Are All Paid Ministers Guilty Of Priestcraft?

[DavidB]

The LDS Church defines Priestcraft as:

Men preaching and setting themselves up for a light to the world that they may get gain and praise of the world; they do not seek the welfare of Zion (2 Ne. 26:29).

Elder Oak expounds on the subject:

The Desire of Our Hearts

The Book of Mormon illustrates this same principle in its definition of priestcraft, the sin committed by those who preach the gospel to gain personal advantage rather than to further the work of the Lord: “Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.” (2 Ne. 26:29; see also Alma 1:16.)

Priestcraft is not a sin that is committed solely on the basis of our desires because it involves acts. Those acts become sinful only when they are done with the wrong desire, to get gain or praise. The sin is in the desire, not in the act.

Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall

Another illustration of a strength that can become our downfall concerns charismatic teachers. With a trained mind and a skillful manner of presentation, teachers can become unusually popular and effective in teaching. But Satan will try to use that strength to corrupt teachers by encouraging them to gather a following of disciples. A Church teacher, Church Education System instructor, or Latter-day Saint university professor who gathers such a following and does this “for the sake of riches and honor” (Alma 1:16) is guilty of priestcraft. “Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion” (2 Ne. 26:29).

Teachers who are most popular, and therefore most effective, have a special susceptibility to priestcraft. If they are not careful, their strength can become their spiritual downfall. They can become like Almon Babbitt, with whom the Lord was not pleased, because “he aspireth to establish his counsel instead of the counsel which I have ordained, even that of the Presidency of my Church; and he setteth up a golden calf for the worship of my people” (D&C 124:84).

Is a non-LDS paid minister, pastor, religious leader guilty of priestcraft because that person receives monies for their services as a ministering?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

You know my opinion... No, they are not.

[Freedom]

I have met many pastors of other faiths and I can identify only a very few who may have been guilty of this sin. Most often they were out preaching against other religions. But I see the dangers of being paid for service and I know of a few local churches who's services are designed to bring people through the doors of the church rather than through the gates of salvation. I can think of one in the City of Langley BC that is, in my opinion, a den of iniquity. But I would say that this church is the exception.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Is a non-LDS paid minister, pastor, religious leader guilty of priestcraft because that person receives monies for their services as a ministering?

No.

[Kenngo1969]

Insofar as they lead people to Christ, no.

[pogi]

The LDS Church defines Priestcraft as:

Men preaching and setting themselves up for a light to the world that they may get gain and praise of the world; they do not seek the welfare of Zion (2 Ne. 26:29).

Is a non-LDS paid minister, pastor, religious leader guilty of priestcraft because that person receives monies for their services as a ministering?

According to the definition you posted that is used by the church, the answer would be no.

Apparently, if they are not setting themselves up to get gain and praise of the world, and are seeking the welfare of Zion, then they are not practicing priestcraft though they may be paid for their services. It seems that intent has more to do with it than money.

Edited December 29, 2012 by pogi

[Garden Girl]

According to the definition you posted that is used by the church, the answer would be no.

Apparently, if they are not setting themselves up to get gain and praise of the world, and are seeking the welfare of Zion, then they are not practicing priestcraft though they may be paid for their services. It seems that intent has more to do with it then money.

I've known of many pastors who were truly committed to their congregation's spiritual welfare and preached accordingly... I have also known several who bordered on priestcraft... and one fully engaged IMO. Even some of the television evangelists walk a fine line.

But I see nothing wrong in general with a pastor receiving a salary if that is his chosen profession for which he/she has been educated , and has been hired to lead a particular congregation. Others have started their own non-denominational congregations with the best of intentions, but some of course have questionable motivations. So I agree, I think the motivations and actions determine where a particular pastor stands in regard to priestcraft.

GG

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

some of the television evangelists walk a fine line.

A-friggin'-men.

http://youtu.be/7dhJxMmkqmY?t=30s

Edited December 29, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[Damien the Leper]

No.

