John Dehlin On The Bofm

[Tramper]

So thus far you have started a thread with a quote attributed to John Dehlin and three pages in still no response to the CFR. Next time include the link to the source in the opening post otherwise you run the risk of posting libel.

 

Thanks.

Message recieved. Thanks.

[Tacenda]

I would not be in the church if I hadn't worked through the issues. I did so through book study. Now people podcast or message board. A relative trusts Fawn Brodie because MStories told her it was reliable. It is full of bad research and yet Brodie is very readable. I can't get her to read Rough Stone Rolling. RSR does get air time on MS, but she seems set on Brodie. I looked up

every reference in Brodie. It took me a whole summer to do so. Danel Bachman's thesis on plural marriage helped counter Brodie. It was about the best available, still is a great source. I actually wrote the Church History dept who gave me some honest answers. They sent part of Bachman's thesis and s pamphlet about the Adam God theory by Van Hale. These and orher things they did helped me to feel that they weren't hiding anything. Of course they were sent through my stake president.

Grant Palmer gets slot of air time and when I read it I was underwhelmed by his apparent lack of quoting relevant literature that disagreed with. By that time I owned most of the resources he left out. Easy to look up. 20 something's listen to podcasts more than actually reading. Grant Palmer seems to have help bring down a number of members. He Podcasts with John. A few podcasts are good. Maybe 10% on MS.

Readstoomuch, I'm so impressed by you. You took the hard route in determining your faith and a would be crisis with diligent searching through reading books, and going to the church. I'd love to read what you've come up with to counteract some anti stuff. I know that's why we had Fair, but that was their job.

Recently I went to the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit. They had plaques with detailed facts near each of the vast amount of artifacts. My husband and I parked at a meter and had only 2 hours, I'm glad we rented the hand held device with audio to explain to us alot quicker than we could read, or we'd have been there for hours.

I think in this day and age people don't have the time or don't take the time to read, they just rely on listening to someone who has, and take the lazy way. That would be me!! But before I got hooked on the podcasts, I did read a lot of things. I read through Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History" and read the rebuttal to it by Hugh Nibley. And read a lot of Quinn's work, but how cool to listen to the guy on a MS podcast, or listen to Hugh's nephew or son in law talk about the guy! Though I'm glad to atleast have read a few things beforehand. Both are invaluable ways of learning.

When are you going to take a stab at it? I'd love to read or hear your research, preferably listen though!!

Edited March 30, 2014 by Tacenda

[Brian 2.0]

I have a print screen that can verify the quote. John wrote his comment in a thread on Facebook yesterday.

Thank you.

Just wanted to make sure this was legit before people started going off on

[omni]

I'm torn on this point. I certainly wouldn't ever suggest any of the "unofficial" Mormon podcasts (Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, Mormon Expression, Mormon Expositor) to a TBM. In fact, at times, I've had members ask how, as a convert, I know about some of the quirky things of Mormonism (e.g., the three Nephites or that the Holy Spirit goes to sleep at midnight). I NEVER tell them that I heard it on, say, Feminist Mormon Housewives podcast. I caused enough trouble joining the Church in the first place.

 

I must say I'm impressed with your knowledge of Mormon culture and our difficult issues.  Had I not already known, I would have never guessed you were a convert of only a few years.  Heck, I think you could pass as a BIC better than most BICs

[Bikeemikey]

Thank you.

Just wanted to make sure this was legit before people started going off on

It would still be great to get a copy of that screen shot.

[readstoomuch]

Tacenda,

30 plus years ago there were no podcasts or information available. I am too private and don`t have enough time to write a blog or do a podcast. I try to drop the names of articles or books that helped me when I post. Here are a few. Brodie Revisited was published some time ago. Todd Compton wrote about the plural marriage part of the book and some other big names took on other issues. A little hard to get and was printed by Utah State. Marvin Hill wrote a good review also way back when.

There would be a list like that for every issue. I think I went through the steps in this thread about Book of Mormon Historicity that I have taken. Rough Stone Rolling brought quite a bit of early history together that was scattered over a number of sources. Bushman did have his Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism years before RSR. You can get many of these books on intraloan from your local library.

I do believe in the truth of the gospel. A faith crisis and taking the steps to deal with the issues colors things differently. For example, I believe in the Book of Mormon as the word of God, but with some clarifications. Unfortunately, I have been underwhelmed with my attempts to help those in faith crisis. Of course I will talk to them and I have given a number of books away. They don`t seem to help and Mormon Stories, John Dehlin and Grant Palmer come up over and over again with people in their 20`s. Mostly people come to me for an issue and I try to find the most faithful response to give to them. Fortunatley, there are many of those available. I read most of the FARMS and FAIR sources. For the most part they do a good job with the issues. I am impressed with how frank they have become over the years. It does risk someone being overexposed to information that they didn`t know. They just find new cans of worms. That is why shorter articles or books early on are what I start with.

I am not that impressive, but if I can do it, I know others can do so it also and come through on the other end still believing In Christ and the Church. Spiritual experiences and prayer is the glue that brings it all together. Those last two are not always easy to do when you are in faith crisis. One final and surprising book was Strangers in Paradox written by the Toscanos. I know they have their issues, but they helped me through many parts of the temple that I didn`t understand. Good reading to you.

[Calm]

I know that's why we had Fair, but that was their job. 

 

"Job?"

 

Last I checked I don't remember either getting a paycheck or being told by someone else that I needed to be out there helping give people answers to their questions.  And no one else at FairMormon has either from what I know of why they are a part of FM.

 

All those involved in FairMormon did and continue to do is see a need and desire to help others with it.  This does not in any way remove the responsibility from individuals to do the same thing for themselves anymore than knowing there are math teachers out there removes the responsibility of learning how to balance one's accounts.  FairMormon should never replace personal commitment to learning or be used as an excuse not to learn for oneself (as in 'someone out there knows what they are talking about so I will just ignore it').

[Tacenda]

"Job?"

Last I checked I don't remember either getting a paycheck or being told by someone else that I needed to be out there helping give people answers to their questions. And no one else at FairMormon has either from what I know of why they are a part of FM.

All those involved in FairMormon did and continue to do is see a need and desire to help others with it. This does not in any way remove the responsibility from individuals to do the same thing for themselves anymore than knowing there are math teachers out there removes the responsibility of learning how to balance one's accounts. FairMormon should never replace personal commitment to learning or be used as an excuse not to learn for oneself (as in 'someone out there knows what they are talking about so I will just ignore it').

I should have clarified "job", it was their main focus, sorry.

[mormonnewb]

I must say I'm impressed with your knowledge of Mormon culture and our difficult issues.  Had I not already known, I would have never guessed you were a convert of only a few years.  Heck, I think you could pass as a BIC better than most BICs

Thanks ... I think

However, I must confess that I still don't feel fully "Mormon." I think it's like converting to Judaism. There's more to being "Jewish" than the religious observances. It's a culture -- a mindset. I don't think our culture is quite as distinct (we haven't been at it for 3,500 years), but there is still something "peculiar" about us. It's why we all have "Mordar" to some degree or another. There is just something about some of us that exudes "Mormon."

For example, I just went to a new dentist and at the end if the consultation, I fully expected him to say, "and I end this consult in the name of Jesus Christ, amen." I went home and looked him up and sure enough, he went to BYU. I had a lot of fun over the next few visits confusing him by using Mormonisms in our conversations ("But you don't LOOK Mormon!").

[Tramper]

It would still be great to get a copy of that screen shot.

Send me your email as a private message. If you're on Facebook you can see for yourself, just check my link above.