Holy Ghost's Involvement In Your Marriage Partner

[Danzo]

Saturday's Warrior Pseudo Doctrine

 

we are entitled to receive revelation on any subject.

[JLHPROF]

Saturday's Warrior Pseudo Doctrine

 

Hardly -

 

"Thou being willing and anxious to imitate them, waiting and desirous to obtain a body, a resurrection and exaltation also, and having obtained permission, madest a covenant with one of thy kindred spirits to be thy guardian angel while in mortality, also with two others, male and female spirits, that thou wouldst come and take a tabernacle through their lineage, and become one of their offspring.  You also chose a kindred spirit whom you loved in the spirit world to be your head, stay, husband and protector on the earth and to exalt you in eternal worlds.  All these were arranged, likewise the spirits that should tabernacle through your lineage."  - President John Taylor

 

Now if your spouse is foreordained, how on earth do you expect to find them without the Holy Ghost - random chance?

Edited April 3, 2014 by JLHPROF

[Sanpitch]

Hardly -

 

"Thou being willing and anxious to imitate them, waiting and desirous to obtain a body, a resurrection and exaltation also, and having obtained permission, madest a covenant with one of thy kindred spirits to be thy guardian angel while in mortality, also with two others, male and female spirits, that thou wouldst come and take a tabernacle through their lineage, and become one of their offspring.  You also chose a kindred spirit whom you loved in the spirit world to be your head, stay, husband and protector on the earth and to exalt you in eternal worlds.  All these were arranged, likewise the spirits that should tabernacle through your lineage."  - President John Taylor

 

Now if your spouse is foreordained, how on earth do you expect to find them without the Holy Ghost - random chance?

But, how reliable is that statement?  I think John Taylor and Brigham Young and many others made a lot of statements that are not worth the paper they're written on.

[JLHPROF]

But, how reliable is that statement?  I think John Taylor and Brigham Young and many others made a lot of statements that are not worth the paper they're written on.

 

Reliable in that he said it.  And like ANY other statement by ANY prophet of the Church it is reliable if you belive it and unreliable if you don't.  It's not like there's an absolute proof of prophetic reliablity.

[Nofear]

We are presented with the fact that we are choosing an eternal partner in our moment of greatest ignorance and potentially most wickedness and when the pool of candidates is the smallest possible (we are only exposed to the tiniest slice of the body of God's children in our mortality).

 

A) I certainly hope that inspiration and possibly prior arrangements play a role and

B) any two personalities, however different, are certainly capable of harmonious and happy interaction if celestial attributes are acquired.

[K-2]

Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner said Joseph Smith "told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife." and "Joseph said I was his before I came here and all the devils in hell should never get me from him."

She was his in the Pre-mortal existence? Hmmm....

[Ahab]

I dont believe LDS have the monopoly on guidance by the Holy Ghost. That seems ridiculous. Everyone is born with yje Light of Christ which shows them all thingd they should do.

I agree. The light of Christ can lead anyone to the opportunity to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and a marriage partner the Holy Ghost will help to make the perfect companion. It just takes 2 people committed to perfecting themselves for each other through the power of the Holy Ghost.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

 

I had a question about something mentioned on page 97 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

 

It says that it is unique to only the LDS Church that her members use the Holy Ghost 

to guide them to the correct marriage partner. Does this imply that divorces are caused 

when Satan leads one to find the wrong spouse?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

Since when is having the Holy Ghost confirm something to you mean that it will succeed? For instance, I have the HG tell me the church is true and I join. Years later I start smoking. Is that evidence that the HG doesn't exists? Or is that evidence that the church is false? Or is it that you cannot trust the HG it really is just your own feelings?

[Ahab]

Hardly -

"Thou being willing and anxious to imitate them, waiting and desirous to obtain a body, a resurrection and exaltation also, and having obtained permission, madest a covenant with one of thy kindred spirits to be thy guardian angel while in mortality, also with two others, male and female spirits, that thou wouldst come and take a tabernacle through their lineage, and become one of their offspring. You also chose a kindred spirit whom you loved in the spirit world to be your head, stay, husband and protector on the earth and to exalt you in eternal worlds. All these were arranged, likewise the spirits that should tabernacle through your exneage." - President John Taylor

Now if your spouse is foreordained, how on earth do you expect to find them without the Holy Ghost - random chance?

