Mormon Feminism. What Is It All About?

[Rivers]

I recently listened to John Dehlin's interview with Ralph Hancock. Hancock is a critic of mormon liberalism. The two main issues discussed were homosexuality and feminism. I can understand the homosexuality issue. I have a lot of sympathy for that one. But the whole feminist issue is something I don't quite get.

In my experience growing up mormon, I haven't seens much gender inequality other than the obvious fact that men have the priesthood. But other than that I've always seen women as equals in the church. I have always seen my parents as equal partners in the home. And it seems to me that just about as many women are going to college and pursuing careers as men. Gerneral authorities have counciled women to get an education. Even in church, I have observed women making important contributions in ward council meetings.

Brother Hancock, in the interview, asked what it is that mormon feminists are asking for and I didn't hear a clear answer from John. Is it the priesthood that women want? Are mormon feminists against the doctrine that gender is part of our eternal identity as articulated in The Family: A Proclamation to the World? I like women, but maybe I haven't talked to enough of them. Maybe its because I am young. But I would like to be more enlightened about what mormon feminism is all about.

Even in a broader sense I always have to scratch my head when I hear people talk about the "war on women."

Edited January 17, 2013 by Rivers

[Ahab]

I recently listened to John Dehlin's interview with Ralph Hancock. Hancock is a critic of mormon liberalism. The two main issues discussed were homosexuality and feminism. I can understand the homosexuality issue. I have a lot of sympathy for that one. But the whole feminist issue is something I don't quite get.

In my experience growing up mormon, I haven't seens much gender inequality other than the obvious fact that men have the priesthood. But other than that I've always seen women as equals in the church. I have always seen my parents as equal partners in the home. And it seems to me that just about as many women are going to college and pursuing careers as men. Gerneral authorities have counciled women to get an education. Even in church, I have observed women making important contributions in ward council meetings.

Brother Hancock, in the interview, asked what it is that mormon feminists are asking for and I didn't hear a clear answer from John. Is it the priesthood that women want? Are mormon feminists against the doctrine that gender is part of our eternal identity as articulated in The Family: A Proclamation to the World? I like women, but maybe I haven't talked to enough of them. Maybe its because I am young. But I would like to be more enlightened about what mormon feminism is all about.

Even in a broader sense I always have to scratch my head when I hear people talk about the "war on women."

I don't know what you mean by "mormon feminists". Can you describe someone you think is one or maybe quote some things women like that have said? A feminist is someone who highlights and usually typifies the feminine gender, so maybe you're just talking about a woman who is describing the feminine role, for all I know. A feminist isn't necessarily against males, which is called what, machoism?

[Rivers]

I don't know what you mean by "mormon feminists". Can you describe someone you think is one or maybe quote some things women like that have said? A feminist is someone who highlights and usually typifies the feminine gender, so maybe you're just talking about a woman who is describing the feminine role, for all I know. A feminist isn't necessarily against males, which is called what, machoism?

I don't mean women who are against males. I mean the general mormon feminist movement I hear about and read about on the internet. One example is the whole "wear pants to church day" event. And Joanna Brooks was one indiviual who was referenced in the podcast several times.

The interview with Bro. Hancock was about liberalism. Feminists in this context are women who are speaking out for things that they want for females.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Rivers

[pogi]

I don't know what you mean by "mormon feminists". Can you describe someone you think is one or maybe quote some things women like that have said?

Here you go: http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org

[Ahab]

I don't mean women who are against males. I mean the general mormon feminist movement I hear about and read about on the internet. One example is the whole "wear pants to church day" event. And Joanna Brooks was one indiviual who was referenced in the podcast several times.

I don't see any problem with that. What we wear for clothing is kinda silly sometimes, in my opinion, and I don't see why women really need to wear "dresses" all the time. Pants on women still make them look like women to me.

The interview with Bro. Hancock was about liberalism. Feminists in this context are women who are speaking out for things that they want for females.

I want some things as a male, too. If I spoke out about things I'd like to have as a male what would be term to apply to me?

[Rivers]

I don't see any problem with that. What we wear for clothing is kinda silly sometimes, in my opinion, and I don't see why women really need to wear "dresses" all the time. Pants on women still make them look like women to me.

