I Always Knew That There Was A God...

[changed]

Despite all that Korihor said... he ends by saying

 I always knew that there was a God. Alma 30:52

I wasn't always a member of the church, when I was in my "rebellious" years, I also always knew there was a God - even though I was not raised in the church, was not a member of any church (ever), my conscience testified of God.  On the outside I put on a front, and pretended not to know some things, rationalized/justified different philoophies etc. etc. but on the inside, just like Korihor, I knew what was true and what was not. 

we all have a conscience. 

(Guide to the Scriptures | C Conscience.:Entry)

 CONSCIENCE.  See also Light, Light of Christ

The inner sense of right and wrong, coming from the Light of Christ in all men (Moro. 7:16).  We are born with a natural capacity to distinguish between right and wrong because of the Light of Christ that is given to every person (D&C 84:46).  This faculty is called conscience.  The possession of it makes us responsible beings.  Like other faculties, our consciences may be deadened through sin or misuse.

The scribes and Pharisees were convicted by their own conscience, John 8:9.  Their conscience also bears witness, Rom. 2:14–15. Apostates have their conscience seared with a hot iron, 1 Tim. 4:2.  Men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil, 2 Ne. 2:5.  King Benjamin had a clear conscience before God, Mosiah 2:15.  The Nephites were filled with joy, having peace of conscience, Mosiah 4:3.  Zeezrom was harrowed up under a consciousness of his own guilt, Alma 14:6.  We are given joy or remorse of conscience according to our desires, Alma 29:5.  A punishment and a just law bring remorse of conscience, Alma 42:18. The Spirit of Christ is given to every man that he may know good from evil, Moro. 7:16. Each individual should have the free exercise of conscience, D&C 134:2.  I have a conscience void of offense, D&C 135:4.  We claim the privilege of worshiping God according to the dictates of our own conscience, A of F 1:11.

So, how many of you believe everyone has the light of Christ, everyone has a conscience, that everyone "knows"? 
 

[Ahab]

Knowing there is a God is a matter of knowing there is a supreme kind of being among all kinds of beings that exist.

 

Knowing which kind of being is the supreme kind of being is a matter of knowing which kind among all is that one.

 

I think we all know there is one, but some of us are still trying to figure out which kind is really it.

[The Nehor]

I don't think we can generalize Korihor's statement.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I have always known there is a God, from birth. The only faith I had to have in relation to this knowledge, was to have faith in his promises.

[Stargazer]

 

Despite all that Korihor said... he ends by saying

 I always knew that there was a God. Alma 30:52

I wasn't always a member of the church, when I was in my "rebellious" years, I also always knew there was a God - even though I was not raised in the church, was not a member of any church (ever), my conscience testified of God.  On the outside I put on a front, and pretended not to know some things, rationalized/justified different philoophies etc. etc. but on the inside, just like Korihor, I knew what was true and what was not. 

we all have a conscience. 

So, how many of you believe everyone has the light of Christ, everyone has a conscience, that everyone "knows"? 

 

 

 

I believe that everyone (with perhaps some notable exceptions -- psychopaths, perhaps?) has the light of Christ, or in other words, a conscience.  I don't believe that this conscience rises to the level of knowledge that there is a God.  I answered NO on your poll.

 

My earliest memories about God is my great grandmother reading the Bible and reading the Bible to me.  I never joined a church until I joined the LDS church at age 14, however.  I went to meeting a few times in a few different churches, including Church of the Brethren (my gt grandmother's church), a Baptist congregation a few times (my stepmother's parents attended that one and so she took me for Christmas and Easter, which was the only times she ever went, mostly), and what I think was an Episcopal church, or maybe Catholic, I don't really know.

 

I was never a rebellious sort, and my parents didn't have a particular religion I could rebel against, so I was unchurched, but something told me that there was a God, and that He was concerned for me in some way that I couldn't identify.  When I was in 8th grade He pulled me into the Church. 

 

I don't think that atheists, in general, know there is a God.  Perhaps some of them do, or some of them are hoping there isn't one.

[changed]

I don't think we can generalize Korihor's statement.

I tend to think we're all pretty similar to one another...

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man...1 Corinthians 10:13

 

[changed]

I think we all know there is one...

I think so too.

 

I have always known there is a God, from birth. The only faith I had to have in relation to this knowledge, was to have faith in his promises.

Yea, there's a big difference between knowing someone exists, and trusting or having faith in them.... or perhaps it's more to do with having faith in ourself - knowing where we fit into the big picture?  They say there is a point in every game where the loser stops trying to win, and instead comes up with excuses justifying and excusing their loss (my knee hurts, the umpire is unfair, this turf is too slippery, it's too hot out etc. etc.)  I think there's many who believe they can't win... "It's too good to be true", as if "goodness" is all false, and can never be true.

