Crying in church

[MustardSeed]

Last week I taught GD and I shared a story that was very personal, and I cried. Regretfully.

I don’t have a problem with crying in front of people. I think vulnerability can be a very honest offering. But I think crying in the context of a church setting is undesirable because there can be a lot of confusion around what is the spirit and what is emotion. 
 

Upon reflection, last Sunday, I was crying, not because the spirit was testifying of any particular truth, but I was moved by my own words. That’s embarrassing.
 

It’s really important to me to understand and operate from a place of truth for myself.  
 

I recently listened to a podcast. The speaker was a very intelligent, very educated and very articulate person. I was inspired by the things she was saying, and I felt the spirit testify of truth that she was saying. Then, at the end, she started sharing things that were deeply personal and she became very weepy. I ended up turning off the program early.

There have been times as a performer I have cried. Sometimes the music moves me to tears. Admittedly, sometimes even my own music moves me to tears. that is not embarrassing to me because it feels authentic. For some reason, my tears at church often feel like something else. 
 

I’m not sure how to articulate what I’m experiencing. I thought I would put it out here and see if anyone that might help me get a little closer to what happens for me, when I cry, and when others cry at church. 
 

thanks- 

[Dario_M]

Yeah i also cry in church. I try to be discreet so that nobody notice it. 

I also cry a lot at home but then i'm not discreet at all. 

Edited August 23, 2024 by Dario_M

[teddyaware]

36 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Last week I taught GD and I shared a story that was very personal, and I cried. Regretfully.

I don’t have a problem with crying in front of people. I think vulnerability can be a very honest offering. But I think crying in the context of a church setting is undesirable because there can be a lot of confusion around what is the spirit and what is emotion. 
 

Upon reflection, last Sunday, I was crying, not because the spirit was testifying of any particular truth, but I was moved by my own words. That’s embarrassing.
 

It’s really important to me to understand and operate from a place of truth for myself.  
 

I recently listened to a podcast. The speaker was a very intelligent, very educated and very articulate person. I was inspired by the things she was saying, and I felt the spirit testify of truth that she was saying. Then, at the end, she started sharing things that were deeply personal and she became very weepy. I ended up turning off the program early.

There have been times as a performer I have cried. Sometimes the music moves me to tears. Admittedly, sometimes even my own music moves me to tears. that is not embarrassing to me because it feels authentic. For some reason, my tears at church often feel like something else. 
 

I’m not sure how to articulate what I’m experiencing. I thought I would put it out here and see if anyone that might help me get a little closer to what happens for me, when I cry, and when others cry at church. 
 

thanks- 

I’m guessing the Savior got away with crying while preaching and ministering because he’s God?

[Rain]

It can be tough to figure out sometimes.  I think the biggest problem comes when we assume tears mean the spirit when often times it just means emotions. That's not saying emotions are bad. They are just not the same thing.  

For example, when my daughter was in Young Women the 4th year girls were supposed to put on a program for the other girls before camp that would encourage the younger girls to come.  The girls were asked to share things that were a struggle for them.  Then they were pressured to share things that were harder and would make people emote more (though not in those words).  

The thing is that if the spirit is there God doesn't need us to use our emotions because the spirit is enough and if it's not there then it is dishonest to use our emotions to show that. 

So I think it's a good thing that you are looking at yourself to see where you're emotions are coming from.   Emotions definitively aren't bad and they can come from different places, but it is good to make sure they are coming honestly.

Edited August 23, 2024 by Rain

[bluebell]

I think if they are genuine, then I'm fine with them (though we did have a sister in a college ward that cried so hard every. single. time. she bore her testimony that you could not understand her, and I struggled not to find that annoying).

I think it's important to teach people in church that emotion does not equal the spirit, and at the same time, I think we need to have room at church for people to be emotional without judgement.  

I want people to be their authentic selves.  If that's weepy, then I'm here for that.  If it's not, I'm good with that too.  But I don't like when someone tries to pretend not to feel emotional when they clearly do, or when they try to feel emotional when they clearly don't.  I find that uncomfortable and distracting.

