Tampering With One's Procreative Capacity

[theplains]

I had a question about something mentioned on page 72-73 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

 

"If our transgression includes tampering with the procreative capacity of another of

either gender, then there is a necessary confession beyond prayer. From His priesthood 

the Lord has designated the bishop to be the common judge. The bishop represents the 

Lord in extending forgiveness for the Church".

 

Does this include contraception or just invitro-fertilization?  Are there other ways

to tamper with one's procreative capacity that must be confessed to the bishop?

 

Thanks,

Jim

[EllenMaksoud]

 

I had a question about something mentioned on page 72-73 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

 

"If our transgression includes tampering with the procreative capacity of another of

either gender, then there is a necessary confession beyond prayer. From His priesthood 

the Lord has designated the bishop to be the common judge. The bishop represents the 

Lord in extending forgiveness for the Church".

 

Does this include contraception or just invitro-fertilization?  Are there other ways

to tamper with one's procreative capacity that must be confessed to the bishop?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

Um how about "ouch", Vasectomy, or intra Uterine rings, or implanted birth control?

[cinepro]

 

I had a question about something mentioned on page 72-73 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

 

"If our transgression includes tampering with the procreative capacity of another of

either gender, then there is a necessary confession beyond prayer. From His priesthood 

the Lord has designated the bishop to be the common judge. The bishop represents the 

Lord in extending forgiveness for the Church".

 

Does this include contraception or just invitro-fertilization?  Are there other ways

to tamper with one's procreative capacity that must be confessed to the bishop?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

 

I'm guessing that "procreative capacity" is a (terrible) euphemism for sex and/or fooling around.  If it's not, his statement would mean that doctors or others who "tamper" with peoples' ability to have kids need to talk with their Bishops.  

 

Considering the Church's current liberal attitude towards birth control, I would be surprised that that quote would make it into the book if the latter interpretation is correct.

Edited January 25, 2014 by cinepro

[ERayR]

 

I had a question about something mentioned on page 72-73 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

 

"If our transgression includes tampering with the procreative capacity of another of

either gender, then there is a necessary confession beyond prayer. From His priesthood 

the Lord has designated the bishop to be the common judge. The bishop represents the 

Lord in extending forgiveness for the Church".

 

Does this include contraception or just invitro-fertilization?  Are there other ways

to tamper with one's procreative capacity that must be confessed to the bishop?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

 

I am not seen that it includes either.  Please point out where that comes from.  Perhaps somewhere in the piece that you haven't quoted?

[Rob Osborn]

I had a question about something mentioned on page 72-73 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

 

"If our transgression includes tampering with the procreative capacity of another of

either gender, then there is a necessary confession beyond prayer. From His priesthood 

the Lord has designated the bishop to be the common judge. The bishop represents the 

Lord in extending forgiveness for the Church".

 

Does this include contraception or just invitro-fertilization?  Are there other ways

to tamper with one's procreative capacity that must be confessed to the bishop?

 

Thanks,

Jim

That is some strange language. The first thing that comes to my mind (and its quite strange indeed) is someone kidnapping a person, drugging them and then removing part or all of their sexual reproductive organs.

[Calm]

I had a question about something mentioned on page 72-73 of "Mine Errand from the Lord" 

by Boyd K. Packer.

Is there some reason why you did not provide a link?

https://www.lds.org/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/intimacy-in-marriage?lang=eng&country=afe

[nebula]

That is some strange language. The first thing that comes to my mind (and its quite strange indeed) is someone kidnapping a person, drugging them and then removing part or all of their sexual reproductive organs.

I would definitely feel the need to confess that!

[The Nehor]

That is some strange language. The first thing that comes to my mind (and its quite strange indeed) is someone kidnapping a person, drugging them and then removing part or all of their sexual reproductive organs.

 

Pretty sure a few silent prayers can deal with that.

 

It is strange language. If tampering is taken to mean arousal then all of my old girlfriends need to see the Bishop about some kisses. Judging by their reaction I need to see the Bishop too.