 

I believe that everyone (with perhaps some notable exceptions -- psychopaths, perhaps?) has the light of Christ, or in other words, a conscience.  I don't believe that this conscience rises to the level of knowledge that there is a God.  I answered NO on your poll.

 

My earliest memories about God is my great grandmother reading the Bible and reading the Bible to me.  I never joined a church until I joined the LDS church at age 14, however.  I went to meeting a few times in a few different churches, including Church of the Brethren (my gt grandmother's church), a Baptist congregation a few times (my stepmother's parents attended that one and so she took me for Christmas and Easter, which was the only times she ever went, mostly), and what I think was an Episcopal church, or maybe Catholic, I don't really know.

 

I was never a rebellious sort, and my parents didn't have a particular religion I could rebel against, so I was unchurched, but something told me that there was a God, and that He was concerned for me in some way that I couldn't identify.  When I was in 8th grade He pulled me into the Church. 

 

I don't think that atheists, in general, know there is a God.  Perhaps some of them do, or some of them are hoping there isn't one.

The light of Christ testifies of all that is good - especially of God.  It allows us to know right from wrong, and to deny Christ, or to deny God is definately wrong, and goes against the light of Christ.  I believe there is something that tells everyone there is a God.

Edited December 20, 2013 by changed

[Nofear]

Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light. (D&C 93:31)

While not everybody may recognize or understand what the source of light is, it is "plainly manifest" and accessible to every accountable human.

[bluebell]

How can anyone pretend or even believe they know whether or not every atheist in existence knows deep down there is a God?

I don't understand how anyone could answer this poll.

[changed]

How can anyone pretend or even believe they know whether or not every atheist in existence knows deep down there is a God?

I don't understand how anyone could answer this poll.

It's a question about the nature of the light of Christ, who it applies to, and what it teaches.  Everyone knows that rape, murder, stealing, lying etc. etc. are evil because everyone is directed by the same light of Christ... I believe that in the same vein, everyone also knows it is wrong to deny the existence of their Heavenly Father.

No one likes to be called a liar - and of coarse, if confronted most will deny being dishonest, but dishonesty is a reality. 

Before I joined the church, I was always surprised at how easily you could lie to someone, I was surprised that no one confronted me about it...   So now, on the other side, I'll say it.  I think all the atheists are lying when they claim they don't believe God exists.  Sorry, but that's how I see it.

Edited December 20, 2013 by changed

[changed]

While not everybody may recognize or understand what the source of light is, it is "plainly manifest" and accessible to every accountable human.

 Good scripture! 

[bluebell]

It's a question about the nature of the light of Christ, who it applies to, and what it teaches.  Everyone knows that rape, murder, stealing, lying etc. etc. are evil because everyone is directed by the same light of Christ... I believe that in the same vein, everyone also knows it is wrong to deny the existence of their Heavenly Father.

No one likes to be called a liar - and of coarse, if confronted most will deny being dishonest, but dishonesty is a reality. 

Before I joined the church, I was always surprised at how easily you could lie to someone, I was surprised that no one confronted me about it...   So now, on the other side, I'll say it.  I think all the atheists are lying when they claim they don't believe God exists.  Sorry, but that's how I see it.

 

I completely disagree that their dishonesty is a reality.  It's your opinion, and nothing more.

 

Just because everyone has access to the light of Christ, does not mean they have any idea what it is or where it comes from.  A person can understand that murder is wrong without knowing why. 

 

This is why men cannot sin in ignorance (as the scriptures clearly teach).    

[changed]

I completely disagree that their dishonesty is a reality.  It's your opinion, and nothing more.

 

Just because everyone has access to the light of Christ, does not mean they have any idea what it is or where it comes from.  A person can understand that murder is wrong without knowing why. 

 

This is why men cannot sin in ignorance (as the scriptures clearly teach).    

OK - I'll concede that the light of Christ can be deadened through misuse, can be  ill-informed or ill-trained - but just as a person understands murder is wrong without knowing why, we also know that God is real without knowing why. 

Atheists say believers are liars - they call the prophets liars, and the apostles liars, and the scriptures a lie, and every spiritual experience that anyone has ever had a lie... They think they know what we believe, and what we have experienced, and what is inside our head...  so they get to call us liars, and we can't call them liars?  Sorry, but someone here is not telling the truth. I know what I know, I have experienced what I have experienced - I am not insane, I have no health issues, I am well educated, gainfully employed (I'm an engineering professor).  I'm tired of being called a liar, of being called uneducated by people who are themselves uneducated, I'm tired of having the religious things I say purposefully twisted and called evil ... and then what, all the Christians are supposed to "turn the other cheek", smile, nod, return love for railing ... I know, Christians are stronger, we are more polite, we don't lose our temper, we're not "easily offended" throwing temper tantrums at ever little insult, we take it all with a smile -  we're expected to help those who are ignorant but what is the best way to really help others? ... when is it appropriate to turn over the tables in the temple so to speak? 