Just be yourself and don't worry about how I'm reacting to it, because it only feels like manipulation to me when how I'm reacting to it becomes the point (if that makes sense).

[MustardSeed]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Just be yourself and don't worry about how I'm reacting to it, because it only feels like manipulation to me when how I'm reacting to it becomes the point (if that makes sense).

Yes.  I’m trying to figure out who my true self is and not be swayed by a culture of tears in church- my mom cries every week.  I rarely cry in life- so I don’t see church as the place I want to suddenly get weepy.  Trying to understand it all- 

[MustardSeed]

27 minutes ago, Rain said:

So I think it's a good thing that you are looking at yourself to see where you're emotions are coming from.   Emotions definitively aren't bad and they can come from different places, but it is good to make sure they are coming honestly.

Precisely- I do not want the tears to be something habitual or just learned in the context of church.

[MustardSeed]

I’m glad I have a place to process this for myself🥲🥲😉

[JVW]

I am very emotionally flat. I can tell if I'm feeling some emotions based on physical responses, like if my gut gets twisted, or my heartrate increases. But most of the time I cannot tell what emotion I'm actually feeling and my wife has only seen me cry a handful of times in 10 years of marriage. At church, there has been maybe twice that I've ever cried while bearing my testimony, both of those times were very random and unplanned, and I did not intend to cry. When I cry while bearing a testimony I stop speaking until I can speak clearly and I back away from the microphone to avoid sniffle sounds and things like that.

However, within the last three months I have started to cry more. My heart has been changing because my mom (early 60's) has been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer and will probably be dead by the end of the year. There have been times in which I've cried while giving a comment in Sunday School. There have been times I've cried when talking to people in private conversations, and there have been times I've cried while sharing during my 12 step addict meetings. Something interesting about these more recent cries is that I can speak while crying, I don't need to pause or anything.

I think it feels really nice to cry, regardless of whether or not it's because of God moving within me. Whether a member at church cries or not during a testimony or a comment I disregard what they say, don't like what they say, or don't believe what they are saying 90% of the time anyways. Most of the people that listen to me when I speak during church will be the same way. If someone is positively impacted by what I'm saying, that's great. But I don't speak for the benefit of others, I speak because I feel like doing it. These are just some of the thoughts I've been having while reading through this thread.

[Rain]

11 minutes ago, JVW said:

I am very emotionally flat. I can tell if I'm feeling some emotions based on physical responses, like if my gut gets twisted, or my heartrate increases.

I was reading something a few months ago (might have been At-one-ment by Thomas mcConkie) where he talks about paying attention to your physicl state as it can help you read your emotional state. 

11 minutes ago, JVW said:

But most of the time I cannot tell what emotion I'm actually feeling and my wife has only seen me cry a handful of times in 10 years of marriage. At church, there has been maybe twice that I've ever cried while bearing my testimony, both of those times were very random and unplanned, and I did not intend to cry. When I cry while bearing a testimony I stop speaking until I can speak clearly and I back away from the microphone to avoid sniffle sounds and things like that.

However, within the last three months I have started to cry more. My heart has been changing because my mom (early 60's) has been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer and will probably be dead by the end of the year. There have been times in which I've cried while giving a comment in Sunday School. There have been times I've cried when talking to people in private conversations, and there have been times I've cried while sharing during my 12 step addict meetings. Something interesting about these more recent cries is that I can speak while crying, I don't need to pause or anything.

I think it feels really nice to cry, regardless of whether or not it's because of God moving within me. Whether a member at church cries or not during a testimony or a comment I disregard what they say, don't like what they say, or don't believe what they are saying 90% of the time anyways. Most of the people that listen to me when I speak during church will be the same way. If someone is positively impacted by what I'm saying, that's great. But I don't speak for the benefit of others, I speak because I feel like doing it. These are just some of the thoughts I've been having while reading through this thread.

I'm glad you have that ability to cry now to help you deal with your loss.

Edited August 23, 2024 by Rain

[The Nehor]

I have cried while giving talks but it is the quiet tears while I talk and I don’t get choked up. Most of the time I don’t think people notice.