I want some things as a male, too. If I spoke out about things I'd like to have as a male what would be term to apply to me?

a malist?

[bluebell]

It really depends on the mormon feminist as to what she's trying to accomplish.

Some want the priesthood, absolutely.

Other's want more of an equal presence in the church and more of an equal say in what goes on (like being able to pray in GC, or serve in callings that don't require the priesthood, like ward mission leader or clerk, as men do).

Some want the whole way that women and men talk to each other to be less dependant upon gender and more on individual worth (less lessons where girls roles in life and the church are purely passive and boys are active, etc.)

And there are probably other groups that wants things i haven't even heard of yet (as i've not done any research into any mormon feminist groups and am going off of what i've run into out in the larger world so far).

[The Nehor]

I am pretty sure it is all some kind of bra burning fetish gone crazy but I have been wrong before (though just that one time).

[Ahab]

I am pretty sure it is all some kind of bra burning fetish gone crazy but I have been wrong before (though just that one time).

... and then there were all those times you were right and didn't know it.

[glitterNgold]

In my experience growing up mormon, I haven't seen much gender inequality...

It is always hard to recognize our own biases and it is usually painful to first recognize them as such. I remember trying an exercise in which I consider the idea that there is no gender in the pre-existence. That female souls are just as male souls - exactly no difference besides just being different entities. This exercise opened up my eyes to a lot of things I see as unequal in the church today.

That said, the most practical and reasonable change would be to get female bishops to interview my daughter for TRs and callings, support, etc. It makes no sense to me that a man should do this.

I also feel it is unreasonable that we always focus on God's husband as THE God of the Universe.

[Glenn101]

We need to let a a mormon feminist or feminists speak for them selves. May reach out to one or more at http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org and ask them to comment. I am not sure if there is any one agenda for them. But there is a general unrest as to women's roles in the church.

Glenn

[Ahab]

It is always hard to recognize our own biases and it is usually painful to first recognize them as such. I remember trying an exercise in which I consider the idea that there is no gender in the pre-existence. That female souls are just as male souls - exactly no difference besides just being different entities. This exercise opened up my eyes to a lot of things I see as unequal in the church today.

I see men and women as equals but with different roles. We're not supposed to be the same in every detail, and the differences can be wonderfully amazing!

That said, the most practical and reasonable change would be to get female bishops to interview my daughter for TRs and callings, support, etc. It makes no sense to me that a man should do this.

I've wondered for a while why it's not both a male and a female in charge of a ward, or stake, or whatever, instead of a male bishop with male counselors or assitants. I've also wondered why we don't talk to both our Father and Mother in heaven, instead of only our Father, and then also through another male. I'm sure there's a good reason why it is this way, but I still struggle to understand it, just as it seems you are doing.

I also feel it is unreasonable that we always focus on God's husband as THE God of the Universe.

The word God has many definitions or applications, so it's not always just a reference to our Father in heaven. It's also used sometimes to refer to any person who is the same kind of being as our Father in heaven, whether male or female. Still, though, there is some reason why we think of our Father as the head of the family, while the wife is equal but in a different.role.

[Tacenda]

I think the biggest beef that MFH have is that we're going backwards somewhat. Since in the early days of the church women would pronounce blessings on the sisters etc. Relief Society didn't use to be under the Priesthood, they were under their own entity. This might be the main point of frustration and would be mine also.

[glitterNgold]

I see men and women as equals but with different roles. We're not supposed to be the same in every detail, and the differences can be wonderfully amazing!

Thanks, Ahab.

I would like to add that the differences in each person can be wonderfully amazing!

[juliann]

In my experience growing up mormon, I haven't seens much gender inequality other than the obvious fact that men have the priesthood. But other than that I've always seen women as equals in the church. I have always seen my parents as equal partners in the home. And it seems to me that just about as many women are going to college and pursuing careers as men. Gerneral authorities have counciled women to get an education. Even in church, I have observed women making important contributions in ward council meetings.

Sometimes it is easier to acknowledge inequality if the word "difference" is substituted. The biggest problem in recognizing it is that the feeling about the equality/inequality is often confused for the equality itself. Equality isn't a feeling, it is a measurable state of being. We may not feel that a man always being the final word in church affairs creates any problems but it still leaves us with the glaring fact that a man will always have the final word in a patriarchal system. That is inequality by any definition, how we feel about it is irrelevant to its existence.