The parents who spoil their children and are nice to them all the time and give their kids everything they want - who never scold, who never punish, who never tell their kids they are wrong - are these good parents?  The Christians who spoil everyone around them, and tell them what they want, are they good Christians?

Before I joined the church, I needed someone to be loving and nice to me - but I also needed someone to slap me in the face so-to-speak.  I would have made progress much more quickly if those around me were a little less "nice". 

Edited December 20, 2013 by changed

[Calm]

"I'm tired of being called a liar"

So you think the solution is to call them liars? Why is it wrong for them to do it and not wrong for you?

"know what I know, I have experienced what I have experienced - I am not insane, I have no health issues, I am well educated, gainfully employed (I'm an engineering professor"

Is there any reason they shouldn't be able to say the same and thus be able to draw their own conclusions without being condemned for them without having the ability to really know what they know and how it makes sense to them?

Edited December 20, 2013 by calmoriah

[bluebell]

Atheists say believers are liars - they call the prophets liars, and the apostles liars, and the scriptures a lie, and every spiritual experience that anyone has ever had a lie... They think they know what we believe, and what we have experienced, and what is inside our head...  so they get to call us liars, and we can't call them liars?

 

First, not all atheists do that so you should probably stop painting with such a broad brush, and second, yep, that's exactly right.

Just because someone does something bad to you, does not mean you can do the same thing back to them. That is Christianity 101.

 

Sorry, but someone here is not telling the truth.

 

 

Just because someone is wrong, doesn't mean that they are lying.  

 

I know what I know, I have experienced what I have experienced - I am not insane, I have no health issues, I am well educated, gainfully employed (I'm an engineering professor).  I'm tired of being called a liar, of being called uneducated by people who are themselves uneducated, I'm tired of having the religious things I say purposefully twisted and called evil ... and then what, all the Christians are supposed to "turn the other cheek", smile, nod, return love for railing ...

 

 

Pretty much.  If you want to follow Christ, anyway.

 

I know, Christians are stronger, we are more polite, we don't lose our temper, we're not "easily offended" throwing temper tantrums at ever little insult, we take it all with a smile -  we're expected to help those who are ignorant but what is the best way to really help others? ... when is it appropriate to turn over the tables in the temple so to speak?

 

 

Christians are no such thing.  Not all of us anyway.  I see plenty of Christians who throw temper tantrums, who are not polite, who are not stronger than atheists, or Muslims, or any other belief system for that matter.

 

But as to when we can turn over the tables?  Well, Jesus did that because something holy was being desecrated by people who should have been protecting it.  Do you think atheists who call you a liar fit that bill?  

 

The parents who spoil their children and are nice to them all the time and give their kids everything they want - who never scold, who never punish, who never tell their kids they are wrong - are these good parents?  The Christians who spoil everyone around them, and tell them what they want, are they good Christians?

 

Not for us to say.  Just because people do things we disagree with, doesn't mean we get to condemn them.  Simply disagreeing with us or doing things in a way we disagree with is not the yardstick we should be using.

 

Before I joined the church, I needed someone to be loving and nice to me - but I also needed someone to slap me in the face so-to-speak.  I would have made progress much more quickly if those around me were a little less "nice"

 

.

That's fine for you.  But you are not everyone.  

[Calm]

"But as to when we can turn over the tables?  Well, Jesus did that because something holy was being desecrated by people who should have been protecting it.  Do you think atheists who call you a liar fit that bill?"

Good point, it wasn't the pagans, nonbelievers or atheists he cleansed the temple of. It was the believers who were belittling the sacredness of his Father's house not by providing appropriate animals for sacrifice but doing it in such a way that it was an abuse of their brethren...plus there was the lack of reverence for where they were standing (I believe they could have achieved the same thing by doing their work outside the walls). Seems to me a better analogy would be those who make a profit over and above what is fair in selling temple clothing and other items to attend as well as those who go to the temple and end up talking business and networking rather than focusing on the work of the Lord.

[BlueDreams]

Have a conscience and have the light of Christ? Yes definitely....even if it's often disregarded and lost in sin/choices. I remember watching a random doc on convicts on death row. One man had violently killed someone and instead of admitting that he did he, he disassociated with the actions. It couldn't really be him even though he knew it was. Apparently that was very common. There is something in us all that gives even a basic sense of good, even when we are doing evil that has little regard to theological bent. 

