Moving Forward With Constant Revelation?

[theplains]

I had a question about something mentioned on page 136-137 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

 

It says, "This Church couldn't move forward one day without a constancy of revelation, not

just to the President of the Church or to the Twelve, but to the membership of the Church

across the world".

 

Is there a reason why he didn't specifically mention the two other members of The First

Presidency?

 

Where can we find some major examples of this constancy of revelation from the 15

Apostles?

 

Thanks,

Jim

[thesometimesaint]

The President of the Church is the only one whom is authorized to receive revelation for the whole Church. For it to be canonized requires Common Consent of the whole Church.

[Duncan]

well, the President of the Church is the one who defines what is or isn't doctrine of the Church and receives the direction the Church should move. Of the 15 that comes to mind is the 1978 revelation, there are probably others but that one seems dramatic.

[mfbukowski]

He also did not mention the seventies, stake presidents, bishops, ward mission leaders, nursery assistants.....

[BCSpace]

Where can we find some major examples of this constancy of revelation from the 15

Apostles?

 

 

 

I think one can see it when they come to preside over a Stake Conference.  Especially in the leadership meetings, they constantly stress listening to the Spirit and how to identify it etc.  One can only assume they follow the same.

Edited May 14, 2014 by BCSpace

[Storm Rider]

 

I had a question about something mentioned on page 136-137 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

 

It says, "This Church couldn't move forward one day without a constancy of revelation, not

just to the President of the Church or to the Twelve, but to the membership of the Church

across the world".

 

Is there a reason why he didn't specifically mention the two other members of The First

Presidency?

 

Where can we find some major examples of this constancy of revelation from the 15

Apostles?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

 

I think there is a bit of writing style going here rather than an attempt to specify a required process for the leadership. This also is not language I would use because it is an oversimplification.  I have never thought of living life in a state of constant revelation for myself or for others.  I can understand living in a state of constant choice between good an evil, but not revelation.  Revelation in this context sounds like guidance and direction.  This life is more about learning to desire holiness and righteousness rather than always choosing righteousness.  We are mortal and we seek after the holiness that Jesus brings, but achievement of holiness is only through his grace rather than our choice.  We fail too often and we will continue to fail.  

 

In this situation I think Elder Packer is only emphasizing a point rather than declaring truths.

[CV75]

Where can we find some major examples of this constancy of revelation from the 15

Apostles?

How do you distinguish, for anyone, what constitutes a "major" or a "minor" example? What major example can you offer from your life?

[JLHPROF]

How do you distinguish, for anyone, what constitutes a "major" or a "minor" example? What major example can you offer from your life?

 

Major - God speaks directly to man.

Minor - Man "feels" inspired by God.

 

Somewhere along the line revelation got redefined to mean inspiration.  Unfortunately inspiration is much harder to recognize (or proove).

[thesometimesaint]

Major - God speaks directly to man.

Minor - Man "feels" inspired by God.

 

Somewhere along the line revelation got redefined to mean inspiration.  Unfortunately inspiration is much harder to recognize (or proove).

 

When you pray do you expect an answer?

[JLHPROF]

When you pray do you expect an answer?

 

Of course.  But just because I "feel" I have an answer I don't expect anyone else to believe it came from God.

Then again, if I present an actual revelation I received (for myself, not for the Church  ) I suppose I don't expect anyone else to believe it to be from God either.

 

I just feel more security in the revelations Joseph Smith up through Joseph F. Smith received because  I can study, cross reference and refer back to them than I do in the inspiration we are asked to assume our current leaders as receiving when a decision is made or a doctrine is announced.

[CV75]

Major - God speaks directly to man.

Minor - Man "feels" inspired by God.

 

Somewhere along the line revelation got redefined to mean inspiration.  Unfortunately inspiration is much harder to recognize (or proove).

These two descriptions, to me, overlap to the point they are relatively the same. And sometimes it takes inspiration to recognize revelation and vice-versa, whether we are witnessing (or not) someone else's inspiration/revelation or experiencing our own!

