Tramper Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 "The Book of Mormon is fiction. There is no other plausible explanation (in my view). Joseph (along with whomever) simply made it up. We believe(d) it largely because our parents and/or social groups taught and/or pressured us to believe in it. Any time spent trying to legitimize the historicity of the Book of Mormon is a fool's errand. You may as well try to locate Narnia or Mordor. Those who insist on historicity do so (primarily) for social reasons, again in my view - even if they aren't aware of that fact. The book simply isn't credible from any perspective other than a social and/or emotional perspective....and even from those perspectives, mileage will vary."Published today. Any comments? Not surprising in my view.
Popular Post Calm Posted March 29, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 29, 2014 " Those who insist on historicity do so (primarily) for social reasons, again in my view - even if they aren't aware of that fact"Iow, he is much smarter and self aware than those fools who believe in historicity.Not surprising at all. 9
drums12 Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) All hail John Dehlin I have seen the ignorance/foolishness of my ways... Joseph wrote itThis I knowFor John Dehlin tells me so Edited March 30, 2014 by drums12 2
Bikeemikey Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Im fine with the church having members included in our umbrella who think this way. Obviously there should be a limit what roles they can fulfill in the church, but given that baptism is about faith, repentance and loving christ im not sure we should limit baptism to only those who believe the BOM to be historical. Edit: Perhaps this should be its own spin off thread. Edited March 30, 2014 by Bikeemikey
Popular Post Calm Posted March 30, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 30, 2014 I don't have a problem with members who believe the BoM is ahistorical. It is the kind of stuff I quoted that is said about other members who hold a different POV I take issue with. 5
barbarbar Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 "The Book of Mormon is fiction. There is no other plausible explanation (in my view). Joseph (along with whomever) simply made it up. We believe(d) it largely because our parents and/or social groups taught and/or pressured us to believe in it. Any time spent trying to legitimize the historicity of the Book of Mormon is a fool's errand. You may as well try to locate Narnia or Mordor. Those who insist on historicity do so (primarily) for social reasons, again in my view - even if they aren't aware of that fact. The book simply isn't credible from any perspective other than a social and/or emotional perspective....and even from those perspectives, mileage will vary."Published today. Any comments? Not surprising in my view.When you have a chance, would you mind providing a link to the quote? Thank you!
USU78 Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) "The Book of Mormon is fiction. There is no other plausible explanation (in my view). Joseph (along with whomever) simply made it up. We believe(d) it largely because our parents and/or social groups taught and/or pressured us to believe in it. Any time spent trying to legitimize the historicity of the Book of Mormon is a fool's errand. You may as well try to locate Narnia or Mordor. Those who insist on historicity do so (primarily) for social reasons, again in my view - even if they aren't aware of that fact. The book simply isn't credible from any perspective other than a social and/or emotional perspective....and even from those perspectives, mileage will vary."Published today. Any comments? Not surprising in my view.so, one bears no responsibility for anything in the world. Everything is somebody else's fault. What a child. Edited March 30, 2014 by USU78 2
Duncan Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I don't have a problem with members who believe the BoM is ahistorical. It is the kind of stuff I quoted that is said about other members who hold a different POV I take issue with. one thing I take issue is if I am supposed to report to someone who doesn't believe in the Church or just sees it as just like any other organization, just a nice thing to do and yes I have done this unfortunately!
Tiki Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 At first, I thought it was a quote from F.A.R.M.S. ... You know the Book of Mormon isn't accurate ...loan-shifting, translations issues - because the text doesn't fit Mesoamerica... err... I meant John Dehlin's views.
Calm Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 one thing I take issue is if I am supposed to report to someone who doesn't believe in the Church or just sees it as just like any other organization, just a nice thing to do and yes I have done this unfortunately!That is hard, I won't deny it. I can see pulling people from certain callings if they dont have certain beliefs, membership I see requires a few essential ones.Not to say I don't think someone is missing out if they disbelieve certain teachings.... 1
Duncan Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 That is hard, I won't deny it. I can see pulling people from certain callings if they dont have certain beliefs, membership I see requires a few essential ones.Not to say I don't think someone is missing out if they disbelieve certain teachings.... for sure, like for me I am supposed to report to a man on the High Council who is Catholic. he attends our Church but also attends the Catholic Church with his wife and he told the elders he likes our Church for the friends and activities and whatnot, like great and all but give me a break
Calm Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 You have one of the strangest stakes I've heard of. Bet you feel special.
strappinglad Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 for sure, like for me I am supposed to report to a man on the High Council who is Catholic. he attends our Church but also attends the Catholic Church with his wife and he told the elders he likes our Church for the friends and activities and whatnot, like great and all but give me a break Ecumentalism at its best. Emphasis on the 'mental' part. I would likely just go report straight to the local parish priest and skip the middle man.