So maybe if you start by identifying the different roles and duties assigned by gender, without drawing any conclusions, it will start to become more clear.

[Ahab]

Sometimes it is easier to acknowledge inequality if the word "difference" is substituted. The biggest problem in recognizing it is that the feeling about the equality/inequality is often confused for the equality itself. Equality isn't a feeling, it is a measurable state of being. We may not feel that a man always being the final word in church affairs creates any problems but it still leaves us with the glaring fact that a man will always have the final word in a patriarchal system. That is inequality by any definition, how we feel about it is irrelevant to its existence.

So maybe if you start by identifying the different roles and duties assigned by gender, without drawing any conclusions, it will start to become more clear.

Different doesn't equate to unequal, at least not in terms of unequal importance. A woman can have the last word in a church meeting too but that doesn't mean everyone will be choosing to agree with that woman, just as they may not choose to agree with a man giving what he may call the last word.

In and out of the Church, the following is a list of some of the roles and duties of each gender, as I see them. I'll avoid drawing any conclusions between them in terms of gender or role and simply say that to me each role is equal in terms of importance, although each role is different.

One gives birth to a baby, which is the one who has a womb. The other contributes something to cause the birth process to begin, without which the one with the womb wouldn't have anything in the womb to give birth to.

One has a more nurturing role for the children, making the house feel more like a home. The other has the role of going out of the home to bring back what the other uses to make the house feel more like a home, including nurturing the one who nurtures the children. Both work together as partners.

One has the role of disciplining the chidlren, although both can discipline them equally well, while the other has the role of comforting the children after they have disciplined. Both work together as partners.

That's all I can think of for now. Feel free to add to the list of roles fulfilled by a person of either gender. I'll leave it to you to decide if one is more important than another.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Ahab

[BlueDreams]

Hi,

I would consider myself a mormon feminist. I also haven’t read any of the thread. So I’ll give your questions a shot (know that I haven’t listened to the interview or anything, these are just my initial thoughts from what you’ve thoughts).

In general, feminism is one heck of a broad umbrella. It’s like describing all of theism. Saying mormon feminism is like narrowing it to Christianity. My point is that there are fairly broad ideas of what it is/wanted. Is there women that want the priesthood? Yes (although, according to stats more men think women should have the priesthood than women) Is there feminist that disagree with the proc? I’m sure. I don’t, personally.

The core of my ideals about feminism entails both within the church and outside of it as well. It entails problems that I see within the culture/folk doctrine (ie. things that are based on human beliefs as opposed Christ), issues of invisibility in roles, problems based on ignorance and health, power dynamics in relationships, and continued problems of abuse. Continued problems with these can be strongly linked to the underlying problems with continued gendered ideals within cultures. I believe that the way we interact as men and women in whatever form of partnership is one of the things that keeps us back from a zion society. We’re not there yet. It’s just as simple as that.

In my experience growing up mormon, I haven't seen much gender inequality other than the obvious fact that men have the priesthood. But other than that I've always seen women as equals in the church. I have always seen my parents as equal partners in the home. And it seems to me that just about as many women are going to college and pursuing careers as men. Gerneral authorities have counciled women to get an education. Even in church, I have observed women making important contributions in ward council meetings.

I’m a young one myself. Some things I didn't notice growing up. Somethings I did and just didn't have words for. The disparity is definitely more obvious the further back you go….but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist today. It’s just a little less overt in nature. So lets take education/career with women. Though you may feel that women are about equal in careers and going to college, within an LDS context this is not exactly correct. It’s more nuanced. Nation-wide there are more women than men enrolling into college. UT enrollment is…different in someway.