Think bigger. We made that covenant with all of our brothers and sisters during a family council meeting and we weren't limiting ourselves to any specific person. We were just saying we would do what our parents had done, including finding a spouse.

[JLHPROF]

Think bigger. We made that covenant with all of our brothers and sisters during a family council meeting and we weren't limiting ourselves to any specific person. We were just saying we would do what our parents had done, including finding a spouse.

Disagree.  Pres. Taylor's statement was pretty clear - You also chose a kindred spirit whom you loved in the spirit world to be your head.  Specific people covenanted with each other in my opinion.  I believe there were actual ordinances performed pre-earth that are mirrored here just as there are ordinances performed here that have a corresponding ordinance on the other side of the veil.

 

I

[Duncan]

Disagree.  Pres. Taylor's statement was pretty clear - You also chose a kindred spirit whom you loved in the spirit world to be your head.  Specific people covenanted with each other in my opinion.  I believe there were actual ordinances performed pre-earth that are mirrored here just as there are ordinances performed here that have a corresponding ordinance on the other side of the veil.

 

I

 

 

I think that happened in a few cases but in the generality of people it probably never happened

[Bikeemikey]

If the Holy Ghost becomes "involved" with my marriage partner is it still adultery?    

[Bikeemikey]

Reliable in that he said it.  And like ANY other statement by ANY prophet of the Church it is reliable if you belive it and unreliable if you don't.  It's not like there's an absolute proof of prophetic reliablity.

 

Your right, there is however absolute proof of prophetic unreliability (e.g man will never step foot on the moon it is Gods domain)... what is one to do

Edited April 3, 2014 by Bikeemikey

[cinepro]

 

I had a question about something mentioned on page 97 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

 

It says that it is unique to only the LDS Church that her members use the Holy Ghost 

to guide them to the correct marriage partner. Does this imply that divorces are caused 

when Satan leads one to find the wrong spouse?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

 

It's an interesting idea, but ultimately it doesn't hold up for me. 

 

First, I don't buy that there are "correct" and "incorrect" marriage partners.

 

Second, there are many, many people in the Church who have faced divorce because their spouse wronged them somehow (cheating, abuse, addiction etc.)  Many of these people felt they had the confirmation of the Holy Ghost on their choice to get married.  If it was a false positive, then we need to be clear about this when we discuss it.  It's very important for people to know that even if they feel the Holy Ghost, that's only an X% chance that they are entering a marriage that won't end in divorce (or endure in misery).

 

Pretending the Holy Ghost is 100% reliable on these (or any) matters only leads to overconfidence and underdeveloped decision making skills.

Edited April 3, 2014 by cinepro

[JLHPROF]

I think that happened in a few cases but in the generality of people it probably never happened

 

What makes you say that?

There is every reason to believe that our families were organized, foreordained, covenanted, and possibly underwent some kind of corresponding ordinance in the pre-earth life.  Then we get here and manage to make all kinds of screw ups so that it will take 1000 years (millennium) of temple ordinances to put our families back in order here.

 

I fail to understand why we are all so sure our actions here dictate where and how we end up in the resurrection, but people really hate to think that our actions in the pre-existence might have determined where and how we ended up here.  All men are definitely not created equal or placed in equal circumstances and there are probably reasons for that.

[David T]

Whats the exact wording?

I can't believe this hasn't been answered, as the whole discussion hinges on it. I'll open up my copy and type it here for reference:

 

It's on page 97 of Mine Errand from the Lord, and is one snippet under the larger Topic 'The Gift of the Holy Ghost'.

--

"The spirit can warn you of dangers.  Part of the responsibility of the Spirit is to warn you of dangers.  If you ever have a feeling that you should not go somewhere, then even though you may be coaxed by others, you say, "No, I am not free to go that way.  I feel like I shouldn't go."  They may tease you or even mock you, but as soon as you learn to follow that Spirit, then your way through life will be easier.  You will eventually know how to conduct your life. . . . In due time, you will be guided as to what you should do about a marriage partner, which young man or young woman should be a part of your life.  That is the thing in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that is unique, and it rests upon every member, and it is in every country. . . . They have learned about this gift of the Holy Ghost.  It is a powerful and a precious thing. (07-02)."