Popular Post The Nehor Posted March 30, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 30, 2014 "The Book of Mormon is fiction. There is no other plausible explanation (in my view). Joseph (along with whomever) simply made it up. We believe(d) it largely because our parents and/or social groups taught and/or pressured us to believe in it. Any time spent trying to legitimize the historicity of the Book of Mormon is a fool's errand. You may as well try to locate Narnia or Mordor. Those who insist on historicity do so (primarily) for social reasons, again in my view - even if they aren't aware of that fact. The book simply isn't credible from any perspective other than a social and/or emotional perspective....and even from those perspectives, mileage will vary." Thank you for your insight. You are wrong. That is all. 6
readstoomuch Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 There are certainly those who don`t find the BOM historical, but still find it to be the word of God. Did he qualify what he was saying? Otherwise, as happens too often, it is disappointing. For some ways of interpreting the BOM as having some possible anachronisms or Josephs input, there are some middle areas. Knowing Brother Joseph Again by Karl Sandberg, The Book of Mormon as a Modern Expansion of an Ancient Text by Blake Ostler and more recently David Bokovoy has a chapter in his Authoring the Old Testament about the BOM. They all provide for the book being inspired and the word of God. I don`t know why Grant Palmer or John Dehlin couldn`t adapt one of these theories, but maybe they just don`t believe it is the word of God. 1
juliann Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Any time spent trying to legitimize the historicity of the Book of Mormon is a fool's errand. You may as well try to locate Narnia or Mordor. Those who insist on historicity do so (primarily) for social reasons, again in my view - even if they aren't aware of that fact. How disappointing he once again turns to attacks and ridicule. 4
halconero Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 You have one of the strangest stakes I've heard of. Bet you feel special. Meh, it's Manitoba, the strangest province of Canada. It's to be expected. 2
Duncan Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 You have one of the strangest stakes I've heard of. Bet you feel special. oh absolutely!hahaha! I just say I am in the Calgary east, very east stake!! 1
Duncan Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Meh, it's Manitoba, the strangest province of Canada. It's to be expected. how are the Maple Laffs doing? hmmmm.... that's what I thought!! 1
omni Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 oh absolutely!hahaha! I just say I am in the Calgary east, very east stake!!Hi Duncan!When you've got give minutes, you need to listen to the first story of the March 14 episode of NPR's This American Life. It made me chuckle. 1
Brian 2.0 Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 "The Book of Mormon is fiction. There is no other plausible explanation (in my view). Joseph (along with whomever) simply made it up. We believe(d) it largely because our parents and/or social groups taught and/or pressured us to believe in it. Any time spent trying to legitimize the historicity of the Book of Mormon is a fool's errand. You may as well try to locate Narnia or Mordor. Those who insist on historicity do so (primarily) for social reasons, again in my view - even if they aren't aware of that fact. The book simply isn't credible from any perspective other than a social and/or emotional perspective....and even from those perspectives, mileage will vary."Published today. Any comments? Not surprising in my view.I also am curious where this was published. And how long ago this quote is from, given his changes in activity.
ksfisher Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 A year or so ago I listened to John Dehlin's podcast interview with Brant Gardner. John didn't really come off as someone who knew a whole lot about the book. Like I said, it's been awhile, but that was my impression.
nealr Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I also am curious where this was published. And how long ago this quote is from, given his changes in activity.Soooo... You missed the "published today" part?
Buzzard Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 And yet another zig to Mr. Dehlin's zags. I'm not for kicking him out of the church, but it sounds like he is leaving of his own accord. If the Book of Mormon isn't what is says it is, why not just join the Church of the NFL and give yourself a 10% raise in the process?
Duncan Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Hi Duncan!When you've got give minutes, you need to listen to the first story of the March 14 episode of NPR's This American Life. It made me chuckle. "Calgary didn't have much pride at all. The city wasn't doing great. " hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahhaha!!!! FWIW there are 3 women I would marry outta Calgary, so if one of those things happen then i'd have to visit the place 1
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