[rpn]

Tears aren't always an emotional thing.    Sometimes it is just the way one's body works to express emotion or fear or something else (and the fact that it runs in your family may confirm that --- though of course it could also be because your family was open and okay with how emotions were expressed in your home so you do things that others have trained out of themselves).

Whoever said that crying in a church setting has anything to do with the spirit confirming anything anyway?

[Rain]

24 minutes ago, rpn said:

Tears aren't always an emotional thing.    Sometimes it is just the way one's body works to express emotion or fear or something else (and the fact that it runs in your family may confirm that --- though of course it could also be because your family was open and okay with how emotions were expressed in your home so you do things that others have trained out of themselves).

Whoever said that crying in a church setting has anything to do with the spirit confirming anything anyway?

Oh, many people.  I've just not heard it from leaders. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Yes.  I’m trying to figure out who my true self is and not be swayed by a culture of tears in church- my mom cries every week.  I rarely cry in life- so I don’t see church as the place I want to suddenly get weepy.  Trying to understand it all- 

It just could be extra stressful (could be bad or good stress) due to having a lot of ideas and emotions attached to the experience and it’s your body dealing with that stress more than you being in an emotional state of being where you would typically cry.

Me, I have for some reason a very low threshold for tears, always have. It pisses me off because they can get triggered anytime I get intense and aware of myself (I won’t cry if I am caught up into something, but I will talk way too fast, lol).

Also music for no reason can set off the tears, even rotten music. It just needs a sentimental or passionate tone.  

Hymns get me all the time as well and make church a very tear prone arena.  I think I am more prone to cry at church because I talk about things that matter to me among people that matter to me even when I don’t know them well, and I want to have an impact which ups my intensity and so emotional stress starts out at ‘high’ already  

It used to stop me from talking in front of people, now I just explain anything can trigger the tears and they are pretty meaningless, a physical reaction  and struggle through them, hating every second. 

Edited August 23, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, JVW said:

am very emotionally flat. I can tell if I'm feeling some emotions based on physical responses, like if my gut gets twisted, or my heartrate increases. But most of the time I cannot tell what emotion I'm actually feeling and my wife has only seen me cry a handful of times in 10 years of marriage. At church, there has been maybe twice that I've ever cried while bearing my testimony, both of those times were very random and unplanned, and I did not intend to cry. When I cry while bearing a testimony I stop speaking until I can speak clearly and I back away from the microphone to avoid sniffle sounds and things like that.

 

My dad was like that, though he went further as I never saw him crying. Got a little teary eyed on rare occasions.  He probably saw himself as emotionally flat as he didn’t get lit up with happiness or satisfaction.  He would be relaxed if he felt good about something.

But he certainly had emotional content on his face and in his body language when he was unhappy or discontent, even though he was dismissive of our appraisals. He would never agree he was upset when we asked or just wave off the question as irrelevant, not worthy of answering. But everyone knew to hunker down some when Dad got pissed off (not that he did anything besides perhaps lay down a bit of law, we just didn’t like it because it was different than the usual and he had a very intimidating appearance, he would have made a good gangster, one of the flash, ruthless and quite good looking bad guys).

You might want to ask someone if you show irritation in your face, even if very briefly, a grimace or tenseness. You might be surprised (might not be, there are definitely people who show little emotion).

Edited August 23, 2024 by Calm

[smac97]

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Last week I taught GD and I shared a story that was very personal, and I cried. Regretfully.

I don’t have a problem with crying in front of people. I think vulnerability can be a very honest offering. But I think crying in the context of a church setting is undesirable because there can be a lot of confusion around what is the spirit and what is emotion. 

Upon reflection, last Sunday, I was crying, not because the spirit was testifying of any particular truth, but I was moved by my own words. That’s embarrassing.

It’s really important to me to understand and operate from a place of truth for myself.  

I recently listened to a podcast. The speaker was a very intelligent, very educated and very articulate person. I was inspired by the things she was saying, and I felt the spirit testify of truth that she was saying. Then, at the end, she started sharing things that were deeply personal and she became very weepy. I ended up turning off the program early.

