didn’t quite match the actuality as a crowd of about 100 people gathered in City Creek Park, some to sign letters of resignation from the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and most to show support for those resigning.

The event organizers expected between 400 and 600 to attend but said they are pleased with how it went anyway.

“The purpose of this sort of event, demonstration, protest, is to give voice to the people that are marginalized within the LDS religious community,” organizer Micah Nickolaisen said.

On a park bench in the middle of the crowd, Tamara Fox sat penning her letter of resignation.

Now 33, Fox said she stopped attending about 10 years ago. She considers her resignation a statement of solidarity with women who, unlike her, want to remain in the faith while voicing support for women’s ordination.

A statement of solidarity? Resignation?

“I’m particularly excited to be here today because the reason I initially stopped participating in the church is because of issues of gender and the way that women are treated in the church,” Fox said.

Fox referred specifically to Kate Kelly, the founder of Ordain Women, who was excommunicated from the LDS Church by a disciplinary council in Virginia on June 23.

Well, Kate Kelly encouraged her followers to "raise hell" in the Church. I suppose this is an example of folks following that instruction, or trying to.

From the second article:

Nearly 500 Mormons joined a Facebook event marking their mass resignation from the LDS Church on Thursday to protest the recent excommunication of Kate Kelly and disciplining of John Dehlin, two prominent activists in the Mormon community.

Um, what? Did 500 attend, or 100? Or did 100 attend and 400 attend via Facebook?

The event's title -- "This Is Not The Place" -- indicated a growing concern among many Mormons that the LDS Church does not welcome a diverse set of values and beliefs.

Kelly, a human rights attorney and founder of Ordain Women, is a vocal advocate for women's ordination in the LDS Church. She was excommunicated for her views in late June. John Delhin, a podcaster and gay rights activist, faces excommunication as well, though his has not yet been determined.

Although her excommunication struck a chord with many Mormons, Kelly raised several concerns about the mass resignation in an interview with The Huffington Post.

Well, Kate, you created this mess. You encouraged others to "raise hell" in the Church. You own this now.

"I've been encouraging people to stay in the church and try to make things better from within," Kelly said.

To be precise, she has instructed people to "stay in the church" but "raise hell" in it. She has also encouraged people to leave the Church if they feel so inclined.

"I realize that's not possible for everyone, and they should do what they feel directed to do. But if possible, and if you feel able to, I think people should stay because some of the most effective change happens from within."

I hope Ms. Kelly is starting to feel some twinge of regret over her bombastic actions of late.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited July 24, 2014 by smac97

[MorningStar]

I'm sure a good amount of those people already resigned. 

[bluebell]

This makes no sense.
 
If you believe in the truth claims of the Mormon church, then, even if you disagree about KK's excommunication, what purpose will your resignation serve? Seriously.  I would love to see a list from these people outlining exactly what they hope to achieve for themselves and God's church thru this action.
 
If you don't believe in the truth claims of the Mormon church, then your resignation is a sham-it's a passive/aggressive move where you try to hurt an organization by pretending to be something you aren't.
 
And I really don't get this quote from KK-
 
"I've been encouraging people to stay in the church and try to make things better from within," Kelly said. "I realize that's not possible for everyone, and they should do what they feel directed to do. But if possible, and if you feel able to, I think people should stay because some of the most effective change happens from within."
 
If someone is going to stay in the church, they should do it because they have a testimony of what the church claims it is or because they are working towards having such a testimony.  Staying because you might be able to serve another organization's agenda better as a member than a nonmember seems like an odd thing for someone, who's fighting for her membership because she believes the church is what it says it is, to advocate.

[why me]

I hope Ms. Kelly is starting to feel some twinge of regret over her bombastic actions of late.

Thanks,

-Smac

I doubt it. It seems that she would prefer for these members to stay for the sake of change. But  she misses the point. Since the lds church is a revelatory church change happens through prayer and not through people raising hell from within. But it does show where her mind and heart are. She sems to have no faith in the GAs and in revelatory power.

 

The organizer of the event, Micah, has been around for a long time and her role to fame is this happening during pioneer day. This  day was a failure. Interestingly, the exmember crowd seem to be very supportive of women being ordained. There is no secret why. It would cause chaos in the lds church as organizations such a relief society would disappear etc.  However it does seem that the ex-community is full of people who seek media attention which they can get during events such as this. I always feel a sense of narcissism in all this. It seems to be all about them and not about the people involved.

 

The people who resigned mentally resigned a long time ago. It most likely had nothing to do with kate but with themselves and their own lack of faith. For example, it doesn't add up that a person would resign because of the church's stance about woman ordination if they actually believed in the truth claims of the lds church.