Here’s an anecdotal example: me. I’m planning to go to grad school in psychology (probably marriage and family therapy). Each grad program has a differing level of female:male ratios. Psych, in general, is one of the few that is becoming predominantly female in grad work (around 70 percent)…it’s to the point that some work on recruiting men. Not so, at BYU. The psych PhD program has about 40% of their grad students as women. Same for the MFT PhD program. Almost all of the students are LDS. The Masters for both are better…for my interest it’s around: 55%. Of course for the overall average rate of graduation, that’s around 75%. So even in a usually female dominated program the ratios are unusually different. UT has some funky gender and college enrollment issues in general:

http://www.deseretne...ng-degrees.html

http://www.sltrib.co...cation.html.csp

And no, UT or byu does no represent all mormons by far. But in education and career there is definitely a balancing act that ensues and I think these numbers indicate that. Women are encouraged to get an education….but they’re also encouraged to have children and raise a family and, if possible, stay at home. And we’re encouraged to privately discuss the matter of when/how many kids to have with God/husband. But we’re also encouraged not to delay. So it’s a balancing act and women go all over as to how to handle it. This also changes career paths. If you’re going to focus on kids then you want a job that allows the flexibility and hours to do so. Some of the mommy friendliest are schools. Hours relatively match kids, there’s long breaks, good benefits and it works. Part-time work is also great at least hours wise. Problem with both is that many female dominated careers have lower pay.

Part-time has less job security and benefits. Simple as that.

I’m single, but even I when I look 5 years into the future my mind kinda goes blank. I want to work. But I want to have the opportunity to spend some time at home if I marry. My education is non-negotiable. I know it’ll take some balancing, some compromise of my own wants, and whatever else. My cousin is married without children for about a year. She’s applying to law school. She’s been fretting about the choice to hold off on having kids until after the first year. If she does have a child before then, law school is out of the question for a while to come (if ever). The point is, is that though I’m sure men’s plans change as well to accommodate family, our plans change dramatically and the likelihood of higher-level jobs diminishes significantly. The system in general in the US is not very family friendly at large….but that’s another (part of the) story.

What I’m basically saying is that no, we are not equal in education or career. The issue is not necessarily about over discrimination but a mix of cultural, seemingly conflicting religious messages, and structural systems problems all bunched as one.

I could go on, but I’m becoming long winded as it is.

Brother Hancock, in the interview, asked what it is that mormon feminists are asking for and I didn't hear a clear answer from John. Is it the priesthood that women want? Are mormon feminists against the doctrine that gender is part of our eternal identity as articulated in The Family: A Proclamation to the World? I like women, but maybe I haven't talked to enough of them. Maybe its because I am young. But I would like to be more enlightened about what mormon feminism is all about.

Again what mormon fem’s want will differ. This is what I personally want and seek for. I don’t want the priesthood, but I want women’s voice and role equally heard and utilized. I want equality for all. Not in sameness, but in both perspectives and roles being better used, understood, and heard. I want a greater understanding as to what in the world eternal gender entails. What is actual doctrine and what is our folk-doctrine that's remained. I’ll be honest, there was a time that I didn’t like the family proc. I do now, but it’s because my definitions of mother, nurture, preside, etc dramatically altered. I was reading it with a lens that saw the family as a 1950’s model that I did not want…ever. I want to have at least some rudimentary understanding as to what Heavenly Mother is up to (tying into that eternal gender thing again). I want answers and reasons that don’t just pump up the status quo with silly explanations that do not help either men or women in understanding. (Like women are naturally more spiritual and crap like unto it).

Basically there’s a list. But I’ll stop there. I continue to learn with what I got and grow and figure it out as I go. I know and feel and glimpse the power in LDS belief in our relationships as men and women. I believe that it does have a great equalizing power in its doctrine. I believe it’s not fully realized and it shows. I’m not interested in changing the church to be more “PC” or follow the “world’s example” or whatever else. I could go on but these are a few of my rambling thoughts.

With luv,

BD

Edited January 18, 2013 by BlueDreams

[BlueDreams]

I am pretty sure it is all some kind of bra burning fetish gone crazy but I have been wrong before (though just that one time).

Was that one time when you tried to join and bought a bra to burn to symbolize your liberation too ?

[The Nehor]

Was that one time when you tried to join and bought a bra to burn to symbolize your liberation too ?

No I burned a jockstrap. Then they kicked me out for some reason.

[Jude2]

I’m sorry I just don’t have any patients for feminist, I just don’t.

This is a quote from someone named Lisa which was post in an article at Feminist Mormon Housewives and then linked to from WAVE on Facebook, that’s how I stumbled across it. I found it all wrong, like she completely missed the point of the gospel.