There have been times as a performer I have cried. Sometimes the music moves me to tears. Admittedly, sometimes even my own music moves me to tears. that is not embarrassing to me because it feels authentic. For some reason, my tears at church often feel like something else. 

I’m not sure how to articulate what I’m experiencing. I thought I would put it out here and see if anyone that might help me get a little closer to what happens for me, when I cry, and when others cry at church. 

thanks- 

A few thoughts:

1. I concede that people can and do confuse and conflate spiritual and emotional experiences.

2. Pres. Hunter put it this way: "I get concerned when it appears that strong emotion or free-flowing tears are equated with the presence of the Spirit. Certainly the Spirit of the Lord can bring strong emotional feelings, including tears, but that outward manifestation ought not to be confused with the presence of the Spirit itself."

3. See also this FAIR article:

Quote

It is a fundamental misunderstanding or misstatement to say that the LDS revelatory experience is exclusively or primarily “emotional.” The united witness of mind and heart is key in LDS doctrine. Even the body is involved in many instances, hence the use of language exactly like “burning in the bosom.” The LDS concept of human experience is not one where we are carved up into separate, rigid compartments labeled emotional, intellectual, and physical. The LDS approach to human experience is holistic and involves all of our faculties operating simultaneously and inextricably. According to LDS scripture, “the spirit and the body are the soul of man.” D&C 88:15 We are greater than the mere sum of our inner and outer parts. Ordinarily, it’s not possible, nor is it desirable, to reject and shut down any one of our faculties. All of them combine to provide useful and valid ways of coming to know ourselves, the world, and God. All are involved in true spiritual experience.

 

Accordingly, an LDS “spiritual” experience has intellectual content as well as emotional elements of peace or joy. In the early days of the Church, Oliver Cowdery received the following revelation through Joseph Smith:

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things.

Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God? (D&C 6:22–23).

 

Notice the information is spoken to the “mind,” and the feeling of peace accompanies the intellectual gift. Further, the solution for later doubts or concerns is not reliance on “a feeling” alone but an admonition to recall specific information communicated earlier.

 

This matches the revelatory pattern later explained to Cowdery.

 

Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong… (D&C 9:7–9).

 

Again, the united witness of intellect and heart are essential. If either does not agree, then revelation has not yet confirmed the matter under consideration. Anyone who relies exclusively on any one faculty – either feeling or reasoning or physical sensation – does not properly understand the LDS approach to spiritual witnesses.

 

To be sure, many Church members will talk about how they “felt” when they prayed or had other experiences with God. However, it is to fundamentally misunderstand these experiences to assume (as critics often do) that talk of “feeling” means simply—or only, or primarily— experiencing an “emotion.” What's lacking from these descriptions is vocabulary. The problem with them is more semantic than it is substantial. The LDS member is stymied, in a sense, because there is no good, available word for what happens during a spiritual experience. These experiences are ineffable. By definition, they defy description. Since few of us have the poetic and metaphorical powers of prophets like Isaiah and John, we are left to try our best to convey what we've experienced in words laden with secular connotations which critics can misinterpret if they so choose.

 

LDS scholar, Hugh Nibley, hazarded a guess at what this process of willful misinterpretation might look like:

 

He cannot conceive how anyone could possibly acquire knowledge by any method other than his. He cannot believe that any man has experienced anything which he has not experienced. . . . ‘I have never seen a vision,' says the [skeptic], ‘therefore, Joseph Smith never had one. I have seen dreams [or had emotionally moving experiences], therefore, I will allow him that.'”[1]

 

Early Christians experience similar feelings to a "burning in the bosom". Justin Martyr wrote in his book Dialogue with Trypho, of his conversion that he was a philosopher until he met an old man who introduced him to the Hebrew Prophets when “a flame enkindled his heart” and he found “this philosophy (Christianity) alone to be sure and profitable.” [2]

 

The Shepard of Hermas, which was once considered scripture, reads “There are two angels with a man-one of righteousness, and the other of iniquity...The angel of righteousness is gentle and modest, meek and peaceful. When he ascends into your heart, he speaks to you of righteousness, purity, chastity, contentment, and every other righteous deed and glorious virtue. When all of these things come into your heart, know that the angel of righteousness is with you” [3]

___

 

[1]  Hugh W. Nibley, The World and the Prophets, 3rd edition, (Vol. 3 of Collected Works of Hugh Nibley), edited by John W. Welch, Gary P. Gillum, and Don E. Norton, (Salt Lake City, Utah : Deseret Book Company ; Provo, Utah : Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1987), 31. ISBN 087579078X.