[Calm]

When you tamper with something, you damage it, change it in a negative way...I wonder if he means physically only (could be interfering with another's chastity down to convincing them that an unnecessary hysterectomy sp? Is necessary...abuse that interfere with a healthy married sex life might count as well.

[Calm]

Definition of TAMPER

1

:  to carry on underhand or improper negotiations (as by bribery)

2

a :  to interfere so as to weaken or change for the worse —used with with <did not want to tamper with tradition>

b :  to try foolish or dangerous experiments —used with with

c :  to render something harmful or dangerous by altering its structure or composition <was charged with tampering with consumer products>

[Storm Rider]

I think Elder Packer is trying to be gentle and does not feel the need to get too graphic to explain a point. The creative process among most adults is rather easy to comprehend the topic. How does one tamper with that process in a way that is outside of the bounds of known acceptance.

 

Extramarital sex, i.t. not with your wife/husband, is commonly understood to be a gross sin because it breaks the commitment/commandment of chastity. All sexual activity outside of marriage is understood to not be acceptable and when we violate this teaching we should discuss that out bishop at Elder Packer's direction.

 

I don't see any need to perform logical somersaults to confuse his very simple teaching. 

[theplains]

Definition of TAMPER

1

:  to carry on underhand or improper negotiations (as by bribery)

2

a :  to interfere so as to weaken or change for the worse —used with with <did not want to tamper with tradition>

b :  to try foolish or dangerous experiments —used with with

c :  to render something harmful or dangerous by altering its structure or composition <was charged with tampering with consumer products>

 

Thank you for the link you provided to the Eternal Marriage Student Manual.  I had not

seen that.

 

Would using a condom be consider tampering with the capacity to procreate since it satisfies

definition [a] an interference in procreation and a modification of [c] not to render harmful or

dangerous but rather render neutral?

 

I saw in the Improvement Era, June 1969 that birth control is portrayed as an apostate

conduct. It begins in the last paragraph on page 43 and then continues to the next page.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[thesometimesaint]

Thank you for the link you provided to the Eternal Marriage Student Manual.  I had not

seen that.

 

Would using a condom be consider tampering with the capacity to procreate since it satisfies

definition [a] an interference in procreation and a modification of [c] not to render harmful or

dangerous but rather render neutral?

 

I saw in the Improvement Era, June 1969 that birth control is portrayed as an apostate

conduct. It begins in the last paragraph on page 43 and then continues to the next page.

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

We even has some writings of Apostles that claim that not having at least 13 children will damn you to hell. However for the last few decades the Church has taken the stance that we should have children but the number and spacing of those children is between us(the couple) and God.

[rpn]

The official church handbook advises against permanent means of birth control, and leaves decisions of when and how many to a married couple.    The language is speaking of intentionally arousing sexual feelings and/or not abandoning whatever one is doing once one knows that is what is happening, when we are not married, with either gender. (When was the quote originally said/written?)  

[mfbukowski]

That is some strange language. The first thing that comes to my mind (and its quite strange indeed) is someone kidnapping a person, drugging them and then removing part or all of their sexual reproductive organs.

Yes.

One would definitely have to.talk to the bishop

One should not force others to use drugs.  

Edited January 26, 2014 by mfbukowski

[Calm]

The official church handbook advises against permanent means of birth control, and leaves decisions of when and how many to a married couple.    The language is speaking of intentionally arousing sexual feelings and/or not abandoning whatever one is doing once one knows that is what is happening, when we are not married, with either gender. (When was the quote originally said/written?)

Possibly 1996, but probably earlier. That is the date of the book referenced in my link.

[djones]

The church isn't against in vitro fertilization. It says it's ok even in the handbook, but it doesn't condone it if the sperm is from a stranger and not the husband.

[rchorse]

For whatever reason, I read that as referring to sex change operations for both the person performing and receiving the surgery. It's really the only way the quote makes sense for me.

[The Nehor]

I don't see any need to perform logical somersaults to confuse his very simple teaching.

No need but it is more fun this way.