Dehlin's Latest Hypothesis

[drums12]

From John Dehlin's facebook page:

 

"40% increase in missionaries, only 4% increase in baptisms. My guess is that it's not so much about the baptisms as it is about the retention of our young members. I believe that the church knows that if these young people go on missions, marry in the temple, and have children early...they are more likely to remain active, tithe-paying members. So they lower the missionary age to help keep these people in the fold. This is my hypothesis....."

 

He then links to the following:

 

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57862203-78/missionaries-church-converts-lds.html.csp

 

The more I read and/or hear of Dehlin, the more I despise what he's doing.  He practices his own form of priestcraft, setting himself up as a light to those of us who are just too stupid, ignorant, bigoted, homophobic, closed-minded, etc. to see the imminent implosion of LDS Inc.

 

[halconero]

I don't disagree with Dehlin. Where I differ is his (probable) conclusion that such an effect is a bad thing.

 

(Anecdote: talked with my mission president and wife earlier today. Reactivation has gone up a lot, at least in the Phoenix metro area, with the increase of missionaries.)

[omni]

From John Dehlin's facebook page:

 

"40% increase in missionaries, only 4% increase in baptisms. My guess is that it's not so much about the baptisms as it is about the retention of our young members. I believe that the church knows that if these young people go on missions, marry in the temple, and have children early...they are more likely to remain active, tithe-paying members. So they lower the missionary age to help keep these people in the fold. This is my hypothesis....."

 

He then links to the following:

 

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57862203-78/missionaries-church-converts-lds.html.csp

 

The more I read and/or hear of Dehlin, the more I despise what he's doing.  He practices his own form of priestcraft, setting himself up as a light to those of us who are just too stupid, ignorant, bigoted, homophobic, closed-minded, etc. to see the imminent implosion of LDS Inc.

 

So what did he say that was so wrong?  I've been told for years now by active believing members of the church that the most important convert is the missionary.  It's clear that RMs are more likely to remain active and marry in the temple.  I also thought it was common knowledge that the Church lowered the missionary age to increase the number of missionaries and eliminate (for men) the year after high school where a portion of the young men were falling away and not serving missions.   Obviously the Church wants the missionaries to gain converts, but this may be secondary to creating a foundation for lifelong membership in the Church.

[Rivers]

So what is happening during that year that is causing young people to fall away? Is it college?

[Duncan]

with all things we have to wait and see if his hypothesis bears out

[why me]

John has missed the point. Missionaries are not just about converting new members but also about visiting the less active and the active alike in the church. Their mission is to strengthen the membership. And this is why we see a better reactivation rate and a strenthening of the members, plus a slight increase in baptisms. Either way the church is stronger. So, what is Dehlin's problem except to bring up what he perceives to be negatives.

[why me]

with all things we have to wait and see if his hypothesis bears out

I think that the missionary effort is rather successful. I am not a great member and yet, last sunday the missionaries asked if they can visit me. I am glad that they asked. It shows that they care about my welfare and this is what they are also called to do: to watch over the membership and offer reconversions or support. It creates a much stronger community. However, John is in old fashioned mode and out of times. The missionaries are not just about seeking converts but also about strengthening the members and helping the less active. And in this the missionaries have been very successful.

[bjw]

I heard on another site that he wants to get certain chastity issues elliminated from the interviews bishops and SPs have with youth. Apparently he's stirring up a lot of issues in the church right now.

[why me]

I heard on another site that he wants to get certain chastity issues elliminated from the interviews bishops and SPs have with youth. Apparently he's stirring up a lot of issues in the church right now.

There is a thead about that too. But lets stay on topic for this thread. John has missed the new role of missionionaries. In certain wards in europe, there are now 8 missionairies. They all can't be active seeking new converts. Some are visiting inactives and actives and they are strengthening the ward members by visting them. According to one friend of mine in europe, the reactivation rate is quite high in his country.

[bjw]

There is a thead about that too. But lets stay on topic for this thread. John has missed the new role of missionionaries. In certain wards in europe, there are now 8 missionairies. They all can't be active seeking new converts. Some are visiting inactives and actives and they are strengthening the ward members by visting them. According to one friend of mine in europe, the reactivation rate is quite high in his country.

Sorry, didn't see the other thread.

I've noticed this in my ward as well. Our ward mission leader has a list of inactives that they visit in addition to investigators. I think anyone can use stats to make the church look bad. I've also noticed we have had a lot more visits from investigators as well, so the missionaries are still doing their job well in addition to these other duties.

[why me]

Sorry, didn't see the other thread.

I've noticed this in my ward as well. Our ward mission leader has a list of inactives that they visit in addition to investigators. I think anyone can use stats to make the church look bad. I've also noticed we have had a lot more visits from investigators as well, so the missionaries are still doing their job well in addition to these other duties.

Negatives can always be found and John seems to enjoy finding a perceived negative. But really needs to give it some thought before he blogs something. The increase in missionaries are not just to convert people but also to strengthen the current membership and john should be happy about this since the critics often complain about how many members are inactive.