[Duncan]

Of course.  But just because I "feel" I have an answer I don't expect anyone else to believe it came from God.

Then again, if I present an actual revelation I received (for myself, not for the Church  ) I suppose I don't expect anyone else to believe it to be from God either.

 

I just feel more security in the revelations Joseph Smith up through Joseph F. Smith received because  I can study, cross reference and refer back to them than I do in the inspiration we are asked to assume our current leaders as receiving when a decision is made or a doctrine is announced.

 

 

when have been ask to assume anything since the days of Pres. Grant?

[theplains]

How do you distinguish, for anyone, what constitutes a "major" or a "minor" example? What major example can you offer from your life?

 

For the first part, I'm not sure. I suppose the supposed revelation halting plural marriage 

may have been major to some, minor to others.  For the major example in my life, it would

have to be a personal revelation (from the Holy Spirit) about the need to follow the doctrines

that are clearly taught in scripture and to avoid speculation. This led me out of one church

and into another.

 

But from the LDS perspective, what was the last thing mentioned by any of the 15 Apostles

which would constitute a revelation from God about any doctrine or principle for the church

as a whole?

 

Thanks,

Jim

[Coreyb]

For the first part, I'm not sure. I suppose the supposed revelation halting plural marriage 

may have been major to some, minor to others.  For the major example in my life, it would

have to be a personal revelation (from the Holy Spirit) about the need to follow the doctrines

that are clearly taught in scripture and to avoid speculation. This led me out of one church

and into another.

 

But from the LDS perspective, what was the last thing mentioned by any of the 15 Apostles

which would constitute a revelation from God about any doctrine or principle for the church

as a whole?

 

Thanks,

Jim

I had a thread similar to this somewhat lamenting the loss of written revelations coming from the Brethren. I dont doubt that the church continues to be lead by God through revelations at sundry times and divers manners as he did in times past unto the fathers by the prophets ( ), but without these being written as, or even declared to be revelations from God, it becomes hard to distinguish Gods word from patriarchal or administrative wisdom, judgement and opinion. It makes it difficult to know if we are placing our faith solely in God as revealed through human oracles, or in the humans themselves.

[pogi]

It makes it difficult to know if we are placing our faith solely in God as revealed through human oracles, or in the humans themselves.

 

Perhaps that is the point to help us mature through spiritual discernment rather than blind reliance. 

[JLHPROF]

Perhaps that is the point to help us mature through spiritual discernment rather than blind reliance. 

 

There's some truth to this.  I think God does expect us to get our own revelations.  Goodness knows Joseph Smith taught that enough.  But at the same time I think when a GA gets up in conference (or sends out a memo) and says "this is what the Lord wants the Church to do" concerning a doctrine or ordinance it feels a lot more like blind reliance than following a revelation these days.  In the entire D&C every revelation features some identification of the Lord speaking (except the few that are called inspired writings, visions or letters but not revelations).  I would love to hear from God directly to His Church again.

 

I mean, does God actually speak to man any more or does God just prompt with feelings?  And do both fill the Amos requirement of revealing His will to His prophets?  Or is it their best guess based on feelings?

Edited May 15, 2014 by JLHPROF

[Duncan]

There's some truth to this.  I think God does expect us to get our own revelations.  Goodness knows Joseph Smith taught that enough.  But at the same time I think when a GA gets up in conference (or sends out a memo) and says "this is what the Lord wants the Church to do" concerning a doctrine or ordinance it feels a lot more like blind reliance than following a revelation these days.  In the entire D&C every revelation features some identification of the Lord speaking (except the few that are called inspired writings, visions or letters but not revelations).  I would love to hear from God directly to His Church again.

 

I mean, does God actually speak to man any more or does God just prompt with feelings?  And do both fill the Amos requirement of revealing His will to His prophets?  Or is it their best guess based on feelings?