[rpn]

The answer is clearly no --- many leaders in other faiths prepare people to hear the gospel at some point, and lead them to Christ. I don't know of any personally who are in it for either money or anything other than filling what they consider their calling to teach truth and bless lives. Our LDS leaders tell the world to bring the good of what they've been taught to investigation of the truth claims of the LDS church: that would seem to acknowledge that much in the religions of the world is good.

[Damien the Leper]

At the expense of possibly taking heat...I submit Benny Hinn as an appropriate candidate for priestcraft.

[mfbukowski]

How could they be guilty of Priestcraft if they don't have the priesthood?

[Lightbearer]

Yes, in many cases that is exactly what they are doing. Those who are not of our faith are not seeking the welfare of Zion! Because Zion is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I do not know of any other religion who promotes the welfare of Zion. So under that point I would say yes. I do not think any do knowingly... yet that is how it works out. Christ Himself declared: "They are all wrong..." you know the rest. It is a hard saying, but you either believe the Church is Zion or it is not. One cannot have it both ways.

[Senator]

Yes, in many cases that is exactly what they are doing. Those who are not of our faith are not seeking the welfare of Zion! Because Zion is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I do not know of any other religion who promotes the welfare of Zion. So under that point I would say yes. I do not think any do knowingly... yet that is how it works out. Christ Himself declared: "They are all wrong..." you know the rest. It is a hard saying, but you either believe the Church is Zion or it is not. One cannot have it both ways.

Is the Church Zion?

Now there's a topic for discussion!!

[Stargazer]

Yes, in many cases that is exactly what they are doing. Those who are not of our faith are not seeking the welfare of Zion! Because Zion is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I do not know of any other religion who promotes the welfare of Zion. So under that point I would say yes. I do not think any do knowingly... yet that is how it works out. Christ Himself declared: "They are all wrong..." you know the rest. It is a hard saying, but you either believe the Church is Zion or it is not. One cannot have it both ways.

Both ways is the way it is. While on the one hand "Zion" is NOT The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, on the other, it IS.

One who earnestly seeks the spiritual and temporal welfare of the members of his or her congregation, is not practicing priestcraft. For example, a Catholic parish priest who selflessly serves the people of his parish all the days of his life is not suddenly going to find himself in spirit prison for practicing priestcraft. His fellow priest whose ambition was to reach the office of archbishop, and who used his parishioners and fellow priests unstintingly in order to attain that rank, irrespective of the welfare of those whom he was supposed to be serving, well, he might very well find himself in that box at the end of days.

[Robert F. Smith]

At the expense of possibly taking heat...I submit Benny Hinn as an appropriate candidate for priestcraft.

mfbukoski said:

How could they be guilty of Priestcraft if they don't have the priesthood?

Ordained ministers as well as local unordained preachers have virtual priesthood, and such a classification could be broadened to include non-Western religious leaders and teachers.

Some here may be too young to recall Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert, and certainly very few know of Amy Semple McPherson. Ego, lust, and pride brought them (and many others) down. Mormons are just as vulnerable to such weaknesses as non-Mormons, and several well-known figures crashed and burned despite their self-confidence that they knew "the truth." In the end, Warren Jeffs will have lots of company in Hell.

Here is a possible example of priestcraft right here in Utah, http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23544891&nid=148&s_cid=article-popular-5 .

Edited December 29, 2012 by Robert F. Smith

[Alan]

No is the answer.

But I would go further and say there are LDS leaders who are guilty of this sin in my view. Those who use their positions to build up their businesses etc.

And on this point I have to say I am rather uncomfortable with GA's writing and publishing books and receiving recompense. Paul H Dunn is a good example but there are many others.

[rongo]

When I was called as a bishop, my counselors and I had one week (Sunday to the next Sunday ---- curtain up) to completely staff a newly formed ward. Multiple presidencies, bunches of teachers, and everyone needed to be ready to go by Sunday. All of this while working our day jobs and spending time with our families.

