MormonMason Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 If the Savior needs the help of the American military to defend Israel I think his power in scripture is vastly overrated.I have said nothing about the military, much less the Lord needing their help for anything. But, on the subject, eventually the military will get involved--depending upon which way the wind blows in the Middle East.
Damien the Leper Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Wasn't there a "wink, wink," when they read the letter?The letter was read about a month ago in the ward that I attend. Myself, the Elder's Quorum Pres. and the 1st Counselor of Bishopric each looked knowingly at each other and chuckled at the ridiculousness of the letter. Edited September 24, 2012 by Valentinus 1
Damien the Leper Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Would you rather he were blind?LOL...stop it, Volg!! Ha ha ha!
volgadon Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 The letter was read about a month ago in the ward that I attend. Myself, the Elder's Quorum Pres. and the 1st Counselor of Bishopric each looked knowingly at each other and chuckled and the ridiculousness of the letter.My wife and I have nearly walked out of Sunday School lessons which have gotten too political or jingoist. 2
Duncan Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Is it not prophesied that in the last days the WHOLE world will unite against Israel? Even unsophisticated old me can see a luming conflict where the world will turn quickly to condemn . Where's that unblemished calf when we need it?Spoiled by the Alberta meat crisis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if there isn't a whopper in my hand come cheap Whopper Wednesday boy oh boy, i'll you know be upset and I'll have to find Alberta on the map and you know figure something out!!! 1
MormonMason Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 I know what you are getting at, but we haven't noticed a huge difference. Even under a certain someone a few years ago who was sympathetic, there was still a lot of pressure on us. Roadmaps and whatnot. So, I'm not seeing a huge difference so far.I understand where you are coming from to a degree. You likely won't see a huge difference because one of the candidates is not in a place where he fully understands the big picture. That won't happen until he is in office, if in office he will be. I think that the so-called Roadmap is garbage and ignores the bigger picture. Neither side will be happy with it and that is why the situation is what it is. But, as someone I know frequently says, the land should be shared equally and belongs to both sides in the debate.The only way for an undivided Jerusalem to be set up as the capitol of the land of Palestine/Israel is for both sides to lay down arms and unite as a single nation. There will need to be compromises on both sides but I think that the current situation that exists between Israeli Arabs and other Israeli could be improved upon and made workable for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. "Roadmaps to peace" and pressuring Israel to set back their borders to pre-1967 alignments are stupid and will lead to nowhere but where they are. The so-called Palestinians need to lay down their Qassams before this process can begin.Of course, the leadership among the Gazans are out of hand and Abbas needs to "save face" just to keep his group together so they don't drop him off a building like they did to people in Gaza. But, I am positive that a good compromise position can be reached without pressure from the outside. There is a lot of mistrust on both sides of the fences but it does not have to be insurmountable. Of course, there is so much propaganda that many want Israel wiped off the map. What can be done about that I am uncertain of at the moment. But, I do not yet see the problem as being insurmountable.A person is needed who understands the situation and the cultural factors involved, someone who can be impartial and yet work to ensure that both sides have their real needs met. What America has supplied so far falls far short of that, I know. But, one of the candidates is not insistent on moving borders like the other one is. That should be considered a reprieve if not the ideal situation in the overall scheme of things.
Damien the Leper Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 My wife and I have nearly walked out of Sunday School lessons which have gotten too political or jingoist.It's nauseating when a lesson on the Book of Mormon turns toward politics and then a certain party(ies) comes under fire. I walked out last week. It's not worth all the hate mongering that takes place. 1
volgadon Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Spoiled by the Alberta meat crisis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if there isn't a whopper in my hand come cheap Whopper Wednesday boy oh boy, i'll you know be upset and I'll have to find Alberta on the map and you know figure something out!!!No idea what any of this means, but I still laughed. 1
Duncan Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) No idea what any of this means, but I still laughed.Blackstrap mentioned where is the unblemished calf and in the Canadian province of Alberta they are having a huge meat recall and so I was making reference to that! haha! Edited September 24, 2012 by Duncan 2
The Nehor Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 My wife and I have nearly walked out of Sunday School lessons which have gotten too political or jingoist.In the rare cases I have had this happen I quote scripture showing precedent for not going that way. It annoys them to no end and is fun too.
BCSpace Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Why do we as a Church do dumb things at the wrong time? With everything this nation has on the line, and the need to support an incredible candidate who is up against the most biased odds of our national media, why does the Church keep doing the most stupid thing by highlighting the very core issue we need to avoid. Sometime I wonder if any of our leaders ever step back, exercise an ounce of common sense and just THINK before they react!!!This exposure at the worst time is senseless and just goes to show our own ignorance and stupidity in common sense!!!Way too much focus on something that should have been a non issue.http://articles.chic...excommunicationI don't think this is doing something dumb. If we waited then that would conflict with D&C 121. On the other hand, there are some situations which would conflict with the wheat and the tares; pulling up some tender wheat in the process. There is a certain tension in every case.
Damien the Leper Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 I don't think this is doing something dumb. If we waited then that would conflict with D&C 121. On the other hand, there are some situations which would conflict with the wheat and the tares; pulling up some tender wheat in the process. There is a certain tension in every case.Section 121 deals with the apostasy of General Authorities.
Storm Rider Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 It is my thinking that the Church should continue to operate normally regardless of what the world of politics does or who is involved in that world. The Church is a voice moral integrity; it calls all to repentance and invites each individual to pursue a deeper, more intimate relationship with the Savior of the world. It is a clarion call to holiness, righteousness, and purity regardless of the vicissitudes of individuals or of society at large.