[2] Dialogue with Trypho 8, Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:198

[3] Shepard of Hermas, Ante-Nicene Fathers 2:24

Finally, other examples are other Mormon-affiliated groups – the Community of Christ and FLDS church. Both of these churches encourage their members to follow Moroni’s promise and find out for themselves the truth of their church. And the spirit confirms to them that their church is the one true church. It seem to me that praying for truth doesn’t seem to be too uncommon. When people recognize that there is a higher being(s) they ask that higher being(s) for guidance to, and confirmation of, the truth.

4. This article by Latter-day Saint Jeff Lindsay also has some good points on this issue.  A few highlights (emphases added):

Quote

Some people are puzzled by our use of the term "testimony," but I feel we use it as it is used in the Bible. For example, Revelation 19:10 says that "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" - suggesting to me that revelation - the spirit of prophecy - is needed to have a sure witness of Christ (and that those with a sure witness of Christ can have spiritual gifts such as prophecy). Rev. 19:10, by the way, echoes 1 Cor. 12:3: "no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." No one can truly testify of Christ - or truly "bear testimony" of Him, unless that testimony is based on personal revelation through the power of the Holy Ghost. Other related references to the use of the word "testimony" can be found in 1 Cor. 1:6; 1 Cor. 2:1; 2 Tim. 1:8; Rev. 6:9; and Rev. 12:11.

 

Faith based on the physical senses and human logic alone is much more fallible than "the sure word of prophecy" (2 Peter 1:19) wherein God reveals pure truth to a soul - an experience which is difficult to describe but is real and available to those earnestly seeking to commune with God in prayer.

 

The concept of humans receiving a witness of the truth through the power of God - rather than human logic alone - is entirely Biblical. See Matthew 16:15-19; John 14:26 and 15:26, and others. I think that the best discourse on this topic is found in chapters 1 and 2 of First Corinthians. Paul refers to the testimony of Christ (1 Cor. 1:6) and warns against the divisions among the believers that have occurred because of false doctrines and the learning of men. Whereas the Greeks love human wisdom and logic and sophistry, Paul stresses that all this is foolishness before God (1 Cor. 1:17-21).

...

LDS testimonies are based upon the idea that God can reveal truth to us and give us an understanding that the Gospel is true, that Jesus is the Christ, and that He leads His Church through modern prophets and apostles, even when we don't yet have all the understanding needed to answer the many objections that critics throw our way. Once God has revealed it to our heart and mind, human logic cannot easily overthrow that witness. This concept, contrary to what our critics asset, is entirely Biblical. Paul, for example, spoke of this in 1 Corinthians 12:3, saying "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." We cannot truly know that Jesus is the Lord unless it is revealed to us by the Holy Ghost. Revelation is the basis of testimony - and our critics wrest the scriptures when they revile against the thought.

 

So how do Mormons obtain this revelation and develop their faith about the truthfulness of the Gospel? Prayer is essential, and pondering and thinking about the word of God (which includes the Book of Mormon). Prayer, study, and pondering opens up the channels of revelation. Further, we must experiment with the word and put the Gospel into practice. For example, John 7:17 tells us that we can know of the truthfulness of Christ's word by doing it - by doing the will of God. In John 8:31, the Savior teaches that we will come to know the truth if we continue in His word, becoming true disciples. Both of these passages agree with Alma 32 in the Book of Mormon (the "seed" chapter you read): our knowledge of the truth grows as we put it into practice, just as scientific knowledge grows as we apply and experiment with valid scientific hypotheses. Alma 32 talks about much more than an emotional experience - which is not the basis of testimony for faithful Latter-day Saints (though it is for some who have not diligently sought to know and nurture the word). Emotional experiences can occur in any religion and are not a reasonable basis for faith.