This gave me a different perspective on paid ministers from other churches. It would certainly be nice and useful to be able to devote 40 hours a week to certain callings and be paid for it so there wasn't a need to work 40 hours at a day job, and this goes for other times, too, not just staffing a ward in one week. One could certainly do a lot more in the way of visiting congregants if one doesn't have a day job ---- if visiting and ministering *is* the day job. So, I'm a lot less judgmental about other churches who have paid full-time clergy.

However, one of the geniuses of the restored Church is what is accomplished, both on paper and less-tangibly, with a volunteer lay clergy. Through inspiration and guidance and budgeting of time and resources, the Lord's work is able to be accomplished even with leaders "moonlighting" in their callings and visits. It's actually better that way, because leaders remain grounded in the day-to-day realities of their congregants, without "ivory tower" isolation that professional paid clergy inevitably brings about.

[KevinG]

No is the answer.

But I would go further and say there are LDS leaders who are guilty of this sin in my view. Those who use their positions to build up their businesses etc.

And on this point I have to say I am rather uncomfortable with GA's writing and publishing books and receiving recompense. Paul H Dunn is a good example but there are many others.

Are you more comfortable with GAs writing books to supplement their income or taking more in stipends?

[Tacenda]

Actually I thought that was what tithing meant in the bible to support ministries and the Priest or Pastor so he could help the congregations almost 24/7. But the money stays within the parrish usually, besides going to charities and missionary work.

I do believe the LDS way is smart in that members stay active through fulfilling their callings. I've seen in other faiths where you are able to volunteer where you think your capabilities are. Then again callings help individuals grow.

[thesometimesaint]

No.

[KevinG]

C'mon folks! We are supposed to be outraged that anyone would take a thin dime in the course of ministering so the hypocricy of the Latter-day Saints can be revealed in the bright light of day.

You aren't playing along.

[thesometimesaint]

I'm sorry then. They and we are all filthy money grubbing scumbags.

[KevinG]

I'm sorry then. They and we are all filthy money grubbing scumbags.

There you go. Opiate of the masses and all that.

[MiserereNobis]

However, one of the geniuses of the restored Church is what is accomplished, both on paper and less-tangibly, with a volunteer lay clergy. Through inspiration and guidance and budgeting of time and resources, the Lord's work is able to be accomplished even with leaders "moonlighting" in their callings and visits. It's actually better that way, because leaders remain grounded in the day-to-day realities of their congregants, without "ivory tower" isolation that professional paid clergy inevitably brings about.

While I can understand the point you are trying to make, I'd like to counter by saying that Catholic priests do not find themselves in this "ivory tower" isolation of which you speak. In fact, if I may be so bold, a parish priest is most likely even more in the trenches, albeit in a different way. Yes, he does not have a wife and child, but he does have a job, and his job includes everything from counseling to economics. The priests I know spend WAY more than 40 hours a week at their "jobs." They work every weekend and holiday. They live in the rectory, which is right next to the church (or sometimes in the same building) and are always "on call" and get called often. They are hardly paid anything. Also, they hear confessions of all sins, which certainly helps them remain grounded in what is going on in the lives of their parishioners. They visit hospitals and prisons, the sick and the old. They give counsel. They teach classes. They work in the community.

The bottom line is that they have committed themselves full-time to God and do so by committing themselves full-time to helping His children. This should be applauded, not denigrated as priestcraft (I know you weren't doing that rongo, but I'm just wanting to make my point to others who are reading). Anyone who thinks that being a parish priest is easier than having a family and a "job" has never spent much time in a parish nor has spoken with many priests.

ETA: Also, in a Catholic parish, MANY ministries are run by lay volunteers. It's not like we sit around and do nothing while the priest does it all

Edited December 29, 2012 by MiserereNobis