"….vital to feminism is the idea that personal progression, personal salvation, personal agency, they are all very personal, and in the end, we can only build/change/be our very own selves, we women are not here to raise the coming generation (who will then raise the coming generation). We are here, we must be here, first and foremost and always for our selves…."*

Always for our selves?

First an foremost we are for God and we serve him by serving our fellowman/spirit brothers and sisters, starting with our families. Only then will our personal progress move forward!

Mormon feminist have swallowed this whole progressive ‘social justice’ junk. They see themselves as victims and community organizers.

Be leery of any book club you’re asked to join because it’s probably a branch of LDS WAVE or Women, Advocating for Voice and Equality. They’re very devious in how they spread their propaganda, they’ve been instructed not to tell the women they approach who they really are and then to carefully push their feminist agenda.

Here’s a quote which use to be on their face book site;

“The purpose behind this call to action is to create a forum for you and other women to explore ideas about Mormonism, gender, and feminism…. This group can be a book group, a discussion group, or a WAVE chapter, depending on the makeup of people. You might not have other feminists in your community to invite to this group. In this case, pick women you know who are compassionate and open minded and form a book group”

After reading this I posted;

“ Let’s see you’re going to invited sisters in the gospel to a group without telling them the real intent?? Sounds like something out of an Amway manual. Really sisters this is not the Lord’s way, he does not lay in wait to deceive. If you can’t be honest and say ‘I’m starting a WAVE chapter’ then you’re not on the Lord’s errand.

One more point; non feminist can be very compassionate, loving and open minded too.”

WAVE has a way of wrapping it all up pretty paper, I mean they talk about service and love etc. They know just how to push the LDS woman’s buttons or pull on our heart strings with sappy stories and telling us how much they care about the down trodden. But, don’t let them fool you they have an agenda to change the Church and to make us accept the whole progressive movement little bites at a time.

*http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/2010/12/mary-divine-motherhood-and-mormonism/

http://www.ldswave.org/?page_id=83

You may not use this board to bash people or preach to them. We have posters who are feminists. You have been removed from the thread.

[thesometimesaint]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_movement

[Calm]

In my experience growing up mormon, I haven't seens much gender inequality other than the obvious fact that men have the priesthood.

Three thought experiments to see what the female experience of gender differences may be like (found one in my wanderings, a friend pointed the other site out to me, I am not saying I agree with some of the conclusions and attitudes that are posted alongside these 'experiences', just that it may help in looking at what is experienced by women in the Church in a new way):

http://bookofmorma.webs.com/

1 I, Nephie, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my mother; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lady in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of Goddess, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my mother, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians. 3 And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it with mine own hand; and I make it according to my knowledge.

4 For it came to pass in the commencement of the first year of the reign of Zedekia, queen of Judith, (my mother, Sariah, having dwelt at Jerusalem in all her days); and in that same year there came many prophetesses, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed. 5 Wherefore it came to pass that my mother, Sariah, as she went forth prayed unto the Lady, yea, even with all her heart, in behalf of her people.

6 And it came to pass as she prayed unto the Lady, there came a pillar of fire and dwelt upon a rock before her; and she saw and heard much; and because of the things which she saw and heard she did quake and tremble exceedingly. 7 And it came to pass that she returned to her own house at Jerusalem; and she cast herself upon her bed, being overcome with the Spirit and the things which she had seen. 8 And being thus overcome with the Spirit, she was carried away in a vision, even that she saw the heavens open, and she thought she saw Goddess sitting upon her throne, surrounded with numberless concourses of angels in the attitude of singing and praising their Goddess.

9 And it came to pass that she saw One descending out of the midst of heaven, and she beheld that her luster was above that of the sun at noon-day. 10 And she also saw twelve others following her, and their brightness did exceed that of the stars in the firmament. 11 And they came down and went forth upon the face of the earth; and the first came and stood before my mother, and gave unto her a book, and bade her that she should read.

12 And it came to pass that as she read, she was filled with the Spirit of the Lady. 13 And she read, saying: Wo, wo, unto Jerusalem, for I have seen thine abominations! Yea, and many things did my mother read concerning Jerusalem—that it should be destroyed, and the inhabitants thereof; many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon.

http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/2007/03/a-walk-in-pink-moccasins/

“My dear young brethren, it is such a delight to be able to speak to you today. Your faces and your clothing look so clean and fresh. I know that our Mother in Heaven is pleased as she looks down on you this day. And I want, first of all, to convey to you the fact that our Mother loves you. I am persuaded that She loves you just as much as she loves her daughters, and I hope you can believe that.