5. I have had several experiences which, in my view, were plainly "spiritual" and not emotional.  I present two here:

Experience #1: Right after high school I joined the Army (National Guard) and spent 12 months studying Russian at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, CA.  At the end of my training, I submitted my mission papers and was called to serve in Taiwan, where I spent the next two years learning Mandarin.  By the end of my mission my Russian had become rusty.  When I returned home my sister recommended that I sign up with ILP ("International Language Program"), an outfit that specialized in sending Americans overseas to teach English.  She had taught English in China and had a wonderful experience, and she said they would definitely find me useful because of my past training in Russian.  She gave me the sign-up papers and told me that I was a shoo-in.

I was pretty excited at this prospect, as I liked the idea of polishing up my Russian for 4-6 months, then returning and studying Chinese at BYU.  I would graduate with pretty decent training in two pretty useful languages.  Despite my enthusiasm, I never went.  I never even filled out the application.  I kept intending to do so, but then I would forget.  I prayed about the matter, and eventually I concluded that I had likely been experiencing the "stupor of thought" described in D&C 9:9.  I decided to put the application aside and proceed with enrolling at BYU, to start in the 1996 Winter semester.  On the first day of classes, I went to my Biology Class and there met a girl.  We became friends, then we started dating, then we started talking about marriage.  We got married, and I have been very happy to be her husband ever since.

In hindsight, I don't think I would have crossed paths with her except in that particular Biology Class.  It was the last of her GE requirements, and she was majoring in Elementary Education.  Meanwhile, I was just starting my GEs and was majoring in Chinese.  I was living off-campus, she was in the dorms.  I was from Utah, she was from Washington State.  We had no friends or acquaintances or family in common.  The likelihood of me singling her out, or she singling me out, on a campus with 32,000 students seems . . . remote.  So yeah, I suspect my only chance at meeting her required me to be at BYU in Provo, rather than teaching English in Russia, in January 1996.

I had a host of good reasons to go to Russia, and I wanted to go, and I had the means and opportunity to go.  My "emotions" would have had me going to Russia.  The "Spirit," though, had me stay where I was and, in short order, meet my wife.

Experience #2: A few years ago I had the opportunity to purchase what may well be the last piece of property in Utah that is adjacent to the Provo River (at the end of my back yard).  I currently own a house on a separate parcel that also backs to the river, but Provo City has spent years hinting that they want to widen the road, and thus condemn and take my house and its beautiful back yard (including the river).  The owner of this other parcel (the adult daughter of the former owner, now deceased) did not want to market the property, so she asked me and the only other interested party - a couple I did not know - to submit competing bids.  I was very interested in buying it, as it A) was a bigger lot than my current one, B) would allow me to build a new house (my current one is nearly 60 years old), C) the price was very reasonable, D) I had the money, and so on.  So I submitted an initial bid, then a second (counter) bid, then a third.  I went to submit a fourth, and at that point . . . I had to stop.  I remember feeling very frustrated, to be constrained in this way.  I tried to complete the email, and the impression came again, even stronger.  I needed to stop.  I needed to not buy this property.  So I didn't.  I spoke with my wife, then we withdrew from the bidding, and the other bidding couple won (I now know this couple, as they are in my ward, and we are very good friends).  

I don't know why this happened.  I had every reason to buy it.  My "emotions" would have had me continuing to bid (and, frankly, I think I would have won).  Instead, the "Spirit" had me - in grumpy and begrudging fashion - withdraw from the process.

I have had other spiritual experiences as well.  And emotional ones.  And I think there have been times where I have conflated the two.  Differentiating them can be an important skill set.

Thank you,

-Smac

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

It just could be extra stressful (could be bad or good stress) due to having a lot of ideas and emotions attached to the experience and it’s your body dealing with that stress more than you being in an emotional state of being where you would typically cry.

Me, I have for some reason a very low threshold for tears, always have. It pisses me off

Same.

Anytime I feel any emotion strongly my body tries to cry, and almost everytime it makes me really angry because it's hurting my ability to deal with that emotion or do what I'm trying to do, and I can't control it.