Edited July 24, 2014 by why me

[bluebell]

See here: http://fox13now.com/2014/07/24/mormon-group-plans-mass-resignation-to-protest-excommunications/

 

And here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/24/mormon-mass-resignation_n_5618311.html

 

From the first article:

 

A statement of solidarity? Resignation?

 

 

I think it's interesting that she chose to make a "statement of solidarity" with women who want something different than she does.   

 

Isn't that the opposite of solidarity?  

 

I also want to know how leaving an organization will increase your 'voice'?  Are they hoping that the church will pay more attention to their disagreements if they are ex-members? 

[livy111us]

I believe it was Sevenbank who works with KSL or some other news agency, and when he attended these protests he found out that most of those protesting were either not members of the Church or hadn't been active in the Church for a very long time. My bet is that most of those who resigned were, as the girl in the article was, inactive for years and already left the Church in their heart. I doubt that there were too many active, temple-recommend carrying Mormon's who resigned their membership over this.

[ERayR]

I think it's interesting that she chose to make a "statement of solidarity" with women who want something different than she does.   

 

Isn't that the opposite of solidarity?  

 

I also want to know how leaving an organization will increase your 'voice'?  Are they hoping that the church will pay more attention to their disagreements if they are ex-members? 

 

That's what happens when you suspend common sense as one poster suggested in a post on a different thread.

[rpn]

There was another such day 18 months ago or so.   About 100, and it turned out that a good many of them had already left the church earlier, but did it again for the cameras and counting.  

[jwhitlock]

You have to love phrases like "growing concern among many Mormons" in the article, designed to give the impression that there's some kind of massive groundswell of support building. Sounds pretty much like the media reporting what Kelly wants them to, without being bothered about what the real attitudes are among church members.

[readstoomuch]

This makes no sense.

If you believe in the truth claims of the Mormon church, then, even if you disagree about KK's excommunication, what purpose will your resignation serve? Seriously. I would love to see a list from these people outlining exactly what they hope to achieve for themselves and God's church thru this action.

If you don't believe in the truth claims of the Mormon church, then your resignation is a sham-it's a passive/aggressive move where you try to hurt an organization by pretending to be something you aren't.

And I really don't get this quote from KK-

"I've been encouraging people to stay in the church and try to make things better from within," Kelly said. "I realize that's not possible for everyone, and they should do what they feel directed to do. But if possible, and if you feel able to, I think people should stay because some of the most effective change happens from within."

If someone is going to stay in the church, they should do it because they have a testimony of what the church claims it is or because they are working towards having such a testimony. Staying because you might be able to serve another organization's agenda better as a member than a nonmember seems like an odd thing for someone, who's fighting for her membership because she believes the church is what it says it is, to advocate.

Boy, that is the way I feel and pretty much what I said about my daughter on a thread about her being led astray by OrdainWomen. Yet, that is the way it is. Edited July 25, 2014 by readstoomuch

[JLHPROF]

Why is this even news?  I am sure more than 100 people officially leave the church for a variety of more interesting reasons all the time.  These who are supposedly resigning to support OW (and since most were already gone months or years ago that's debatable) are clearly out to attempt to bring bad press to the Church they'd already left.

In other words, sour grapes.

[BCSpace]

Why don't they try John Dehlin's tactic of constantly bringing already well-answered controversial issues to the fore, as if they haven't been answered at all, and use the excuse of keeping members in the Church as cover?

[The Nehor]

So while their leader fights in appeals to keep her membership others resign in droves. I am sensing a mixed message here.

[Sky]

"I testify that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God’s kingdom on the earth today. This kingdom will roll forward with or without us as individuals. Men and women who even momentarily take their eyes off of God’s glory and seek to exalt themselves, or who become entangled in the vain things of this world, will find that the kingdom quickly moves on without them. Unfortunately, none of us is immune from this all-too-human tendency. In the final dramatic hours of the Savior’s life, even His Apostles—those stalwart men who certainly should have known better—argued with one another about who should be accounted the greatest."  

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1989/10/an-eye-single-to-the-glory-of-god?lang=eng

 

These words are every bit as true today as they were when this talk was originally given!  

[VideoGameJunkie]

It's sad to see so many leave the church, though.

[Sky]

It's sad to see so many leave the church, though.

 

Yes and no…clearly they had separated themselves from the Church long ago, but they just now chose to make it official.  I don't think there is much the Church could have done, if anything, to appease these people.  I say let them go if that is what they really want.  Perhaps they are better off??  If nothing else, they have the chance to reevaluate where they stand at any given time.  They have the option to come back to the Church if they choose to.    