--

The ellipses are part of the text as presented in Mine Errand From The Lord. The "07-02" is the reference for the source, which keys it to , "Address at Central Mexico stake conference broadcast, 6 May 2007"

Edited April 3, 2014 by David T

[theplains]

Whats the exact wording?

 

"The Spirit can warn you of dangers ... In due time, you will be guided as to what you should

do about a marriage partner, which young man or young woman should be a part of your life.

That is the thing in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that is unique, and it

rests upon every member [of the LDS Church that is], and it is in every country ... They have

learned about this gift of the Holy Ghost".

 

Regards,

Jim

[Rob Osborn]

"The Spirit can warn you of dangers ... In due time, you will be guided as to what you should

do about a marriage partner, which young man or young woman should be a part of your life.

That is the thing in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that is unique, and it

rests upon every member [of the LDS Church that is], and it is in every country ... They have

learned about this gift of the Holy Ghost".

 

Regards,

Jim

Aye. I can agree with this partially. While I do beleve that we can receive inspiration as to who to marry, I think all of Gods children have that right regardless of if they are members or not.

[Duncan]

What makes you say that?

There is every reason to believe that our families were organized, foreordained, covenanted, and possibly underwent some kind of corresponding ordinance in the pre-earth life.  Then we get here and manage to make all kinds of screw ups so that it will take 1000 years (millennium) of temple ordinances to put our families back in order here.

 

I fail to understand why we are all so sure our actions here dictate where and how we end up in the resurrection, but people really hate to think that our actions in the pre-existence might have determined where and how we ended up here.  All men are definitely not created equal or placed in equal circumstances and there are probably reasons for that.

 

 

you have a two part statement. Consider the fact that some people, LDS or not, never marry in this life, should never get married and some people become single ministering angels (however that all works but whatever). It would be so nice if everyone found that someone special but reality says different, some marriages in  are garbage, why would God want people to be miserable but married and not single but super happy?

 

the second part is troublesome. It's easy to say what Alma 13 says that all men who have the Priesthood or foreordained to get it but, to me, that is as far as you can go and I think some callings but not all were foreordained. There is too much grey area when we see the real world application when it comes to who gets the Priesthood and who doesn't

[omni]

What makes you say that?

There is every reason to believe that our families were organized, foreordained, covenanted, and possibly underwent some kind of corresponding ordinance in the pre-earth life.  Then we get here and manage to make all kinds of screw ups so that it will take 1000 years (millennium) of temple ordinances to put our families back in order here.

 

I fail to understand why we are all so sure our actions here dictate where and how we end up in the resurrection, but people really hate to think that our actions in the pre-existence might have determined where and how we ended up here.  All men are definitely not created equal or placed in equal circumstances and there are probably reasons for that.

 

So what happens to a foreordained couple's children if said couple doesn't follow the spirit and marry?

[Calm]

I think that sometimes we can be so focused on receiving a revelation that we miss the obvious.

 

I heard this in a priesthood meeting when I was still active.

This joke is referenced enough in threads, it may be worthwhile to make it the official joke of the board and have it posted on the info/rules page so that people don't have to go looking for it so often.

[Calm]

Then we get here and manage to make all kinds of screw ups 

 

If we are doing screw ups and making bad choices then how can those who come after us have the same sort of arrangement given that our agency has changed things?

 

Unless God told us what was going to happen to everyone already and so made arrangements based on his knowledge of us and so we are following a predetermined course (predetermined by our own eternal nature and how it reacts to our given environment).

Edited April 4, 2014 by calmoriah

[cinepro]

What makes you say that?

There is every reason to believe that our families were organized, foreordained, covenanted, and possibly underwent some kind of corresponding ordinance in the pre-earth life.  Then we get here and manage to make all kinds of screw ups so that it will take 1000 years (millennium) of temple ordinances to put our families back in order here.

 

It's a romantic notion, but no.  There is no reason to believe that our families were "organized" in the pre-existence.

[Duncan]

I am looking for a woman but having no success, I don't live in a high LDS area and I can't move on account of me having a son from a previous marriage that didn't work out. I just figure God knows where I live and he'll have to send me a woman when he's good and ready to do so. I can't imagine the premortal back door deals that went into all this

[JLHPROF]

It's a romantic notion, but no.  There is no reason to believe that our families were "organized" in the pre-existence.

 

Except that Joseph Smith and John Taylor both taught that they were.