 

That everybody always believed in God (or a higher power)....I tend to take people by their words. If they say they don't believe in a god. Then they don't believe in a god. That said, I think there's some wiggle room and that often there is something that they sense is above them (sometimes, especially among agnostics). For example an athiest once began praying and following the example of a number of his Mormon co-workers....and began feeling more peace, love, betterment, etc. I don't think he ever came to believe in God, but he recognized something more from simple things that he hadn't previously. Another guy I knew went from agnosticism/intellectualizing the question of God to believing in God/Christ in 3 weeks. I watched it happen. I think the disbelief/uncertainty of believing a higher being can be more complex for a number of non-believers than first meets the eye. But this is based solely on a handful of experiences where I've seen the idea of god reactively removed or put at a distance or intellectualized. Not because they've never really had any experience of God ever, but because their current life choices/experiences don't give much space for believing in a higher power in a really messy world. 

 

But I would definitely hesitate to state that's the case with every athiest/agnostic/non-believer

With luv,

BD

[pogi]

Your definition of "know" and atheists definition of "know" probably don't line up.  I would tend to think that most atheists fall in line with the scientific notion that nothing can be known with 100% certainty, but everything is only probabilities.

 

I think a more appropriate question is, do atheists sense God's influence via the light of Christ or Holy Ghost?  I have no doubt they do, but rationalize it away as simply human emotion, much like the feelings a child has toward Santa Clause.

[Avatar4321]

I don't feel inclined to answer either way on this issue because I don't think all people are alike. I know some always knew.

 

But I know from my own experience that I didn't always know there was a God. My knowledge came line upon line by the testimony of the Spirit.

[Ahab]

OK - I'll concede that the light of Christ can be deadened through misuse, can be  ill-informed or ill-trained - but just as a person understands murder is wrong without knowing why, we also know that God is real without knowing why. 

Atheists say believers are liars - they call the prophets liars, and the apostles liars, and the scriptures a lie, and every spiritual experience that anyone has ever had a lie... They think they know what we believe, and what we have experienced, and what is inside our head...  so they get to call us liars, and we can't call them liars?  Sorry, but someone here is not telling the truth. I know what I know, I have experienced what I have experienced - I am not insane, I have no health issues, I am well educated, gainfully employed (I'm an engineering professor).  I'm tired of being called a liar, of being called uneducated by people who are themselves uneducated, I'm tired of having the religious things I say purposefully twisted and called evil ... and then what, all the Christians are supposed to "turn the other cheek", smile, nod, return love for railing ... I know, Christians are stronger, we are more polite, we don't lose our temper, we're not "easily offended" throwing temper tantrums at ever little insult, we take it all with a smile -  we're expected to help those who are ignorant but what is the best way to really help others? ... when is it appropriate to turn over the tables in the temple so to speak? 

The parents who spoil their children and are nice to them all the time and give their kids everything they want - who never scold, who never punish, who never tell their kids they are wrong - are these good parents?  The Christians who spoil everyone around them, and tell them what they want, are they good Christians?

Before I joined the church, I needed someone to be loving and nice to me - but I also needed someone to slap me in the face so-to-speak.  I would have made progress much more quickly if those around me were a little less "nice". 

You go, bro!  It's nice for me to know my frankness is helpful and would be appreciated by someone like you.  But, yes, we should still be nice, until we're at the point where we are fed up, and even though at that point we should still try to be patient and loving and forgiving, we can still call a spade a spade when we see one.

[The Nehor]

How can anyone pretend or even believe they know whether or not every atheist in existence knows deep down there is a God?

I don't understand how anyone could answer this poll.

 

I could if God told me they did. He has not.

[katherine the great]

This thread is making me laugh!  How can such sweeping conclusions about other people's thought processes be made when we cannot possibly know what goes in their minds?

[3DOP]

As it reads, an affirmative answer to the question would be saying that I think that at least two atheists know God exists. I could easily be wrong, but that is not what I think and for that reason I voted in the negative.

Edited December 21, 2013 by 3DOP

[3DOP]

How can anyone pretend or even believe they know whether or not every atheist in existence knows deep down there is a God?

I don't understand how anyone could answer this poll.

 

I don't understand how anyone could NOT answer, at least to themselves. The question is concise and easy. Surely we are qualified to say whether we think something or not. The Korihor thing provided a premise upon which some might think that atheists know there is a God. If you any reason you don't think that, the answer is no.

Edited December 21, 2013 by 3DOP

[bluebell]

I don't understand how anyone could NOT answer, at least to themselves. The question is concise and easy. Surely we are qualified to say whether we think something or not. The Korihor thing provided a premise upon which some might think that atheists know there is a God. If you any reason you don't think that, the answer is no.

You don't understand how anyone could NOT think they know how every atheist in the world really believes regardless of what they say they believe?

 

And you sincerely think that every atheist in the world either believes in God secretly, or doesn't?

 

You don't see a problem with assuming that all atheists believe the exact same thing and asking people to answer a question based on that premise?