“And what a marvelous plan She has laid out for you! What a glorious role you are called to fill! How you must have rejoiced in spirit as She created the earth and placed there her crowning creation, Eve, the first and perfect woman. But of course our Mother could see that Eve was not complete, that she needed a worthy helpmeet to assist her in the great work she was called to do. And so this is where you come in, dear brethren. A rib from Eve’s own body was fashioned into the body of Adam, and he was given her as a friend and helpmeet. What a glorious and noble calling! So important was he to Eve, and so important the commandment her Mother had given, that even when Adam sinned because he was deceived, Eve knowingly sinned with him so they could remain together.

“And over the centuries how you must have rejoiced as the plan unfolded further–through the great Matriarchs, Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel–as our Mother’s holy prophetesses continued to reveal her word to us, as woman after woman was sent to do important work, making us all better people so that we could bless the lives of our husbands and children.

“Keep yourselves clean and pure, dear brethren, that one day one of our Mother’s choice daughters might look with favor upon you, claim you as her own, and give to you the glorious privilege of serving as her helpmeet, adding glory unto her as she adds glory unto the Mother.

“And do not listen to the voices that cry out to you from the world. We are living in dark and evil times. Satan herself desires you. Do not listen to the voices that tell you you are suppressed, that entice you to a thing called full personhood and freedom. The role of man has always been made clear by God Herself. The place he occupies in our Mother’s plan is not in question–it is now, always has been, and always will be to stand by the side of woman, assisting her in the great work she has been given to do.

“It is true that new doors are opening for man to contribute in many fields besides his primary one, and we are glad when a man shows talents and abilities in a wider range of service. We encourage this. We are proud of the achievements of our fine young men.

“And as the light of our Mother grows brighter in this world we learn even more of the glorious truths concerning manhood, that it is intended indeed to be a partnership with woman. In fact, one of the truths of our age, and I believe with all my heart this is a truth even though we don’t want to talk about it and even though the words were written by a man–somewhere we’ve a Father there! Imagine! Somewhere we’ve a Father there!”

As you walk into the chapel, you see the three women in the bishopric sitting reverently on the stand as the 14-15-year-old girls are covering the Sacrament table with a white lacetablecloth. The deacon’s quorum president, a 13-year-old girl, is walking through the congregation recruiting a few last-minute Sacrament-passers from among the women of the ward, who leave their children with their fathers so they can sit with the 12-13-year-old girls in the first pew next to the Sacrament table.

The female bishop stands up to welcome everyone to Sacrament meeting and acknowledges the presence of the high councilwoman on the stand, here to conduct some stake business. Please turn to hymn number 70, “Sing Praise to Her”, after which the invocation will be given by Brother Brown, our men’s relief society president.

[Hymn]

Sing praise to her who reigns above,

The Queen of all creation,

The source of pow’r, the fount of love,

The rock of our salvation.

With healing balm my soul she fills

And ev’ry faithless murmur stills.

To her all praise and glory!

What her almighty pow’r hath made

Her gracious mercy keepeth

by morning glow or evening shade

Her watchful eye ne’er sleepeth.

Within the queendom of her might

Lo! all is just and all is right.

To her all praise and glory!

The Queen is never far away,

But, thru all grief distressing,

An ever-present help and stay,

Our peace and joy and blessing.

As with a mother’s tender hand,

She leads her own, her chosen band.

To her all praise and glory!

Thus, all my toilsome way along,

I sing aloud thy praises,

That all may hear the grateful song

My voice unwearied raises.

Be joyful in the Queen, my heart!

Both soul and body bear your part.

To her all praise and glory!

After Brother Brown’s prayer, the bishop announces that a new little baby will be blessed today: “Will the baby’s mother, and all those who’ve been invited to join in the circle, please come to the front at this time.” As half a dozen women encircle the child and hold him in their arms, the mother gives the baby a name and blessing as the father sits in his pew trying to remember all that has been said. When the blessing is over, the mother holds up the little tyke in his white outfit and the congregation chuckles as the baby coos for everyone to hear.