[Storm Rider]

Separating wheat from the tares; sometimes it is done for us and sometimes we do it ourselves.  Either way it is a process that will continue.  This bit of drama has turned into a sideshow that only plays in the most out of the way, backwater towns. We need to move on and and let this die a quick death.  She has a new Master now.

[stemelbow]

What lesson have we learned about this public movement and the Church's resolve to make a lesson of its leader?

More enmity and more digging in of heels. This all sucks. Attitude, hostility, opinion. I'm weak and foolish, but none of this makes sense. I feel like that's because I belong on the outs myself.

[Hamba Tuhan]

So while their leader fights in appeals to keep her membership others resign in droves. I am sensing a mixed message here.

 

I may be wrong, but I think the message may only seem mixed on the surface.

[Scott Lloyd]

See here: http://fox13now.com/2014/07/24/mormon-group-plans-mass-resignation-to-protest-excommunications/

And here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/24/mormon-mass-resignation_n_5618311.html

From the first article:

A statement of solidarity? Resignation?

Well, Kate Kelly encouraged her followers to "raise hell" in the Church. I suppose this is an example of folks following that instruction, or trying to.

From the second article:

Um, what? Did 500 attend, or 100? Or did 100 attend and 400 attend via Facebook?

Well, Kate, you created this mess. You encouraged others to "raise hell" in the Church. You own this now.

To be precise, she has instructed people to "stay in the church" but "raise hell" in it. She has also encouraged people to leave the Church if they feel so inclined.

I hope Ms. Kelly is starting to feel some twinge of regret over her bombastic actions of late.

Thanks,

-Smac

So only 100 showed up, and of that number, some came to "show support" for those who were resigning? Why were they only there to "show support"? Is it because one can't resign from something one doesn't belong to?

So, far from being the planned "mass resignation," it draws only 100, of whom only a fraction (who knows how large) are actually there to do the resigning. Many, if not most, of the rest are your garden variety anti-Mormon.

This thing appears less impressive the closer one looks at it. A contrived non-event event staged for media who don't seem to fully understand how extensively they are being used.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[why me]

What lesson have we learned about this public movement and the Church's resolve to make a lesson of its leader?

More enmity and more digging in of heels. This all sucks. Attitude, hostility, opinion. I'm weak and foolish, but none of this makes sense. I feel like that's because I belong on the outs myself.

I think that you got it wrong on this one. It wasn't about making a lesson of its leader. Rather it was about understanding boundaries that one must have when a member of the church. No church can have protest movements working from the inside for change, especially a church which claims to be revelatory. Would you feel the same if the church claimped down on a polygamous protest movement inside the church? A movement that was putting pressure on the church to reinstate polygamy? Or a movement from within the church to have a vocational priesthood? Should the church allow all protest movements from within its own body? And where does god fit in with these protest movements sprouting up within his church? At times we need to see the forest for the trees and not just see a tree in the forest.

 

We now have kate telling members who want change to stay in the church and work for change from within. What kind of church will it be with various people calling for change here and there and at odds with each other? Should all this be allowed to exist within a church body? Contention, strife, etc? All churches have created their own boundaries to safeguard the forest.

[Calm]

A contrived non-event event staged for media who don't seem to fully understand how extensively they are being used.

I am not sure a out that given the way the numbers were reported, but they probably preferred to have a nonstory they could pretend was one than nothing at all since they had dragged themselves out there to attend.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I believe it was Sevenbank who works with KSL or some other news agency, and when he attended these protests he found out that most of those protesting were either not members of the Church or hadn't been active in the Church for a very long time. My bet is that most of those who resigned were, as the girl in the article was, inactive for years and already left the Church in their heart. I doubt that there were too many active, temple-recommend carrying Mormon's who resigned their membership over this.

Gonna, go out on a limb, but I bet 0 active, temple recommend carrying, members left over this. IOW the faithful members are still active and are still members.

[smac97]

Why is this even news?

Well, it's not much in the way of "news." I have only seen two outlets cover it, Fox 13 (the Utah affiliate) and HuffingtonPost.com.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Well, it's not much in the way of "news." I have only seen two outlets cover it, Fox 13 (the Utah affiliate) and HuffingtonPost.com.

Thanks,

-Smac

Shocking Fox 13, who is generally the most hostile to the church and the most eager to try and cast the church in a bad light, covered it. They are a joke of a news organization.

 

Anyway, this event was a total joke and a sham. No believing LDS resigned that day.