[readstoomuch]

To me that means teaching missionaries about the concepts in being part of the ward, looking for opportunities for service and building up the community they live in .

[USU78]

Homophobia? Non sequitur much?{oops on sp}

Edited April 29, 2014 by USU78

[Senator]

So what did he say that was so wrong?  I've been told for years now by active believing members of the church that the most important convert is the missionary.  It's clear that RMs are more likely to remain active and marry in the temple.  I also thought it was common knowledge that the Church lowered the missionary age to increase the number of missionaries and eliminate (for men) the year after high school where a portion of the young men were falling away and not serving missions.   Obviously the Church wants the missionaries to gain converts, but this may be secondary to creating a foundation for lifelong membership in the Church.

 

This is what was essentially said by our visiting 70 at our stake conference.  To hasten the time when most members receive a testimony of the Gospel. The mission.

[stemelbow]

So what is happening during that year that is causing young people to fall away? Is it college?

It's pretty obvious isn't it? Its a three letter word that starts with 'S'.

[Gray]

My MP always told us that our own conversion was the most important thing about being on a mission. This isn't new or controversial   

[Brian 2.0]

John has missed the point. Missionaries are not just about converting new members but also about visiting the less active and the active alike in the church. Their mission is to strengthen the membership. And this is why we see a better reactivation rate and a strenthening of the members, plus a slight increase in baptisms. Either way the church is stronger. So, what is Dehlin's problem except to bring up what he perceives to be negatives.

Is there a good way to track this kind of progress? Temple recommend holders would help but that's not public. Number of wards and stakes?

I'm not disagreeing with you but it seems difficult to see if this is what is happening beyond anecdotal evidence.

[ALarson]

There is a thead about that too.

I can't see a thread on the topic of Bishop's interviews.  Do you have a link?  Thanks why me.

[ALarson]

So what did he say that was so wrong?  I've been told for years now by active believing members of the church that the most important convert is the missionary.  It's clear that RMs are more likely to remain active and marry in the temple.  I also thought it was common knowledge that the Church lowered the missionary age to increase the number of missionaries and eliminate (for men) the year after high school where a portion of the young men were falling away and not serving missions.   Obviously the Church wants the missionaries to gain converts, but this may be secondary to creating a foundation for lifelong membership in the Church.

I agree.

 

My son served a mission and came home with a much stronger testimony and a much stronger commitment to the church.  He was always a great kid, but his mission made a huge difference in his life.  I see nothing wrong with the church wanting to do this in every young person's life who has the desire to fulfill a mission.

 

Convert baptism retention rate is not as good as the church leaders would like it to be.  But, those young people who serve missions, many of whom come from strong LDS homes and were BIC, etc., do have a very strong foundation and keeping them in the church is important to the future of the church.

[USU78]

My MP always told us that our own conversion was the most important thing about being on a mission. This isn't new or controversial   

 

Quite agree . . . and we don't need mission presidents to tell us this.  The whole youth curriculum is pointed towards this.

[Scott Lloyd]

Given the state of the world and the steady progress toward immorality and faithlessness, it may well be that a greatly increased missionary force is what is needed simply to hold steady and maintain a marginal increase in the rate of convert baptisms.

 

To put it another way, were it not for the dramatic boost in the missionary force, we may well be falling behind by now.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[why me]

I can't see a thread on the topic of Bishop's interviews.  Do you have a link?  Thanks why me.

I can't find it. It may have been on a different board. However I did find this:

 

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/63193-john-dehlin-on-the-bofm/

 

I have a strange feeling that he just may be looking for an excuse to leave again. It doesn't seem that he believes in the lds church.

[why me]

Given the state of the world and the steady progress toward immorality and faithlessness, it may well that a greatly increased missionary force is what is needed simply to hold steady and maintain a marginal increase in the rate of convert baptisms.

 

To put it another way, were it not for the dramatic boost in the missionary force, we may well be falling behind by now.

I think that because of the size of the missionary force, these young people can be placed in various compacities in the ward. Some will be out there trying to get investigators and others will be strengthening the wards by attempting to get the less active more active. In may area, quite a few people have come back to the fold because of the new stress on reactivation thanks to the amound of missionaries in my ward.

[stemelbow]

Given the state of the world and the steady progress toward immorality and faithlessness, it may well that a greatly increased missionary force is what is needed simply to hold steady and maintain a marginal increase in the rate of convert baptisms.

 

To put it another way, were it not for the dramatic boost in the missionary force, we may well be falling behind by now.

woe. that would suggest the immorality and faithlessness hit some enormous bump of success recently, like at a magnitude perhaps never before seen.

[Scott Lloyd]

woe. that would suggest the immorality and faithlessness hit some enormous bump of success recently, like at a magnitude perhaps never before seen.

Perhaps. I'm only suggesting the possibility.

 

Though I would point out we have seen some very dramatic changes in an alarmingly short period of time, with the legal redefinition of marriage, the movement to legalize heretofore forbidden drugs, the propensity of many in the rising generations to self-identify as atheists or agnostics, the steady assault on the Church of Jesus Christ by its antagonists on the Internet and elsewhere, etc.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Scott Lloyd