What About Those "good" R-Rated Movies?

[strappinglad]

I find it odd that it is OK to watch folks being shot/blown up etc. in a good movie, but horror of horrors if there is a bare back side or front side or side side .I get confused as to what is more " immoral" . Apparently a good clean pistol shot is more moral than for someone to swear . I don't accuse others because I too find the m word and the f word and the other alphabet words more offensive than " A Fistful of Dollars " type violence. It's just strange.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I find it odd that it is OK to watch folks being shot/blown up etc. in a good movie, but horror of horrors if there is a bare back side or front side or side side .I get confused as to what is more " immoral" . Apparently a good clean pistol shot is more moral than for someone to swear . I don't accuse others because I too find the m word and the f word and the other alphabet words more offensive than " A Fistful of Dollars " type violence. It's just strange.

It is simple War movies do cause men to fight in wars. War...OH the horror!

But nude movies, (I speak of "R"...won't even address something higher) cause many into reliving what they are seeing. It stirs up feelings that can and will lead us down a more dangerous path than War...War is wanted by none so such ideas we can overcome. In the case of sex scenes, bring out emotions that are good if living within God's will.

[Robert F. Smith]

An LDS member and I were talking about recent movies that we've seen. When I mentioned a particular film, HE almost gasped, "Isn't that R-rated? We don't watch R-rated movies."

I then asked, "Even the good ones?"

"There are no good R-rated movies."

I was amazed. So you've never seen, "Glory? Schindler's List? Passion of the Christ? The King's Speech? Saving Private Ryan? Porky's 1, 2 or 3?"

Being someone with too much time on his hands, I've done some research on the issue and there seems to be some question as to whether the R-rating is an explicit prohibition or merely a "guideline". Now, I realize that for many saints, there is no distinction between the two but that's not the point of this thread.

My question is do "good Mormons" EVER watch R-rated movies? And if so, under what circumstances is an R-rated movie appropriate? And could those circumstances possibly include The Hangover 3, which is next up on my Netflix queue?

I know Mormons who will watch "R" rated films, but who are selective.

 

Some are "R" rated due to violence, and not so much for the harsh language or soft porn.

 

I am also very selective: Since I take Jesus and biblical scholarship seriously, I did see "The Passion," but I would not recommend it to most due to the extreme violence -- excessive even by realistic standards (and I'm no shrinking violet, being a karate-ka and former Marine who saw frontline combat).  I would say the same of "Apocalypto," which was beautifully done, but a bit violent for most.  I recommend it to those who want to understand what ancient Maya civilization was actually like on the eve of the Conquista.  Both films sought realism from experts.

[Robert F. Smith]

There is always this perspective - if you found out Jesus was visiting member's homes and he would be coming to your place, would you be embarrassed if he wandered over to you movie collection? Or perhaps a more realistic example were if an apostle were coming to you home, would you hide anything? 

Supreme Court justices came down with a decision that in order not to be declared pornography, there had to be some sort of artistic or socially redeeming value to it.  However, to reach that conclusion they had to watch some truly rank and worthless stuff.  I wonder if they were embarrassed, or just bored by it?

[Paddy]

In Australia I think the rating system is different. We rarely hear anything preached to us about not seeing R rated movies. Basically there is not movies that are prohibited to the saints here.

Having said that I did see the first R rated movie I have seen in years yesterday. I went with a member of the bishopric to see wolf of Wall Street. That is the only R rated movie at the cinemas at the moment. I can see why it was rated R. It was a little inappropriate.

Paddy

[BlueDreams]

I find it odd that it is OK to watch folks being shot/blown up etc. in a good movie, but horror of horrors if there is a bare back side or front side or side side .I get confused as to what is more " immoral" . Apparently a good clean pistol shot is more moral than for someone to swear . I don't accuse others because I too find the m word and the f word and the other alphabet words more offensive than " A Fistful of Dollars " type violence. It's just strange.

 

I'm actually more effected by violence and excess cussing than nudity and most sex scenes. But it depends the violence. Avengers.....that's some fun violence and not very realistic. Pan's Labyrinth near the beginning with a bottle and some dude's face....I still feel a little sick at the memory. 