Calm Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Ominously, a 6 6 6 is the current harmony.The world is rebalanced to perfection now. 1
Calm Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Spoiled by the Alberta meat crisis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if there isn't a whopper in my hand come cheap Whopper Wednesday boy oh boy, i'll you know be upset and I'll have to find Alberta on the map and you know figure something out!!!Mmmm....Alberta beef....mmmmmm. 1
Calm Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Does anyone posting in the thread really believe that posting temple content on one's website is not appropriate cause for church discipline? 2
Calm Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 "Most of my family is true-believing Mormon, and they will be hurt by my probable excommunication for apostasy,"Now he thinks of his family? What about them being hurt by his own actions of ridiculing the Church and posting temple content? 2
Calm Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 We got articles all over the web showing how fellow brothers like some idiot Gordon at some other obscure website wants to be so diligent to expose this guy to Church authorities. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Does anyone posting in the thread really believe that posting temple content on one's website is not appropriate cause for church discipline?At the university where I work, it would result in discipline by the ethics committee, quite possibly dismissal. 1
3DOP Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Why do we as a Church do dumb things at the wrong time? With everything this nation has on the line, and the need to support an incredible candidate who is up against the most biased odds of our national media, why does the Church keep doing the most stupid thing by highlighting the very core issue we need to avoid. Sometime I wonder if any of our leaders ever step back, exercise an ounce of common sense and just THINK before they react!!!This exposure at the worst time is senseless and just goes to show our own ignorance and stupidity in common sense!!!Way too much focus on something that should have been a non issue.http://articles.chic...excommunicationIt would be a pretty sad commentary on the one true church if for the sake of electing a mere politician, it changed its disciplinary practices. As a Catholic, it would have been far more important to me in 1960 that the Catholic Church continue to be what she always was, than changing her ways or teachings in the hope of electing a Catholic in the United States to political office. 2
sheilauk Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Does anyone posting in the thread really believe that posting temple content on one's website is not appropriate cause for church discipline?And according to some reports, its not just that he posted temple content, which is bad enough, but he has openly stated that he sent material to fellow saints with the aim of shaking their faith. Surely, IF he is deliberately trying to lead people away and saying so, his Bishopric have to act and he has to have known that they would, if it was drawn to their attention. Did he hope to 'get away with it'? Or did he set out to provoke the Church? I know its not great timing, but I don't see how it can be ignored or action delayed just because of the presidential election. That would challenge the Church's neutrality stance. I assume that the gentleman would have made as much of a noise about it as he could, whenever he was challenged by the Church. I don't know his intentions and he may have acted in good faith (i'm sure he believes in what he is doing). I also think that his Bishopric are acting in good faith, as they think best, and that they have thought long and hard about it. I just don't see how they can ignore his actions, regardless of the timing. I don't think its right to call any of them stupid or thoughtless.
halconero Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 And according to some reports, its not just that he posted temple content, which is bad enough, but he has openly stated that he sent material to fellow saints with the aim of shaking their faith. Surely, IF he is deliberately trying to lead people away and saying so, his Bishopric have to act and he has to have known that they would, if it was drawn to their attention. Did he hope to 'get away with it'? Or did he set out to provoke the Church? I know its not great timing, but I don't see how it can be ignored or action delayed just because of the presidential election. That would challenge the Church's neutrality stance. I assume that the gentleman would have made as much of a noise about it as he could, whenever he was challenged by the Church. I don't know his intentions and he may have acted in good faith (i'm sure he believes in what he is doing). I also think that his Bishopric are acting in good faith, as they think best, and that they have thought long and hard about it. I just don't see how they can ignore his actions, regardless of the timing. I don't think its right to call any of them stupid or thoughtless.Agreed, mormonthink is an anti website hiding itself under the guise of being created by active members of the church. The man in question, says he doesn't even believe in the Church and is agnostic, but attends for cultural reasons and because that way he can be close to members. Several other mormonthink people say they stay so that they can essentially destroy people's testimony from the inside.I would be surprised if action wasn't taken.
Hamba Tuhan Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Did he hope to 'get away with it'?For a while, apparently. From his blog:'It’s funny that the adults are the ones playing pretend at church and the children are being honest. I find myself sighing and eye-rolling at the phrase-tossing of "Book of Mormon" this and "Joseph Smith" that. But I need to play stoic; switch on the poker face, so that, despite the flash of my cloth, I don’t stand out in character. Not yet'.'Attending is my cross to bear (one prior editor had to resign quietly when the church came for him, something I may find difficult to forestall in my case)'.'I don’t want anyone I meet in person to know I’m associated with, let alone managing editor at, MormonThink. I don't even want Pat to find it serendipitously -- It could get me in a sort of pickle and cut short my church activity'.Ironically, one of his blog posts about the presumed hazards of electing a Latter-day Saint to high public office is entitled 'Secrets breed lies'. Nothing like a bit o' self-delusion ... Edited September 24, 2012 by Hamba Tuhan 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) I bet the hits on his website go up.One can hope so. It's like reading a real-life version of Browning's 'My Last Duchess'. The speaker/blogger seems to be genuinely clueless regarding how fully he is revealing his 'temperament and character'.It reminds me of a website I stumbled upon and then used in one of my priests quorum lessons a few years back. A blogger had copied out his entire mission journal, presumably to demonstrate how dreadful the Church is and how horribly it had treated him as a missionary despite all his valiant sacrifices as a 'TBM'. Instead, the entries clearly reveal him as unworthy to have served in the first place, antagonistic toward authority, disobedient, lazy, consumed by inappropriate thoughts, unfamiliar with repentance, etc. After just a few paragraphs, one of the boys in the quorum insightfully commented, 'No wonder he left the Church. He never did anything he needed to to find out if it was true or not'. Edited September 24, 2012 by Hamba Tuhan 3
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