I don't like not being able to control expressing emotion, regardless of what that emotion is.  It makes me feel vulnerable to judgment.

[blackstrap]

I am of that generation that were told that  ' men don't cry ' . If I saw a man cry then I assumed there was something seriously wrong. On the other hand there was one gentleman who cried every time he bore his testimony which was nearly every month. It seemed not genuine after a while. We still have a box of tissues at the pulpit just in case. 

I am told " there is no crying in baseball " . Anywhere else is OK. 

[bluebell]

13 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

I am of that generation that were told that  ' men don't cry ' . If I saw a man cry then I assumed there was something seriously wrong. On the other hand there was one gentleman who cried every time he bore his testimony which was nearly every month. It seemed not genuine after a while. We still have a box of tissues at the pulpit just in case. 

I am told " there is no crying in baseball " . Anywhere else is OK. 

We had one man in one of my wards on my mission who would cry every time he bore his testimony.  He was a really big, old, polish man (Bro. Litza).  He was a really great man that I still remember.  Every time he started crying at the stand he would just say "sorry, allergies". 

[Pyreaux]

I think everyone is rather sensitive to when people show emotion. It's not comfortable to watch, but it certainly accepted that a crying person, who's not an actor, is being real, whether they are feeling sorrow, regret, gratitude, or joy. The Zoomer generation really values authenticity, so I'd keep crying. I don't let myself go, that's because I'm an ugly cryer.

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

I am of that generation that were told that  ' men don't cry ' . If I saw a man cry then I assumed there was something seriously wrong. On the other hand there was one gentleman who cried every time he bore his testimony which was nearly every month. It seemed not genuine after a while. We still have a box of tissues at the pulpit just in case. 

I am told " there is no crying in baseball " . Anywhere else is OK. 

It was in the late 19th century that the British and Americans started feminizing crying. The British through their Empire spread it worldwide. We have been dealing with it ever since.

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

I’m guessing the Savior got away with crying while preaching and ministering because he’s God?

Obviously the Savior had emotions, too.

The OP isn't saying there's something wrong with crying. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, blackstrap said:

am told " there is no crying in baseball "

Of course not.  It is too blah, too long, and nonviolent so why would anyone be prone to cry because of it, except perhaps out of boredom.  Only the losers have a reason to cry and that would be poor sportsmanship.

 

[Calm]

The two experiences I identify as most obvious spiritual experiences in my life were as close to nonemotional as they come for me.  They were similar to when a burst of adrenaline hits due to me latching on to some idea or need that then cranks my cognitive functions up high, I hyperfocus and go into analytical/creative mode.  When the Spirit acted on me those two times it was sharing information with me, initially at least…the sense of peace followed the initial encounter…and whether the Spirit needed me up and fully primed to go or the effect of the Spirit got me there, I don’t know, but such a clarity of thought…except for the very serious nature of the moment, I would categorize it as a very fun experience.

I honestly don’t feel the Spirit at church much, at least what I identify as the Spirit because for me that includes a sharing of knowledge or awareness.  So I identify the experiences as more emotional and it’s more about linking into a sense of community with those around me, a unique sense because it’s a unique community for me. It is not less edifying or uplifting than the experiences I identify as spiritual, just very different, less intimate and immediate, I feel more expanded rather than focused.  

I think given my makeup, it is very difficult for me to experience or at least sense the Spirit when there are others around me as the awareness and experience of them and other externals overwhelms my ability to sense the Spirit, a very internal sensation for me (except for when a medication suppressed that sensation completely and then I somehow found the Spirit talking to me through others).

But just because that is my experience doesn’t mean I believe others have the same limitation, though I do think the tears often come for others from what I can tell because of the sense of connecting to others and feeling love towards and from them….and if that is the reason, then it’s one of the best reasons to cry, imo.

Edited August 24, 2024 by Calm

[juliann]

Armand Mauss wrote about kleenex boxes replacing Bibles at the pulpit (he didn't mean it as a judgment.) So it is cultural for the most part, IMO. I don't like it is when people get teary the minute they start talking but other than that, stuff happens.