 

But to be honest, I hadn't seen a rated R movie up until this Xmas since before my mission. I realized I had become suddenly more sensitive to depictions and talk right after my endowment when I read this vapid article that I couldn't make it through, because it just felt wrong. It became more and more that way throughout my mish. It took me a while to ease into TV and my sensitivity level is a lot higher than it used to be when it comes to TV. I couldn't get too far into the Walking Dead for that reason and quit watching Futurama even though I do love nonsense humor. I had my first moments of watching a few shows and couldn't finish them because of the amount of sex, violence, language, crassness, or all of the above. The R movie I did watch was not on purpose. It said pg-13 on the TV....I thought the amount of sex and nudity was odd for the rating...but it didn't pester me too badly. Looked it up, realized the TV was wrong (this wasn't edited, it was on the movie channels), but was already 2/3 of the way through... so I finished it. I just wish I'd chosen Cloud Atlas over the B movie if I was going to break my trend. 

 

But overall, it's not a rule I feel like is set in stone. I watched R ratings before my mish/endowment. It's a personal thing that I probably won't keep to all my life. Just like I don't drink caffeine usually, but wouldn't feel super guilty or anything if I did. That stated I will consistently be more cautious about what I watch than I was beforehand.

 

I think it's important to note that just because a film portrays adult situations, it doesn't necessarily glorify them. There's a big difference between, say, Inglourious Basterds and Saw. A reasonably intelligent adult with a firm grasp on the difference between fantasy and reality should be able to distinguish the good from the bad and enjoy accordingly.

 

 

Ironically Inglorious Bastards is one of the few R rated movies that I really do regret seeing (Never saw Saw, I hate just about every scary movie/horror film). The violence felt senseless, the language was excessive, and the only take away message was vengence is oh so good....may they all burn. It didn't sit right, even then.

 

With luv,

BD 

[Glenn101]

To each his own. I am not going to try to tell anyone what movies to watch and what not to watch. I do not watch anything I would not want my 7 year old granddaughter to see. There is no telling when she may pop into the room.

 

I do not care for gratuitous violence or graphic sex. I don't care for "revenge" movies, where the "good guy" is "driven" to horrific acts because of some great injustice perpetrated on him, family, or friend(s).

 

I find myself gravitating to movies that have moral underpinnings such as "Second Hand Lions" which was able to do so without sex and gratuitous violence. I endure movies like "The Junior Detective Agency" because my granddaughter loves it and wants me to watch it with her. (I can only handle that about once a month.) Her father bought the movie for her as revenge for me making him and his siblings watch maybe the worst western movies ever made, i.e. "Captain Apache" starring Lee Van Cleef.

 

If I realize that a movie is teaching a pernicious doctrine, I turn it off, no matter how much I may be into the story line. I may well be the dullest person that posts on this forum, but I am comfortable in that dullness.

 

Glenn

 

[Storm Rider]

We are trying to teach people to follow the Holy Spirit in all things. Upon thinking about it and it feels okay, then go. 

 

I saw Brave Heart and I think it was rated "R"; it remains one of my all time favorite films even knowing it is not a historically accurate film.  

[mormonnewb]

To each his own. I am not going to try to tell anyone what movies to watch and what not to watch. I do not watch anything I would not want my 7 year old granddaughter to see. There is no telling when she may pop into the room.

Glenn

Thank you for piping into the conversation. I was beginning to think that the board had gone all "Sunstone" on me. As for your personal rule, there have been times when I wished I had a similar rule; like when my young sons walk in the room and catch me watching Family Guy. "What the deuce?"

I'm going to assume that your rule doesn't apply to reading material as well since there is less chance of her sneaking up behind you and READING something inappropriate.

[PtolemyGlenn]

I'm not a Mormon but as a Christan I try my best to avoid films with unnecessary nudity and sex. Excessive swearing and films whixh mock my beliefs and values. Violence is a case by case depending how violent especially those where torture is the next thrill scare ie Saw, Hostel. I have bent the rules with the Walking Dead, I only do so as its not just always about the violence.. And case by case with films that promote sin as good. Ie I have seen Harry Potter (rather dull) but would not encourage God's people that promote withcraft as good.

I dont know if its just because my dad is getting on in years but it is quite comical to see him say "Oh pleas was that really needed" in regards to films with sex scenes. ( mind you he is agnostic and I would never class him as conservative. )

[rpn]

The R rating is not even officially a guideline any more ---- the new (seven years by now?) strength of the youth pamphlet language suggests that members figure out for themselves whether the content and setting will impede their spirituality.  