 

 

From Pres. Kimball

 

"Now, my brothers and sisters, it seems clear to me, indeed, this impression weighs upon me—that the Church is at a point in its growth and maturity when we are at last ready to move forward in a major way. Some decisions have been made and others pending, which will clear the way, organizationally. But the basic decisions needed for us to move forward, as a people, must be made by the individual members of the Church. The major strides which must be made by the Church will follow upon the major strides to be made by us as individuals.

We have paused on some plateaus long enough. Let us resume our journey forward and upward. Let us quietly put an end to our reluctance to reach out to others—whether in our own families, wards, or neighborhoods. We have been diverted, at times, from fundamentals on which we must now focus in order to move forward as a person or as a people."

 

thems my sentiments!

[JLHPROF]

From Pres. Kimball

 

"Now, my brothers and sisters, it seems clear to me, indeed, this impression weighs upon me—that the Church is at a point in its growth and maturity when we are at last ready to move forward in a major way. Some decisions have been made and others pending, which will clear the way, organizationally. But the basic decisions needed for us to move forward, as a people, must be made by the individual members of the Church. The major strides which must be made by the Church will follow upon the major strides to be made by us as individuals.

We have paused on some plateaus long enough. Let us resume our journey forward and upward. Let us quietly put an end to our reluctance to reach out to others—whether in our own families, wards, or neighborhoods. We have been diverted, at times, from fundamentals on which we must now focus in order to move forward as a person or as a people."

 

thems my sentiments!

 

Nice sentiments, even if they are non-specific platitudes.

[thesometimesaint]

For the first part, I'm not sure. I suppose the supposed revelation halting plural marriage 

may have been major to some, minor to others.  For the major example in my life, it would

have to be a personal revelation (from the Holy Spirit) about the need to follow the doctrines

that are clearly taught in scripture and to avoid speculation. This led me out of one church

and into another.

 

But from the LDS perspective, what was the last thing mentioned by any of the 15 Apostles

which would constitute a revelation from God about any doctrine or principle for the church

as a whole?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

That's pretty easy, if it said in GC it is revelation. To be canonized requires a bit more.

[Duncan]

Nice sentiments, even if they are non-specific platitudes.

 

well, what needs to be done in your life? work on that

[Coreyb]

That's pretty easy, if it said in GC it is revelation. To be canonized requires a bit more.[/quote

i disagree that anything said at GC constitutes revelation

[Coreyb]

From Pres. Kimball

 

"Now, my brothers and sisters, it seems clear to me, indeed, this impression weighs upon me—that the Church is at a point in its growth and maturity when we are at last ready to move forward in a major way. Some decisions have been made and others pending, which will clear the way, organizationally. But the basic decisions needed for us to move forward, as a people, must be made by the individual members of the Church. The major strides which must be made by the Church will follow upon the major strides to be made by us as individuals.

We have paused on some plateaus long enough. Let us resume our journey forward and upward. Let us quietly put an end to our reluctance to reach out to others—whether in our own families, wards, or neighborhoods. We have been diverted, at times, from fundamentals on which we must now focus in order to move forward as a person or as a people."

 

thems my sentiments!

wow! that kind of position could have some big implications for those wishing to change the current stance on things like female ordination and homosexuality in the church

[Duncan]

wow! that kind of position could have some big implications for those wishing to change the current stance on things like female ordination and homosexuality in the church

 

it will be interesting to see where the Church goes in the future for sure

[thesometimesaint]

That's pretty easy, if it said in GC it is revelation. To be canonized requires a bit more.[/quote

i disagree that anything said at GC constitutes revelation

 

I'm fine with disagreement. Here what the Church says about revelation. "Revelation is communication from God to His children".

https://www.lds.org/topics/revelation?lang=eng

[Coreyb]

I'm fine with disagreement. Here what the Church says about revelation. "Revelation is communication from God to His children".

https://www.lds.org/topics/revelation?lang=eng

Not sure how the article bolsters your previous statement about things said in GC