The stake highcouncilwoman stands up next to announce some changes in stake callings and to ask for approval in ordaining several 19-year-old young women to the office of “elder” prior to their full-time mission service. She also reminds ward members that the Stake Matriarch is back from vacation and available to give Matriarchal Blessings once again – people should speak to the bishop or her counselors about getting recommends before contacting the Matriarch for a blessing.

The bishop stands again to announce that the Sacrament Hymn will be number 175, “O God, The Eternal Mother”, after which the Sacrament will be blessed and passed by the members of the Aaronic priesthood. After the older young women have knelt before God, petitioning her on behalf of the congregation to sanctify the bread and water to all who partake, the deacons and those other women asked to help them walk from row to row passing the emblems of Christ’s body and blood. Men and boys pass the trays along the pews from one to another, but none of them will ever be in a position to stand and minister to the congregation the way the girls do. Fathers lean over to their 8-year-old daughters and remind them that some day they will have this great responsibility to reverently administer the ordinance that reminds us of the covenants we’ve made with God. They tell their sons that they are important, too, and that the young men’s program will offer them ways to serve in less visible roles.

After thanking the young women for reverently passing the Sacrament, the bishop invites them to return to their families and introduces the speakers for the day. A youth speaker, a Relief Society Brother, and, finally, the High Councilwoman with a special message from the Stake Presidency. After their comments, the closing hymn will be number 156, “Sing We Now at Parting.”

[Hymn]

Sing we now at parting One more strain of praise.

To our Heav’nly Mother Sweetest song we’ll raise.

For her loving kindness, For her tender care,

Let our songs of gladness Fill this Sabbath air.

After Sacrament meeting, the ward divides up into Sunday School and Primary classes. In the Primary room, there are pictures of Jesus and of the current Prophet and her counselors, as well as the 12 women who make up the Quorum of the 12 Apostles. There are pictures of all of the great prophetesses of the scriptures, and even a few men who take care of their families and play with their children. In the adults’ Gospel Doctrine class, a very thoughtful man is the teacher, and he tells the class how much he appreciates the insights that former bishops and high councilwomen bring to his lessons.

In Relief Society and Priesthood, the RS men use the same manuals as the priesthood women – the men used to have their own manuals with lessons and quotations written by men leading the various men’s auxiliaries, but the First Presidency decided that it would be better for families to all be studying from the same manuals, so the men get to use the priesthood lessons. So all the adults spend a year studying the lives and teachings of the modern-day women prophets of the church. The male Relief Society teachers do their best to adapt the lessons to bring out interesting ideas about the men in the various prophets’ lives, but since the manuals don’t really have much information about the women prophets’ families, it’s a tough job. Plus, there’s the teaching requirements that teachers use only the material in the prescribed manuals, so those men who make an effort to find and use extra resources do it at the risk of being released from their callings when one of the other men in the meeting decides to run to the bishop and explain how “out there” the Relief Society lessons are.

[Tacenda]

Three thought experiments to see what the female experience of gender differences may be like (found one in my wanderings, a friend pointed the other site out to me, I am not saying I agree with some of the conclusions and attitudes that are posted alongside these 'experiences', just that it may help in looking at what is experienced by women in the Church in a new way):

http://bookofmorma.webs.com/

http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/2007/03/a-walk-in-pink-moccasins/

I remember reading this last one. I thought it was a pretty good analogy and hadn't really dwelled on male dominance in the scriptures, Godhead, church lesson manuals etc. I can't say that I'm totally on board with some of the demands of FMH since I've never really been a feminist but don't see any harm in getting equality all around. Or the harm with women speaking out, without these kinds of women, how long would it have taken to vote or not be the property of a man.

[volgadon]

I remember reading this last one. I thought it was a pretty good analogy and hadn't really dwelled on male dominance in the scriptures, Godhead, church lesson manuals etc. I can't say that I'm totally on board with some of the demands of FMH since I've never really been a feminist but don't see any harm in getting equality all around. Or the harm with women speaking out, without these kinds of women, how long would it have taken to vote or not be the property of a man.

I dunno, a lot of it strikes me as artificial equaity.

[thesometimesaint]

Better artificial equality than no equality at all.