 

I suspect, without knowing, that because more than half of church members don't even live under the USA movie rating system, and the standards of the usa movie raters are getting lower and lower and/or more about a word or violence, without considering the context --- if you watch a 1980's r-rated movie, it may not seem much different from a PG-13 movie you saw this year --- lds leaders felt that it was folly to trust or defer to a movie rating system.   This plays out in real life by watching content that is not consistent with gospel standards, and saying "but it is PG or PG-13".  The use of the rating system gave people excuses that the new standards rightly return to the member.

[CV75]

An LDS member and I were talking about recent movies that we've seen. When I mentioned a particular film, HE almost gasped, "Isn't that R-rated? We don't watch R-rated movies."

I then asked, "Even the good ones?"

"There are no good R-rated movies."

I was amazed. So you've never seen, "Glory? Schindler's List? Passion of the Christ? The King's Speech? Saving Private Ryan? Porky's 1, 2 or 3?"

Being someone with too much time on his hands, I've done some research on the issue and there seems to be some question as to whether the R-rating is an explicit prohibition or merely a "guideline". Now, I realize that for many saints, there is no distinction between the two but that's not the point of this thread.

My question is do "good Mormons" EVER watch R-rated movies? And if so, under what circumstances is an R-rated movie appropriate? And could those circumstances possibly include The Hangover 3, which is next up on my Netflix queue?

I vote for a) it's a guideline; b) to follow the Spirit as to whether to watch it only if you have a question as to whether you should or not -- this goes for movies of any rating. Also: c) don't go highly recommending those you watched based on b) since that is too sacred to share (Ha-Ha, not really--it's just that just an answer from God that was meant for you may not be a good answer for someone else).

Edited January 28, 2014 by CV75

[wtrdog]

This lends to the discussion being had here: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/62354-race-and-the-preisthood-new-topic-addition-and-bom-verses/page-11

 

All too often culture is conflated with doctrine.  You shouldn't be lazily relying on the prophets for your spiritual welfare.  And it is most certainly lazy.  I can show you plenty of PG or PG13 movies which are far worse than a certain R rated movie.  Quit trying to live the letter of the law, especially commandments which don't even exist, you should be following the spirit of the law, which is harder and requires you to actually filter the content you take into your mind and be honest with yourself about whether it's appropriate or not.

[Tacenda]

This lends to the discussion being had here: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/62354-race-and-the-preisthood-new-topic-addition-and-bom-verses/page-11

All too often culture is conflated with doctrine. You shouldn't be lazily relying on the prophets for your spiritual welfare. And it is most certainly lazy. I can show you plenty of PG or PG13 movies which are far worse than a certain R rated movie. Quit trying to live the letter of the law, especially commandments which don't even exist, you should be following the spirit of the law, which is harder and requires you to actually filter the content you take into your mind and be honest with yourself about whether it's appropriate or not.

I have in laws that won't see an R or most PG13's. I respect that, but dang there are some good ones out there. Ones like the movie I saw recently, Nebraska. I just wish the movie producers wouldn't cave into what they think sells by putting in some "f" words, and sexual inuendo. I always do my research, well I try to, if I'm going to an R. There are websites for that, thank goodness. And there's always waiting till they are on regular cable. Minus the swearing etc. I wanted to see "The Heat" with Sandra Bullock but just can't, since hearing how bad the swearing is, and my standards are way down compared to what it use to be. But I'm with you, some PG13 can be as bad as an R, for all kinds of reasons.

[wtrdog]

I have in laws that won't see an R or most PG13's. I respect that, but dang there are some good ones out there. Ones like the movie I saw recently, Nebraska. I just wish the movie producers wouldn't cave into what they think sells by putting in some "f" words, and sexual inuendo. I always do my research, well I try to, if I'm going to an R. There are websites for that, thank goodness. And there's always waiting till they are on regular cable. Minus the swearing etc. I wanted to see "The Heat" with Sandra Bullock but just can't, since hearing how bad the swearing is, and my standards are way down compared to what it use to be. But I'm with you, some PG13 can be as bad as an R, for all kinds of reasons.

 

I know of PG movies with full frontal nudity.  Kids In Mind is a good site for a real indepth look at the content of a movie.  They literally count the instances of profanity, nudity, innuendo, violence, etc.  If you can't watch Schindler's List because it's rated R then you darn sure better not visit the Holocaust Museum either.  And really you ought to avoid studying history at all. 

[Tacenda]

I know of PG movies with full frontal nudity.  Kids In Mind is a good site for a real indepth look at the content of a movie.  They literally count the instances of profanity, nudity, innuendo, violence, etc.  If you can't watch Schindler's List because it's rated R then you darn sure better not visit the Holocaust Museum either.  And really you ought to avoid studying history at all. 

Funny you mentioned Schindler's List.  That's probably the one that broke my no "R" mold.  Movies like this are so compelling, they are needed.  Of course it was so hard to watch the scene of them going into the gas chamber, and so inhumane to strip them down and steal their clothing, gold teeth, etc.  Society needed to see that film for what it was.  There are plenty of films like that.  For instance King's Speech, and as someone has mentioned, even though it wasn't a true story, things in it happen in prison, the movie "Shawshank Redemption".  So many, many movies that have heart, or compel people to change for the good.  And then there are the fluff movies, that grate on me.        

[thesometimesaint]

There is always this perspective - if you found out Jesus was visiting member's homes and he would be coming to your place, would you be embarrassed if he wandered over to you movie collection? Or perhaps a more realistic example were if an apostle were coming to you home, would you hide anything? 

 

I would be embarrassed. Not for the contents of the movies, but for the obscene prices they are.

[Rivers]

I think it is best to stay away from the vast majority of R rated movies. It is a good general guideline in my opinion. I used to look at screenit.com all the time when it was free and that opened my eyes as to how terrible some r rated movies are. Especially the raunchy r rated comedies that are so popular these days. I think it's sad that that garbage gets made and that so many people pay money for it.

But I agree that some r rated movies aren't all that bad and are actually uplifting. But those are a big exception.

[Freedom]

What about movies you allow to be shown at a church activity or if your children have a bunch of member friends over. My standard for any church activity is general, no swearing and no sexuality. A bit tough, but I have found it easier simply not to allow movies at any church function. When friends are over, I have my kids let the parents know before hand the movies we may be watching. I have one family who is strongly opposed to Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, for example. 

[Flyonthewall]

I don't like R rated movies mainly for the swearing. The F-bomb is like a slap in the face when I hear it.

Most sex and nudity is simply gratuitous, and is not needed at all, IMHO.

I check most movies I see on the IMDB - it has a Parent's section where it lays out all sex/nudity, violence/gore, Profanity, Alcohol/Drugs/Smoking, and Frightening/Intense scenes included in the movie.

I believe to "Don't see R rated movies" has always been counsel given, not a commandment. Some have viewed it like a commandment but is really simply a guideline.

There are tools out there for each of us to make an informed decision on whether to see any movie, let alone R movies.

[mfbukowski]

I think the prohibition, insofar as there is one, is to be taken as a warning to beware of what you put into your head.

 

There are images, once in there, just won't go away.  Being a rough tough survivor of the '60's convert who had been around the block several hundred times, I figured that seeing an R rated movie was absolutely something I would do anytime I felt like it.  I could take it.  I had seen it all- a million times over.  Heck I had been a cab driver in LA during college and was a former yippie hard-drinking, hard-carouser.

 

I went to a movie called "Seven" about the seven deadly sins.  Someone was killed by means of each of the seven deadly sins.  I couldn't get those images out of my head.  Horrible horrible stuff!

 

Now I think twice, do a lot of research, and then make an informed decision.  I think it's a great guideline.

 

If you never go to an R rated movie in your whole life, there are a LOT of nasty things you will not see, know about, or have in your head.  You will be less tempted and won't feel like you need a shower after leaving the theater.

 

I discourage my kids from R rated movies for that reason.  But guess what?  Like everyone, "they have their agency".  Let them put that stuff into their heads if they want to.  To me it's not worth the risk because some of them are "good movies". 

 

Who cares?  Is your life going to be worse because you missed a "good movie"?  Roll the dice....

[mfbukowski]

I would be embarrassed. Not for the contents of the movies, but for the obscene prices they are.

That's another issue.  You pay through the nose and come out feeling like you want to take a shower after seeing the movie.  Wonderful stuff!

[saemo]

My favorite R-rated film is Pan's Labyrinth. If you havn't seen it, you should add it to your queue! It's a dark fairytale, Spanish with subtitles.

...and depressing. Beautifully made film. But I don't like stories where the main theme is one of adults being abusive of children!

[saemo]

Don't forget the "patriot" staring Mel Gibson.  

Spoiler alert!

They win.

[saemo]

There is always this perspective - if you found out Jesus was visiting member's homes and he would be coming to your place, would you be embarrassed if he wandered over to you movie collection? Or perhaps a more realistic example were if an apostle were coming to you home, would you hide anything?

WWJW?