Nevada temple problem

[webbles]

15 minutes ago, morgan.deane said:

I'm color blind so its always a bit tough on these things, but if I read the map correctly, A1 and A2 refer to the rural preservation zones north and east of the proposed temple lot. I was referring to the the temple, which as you said, isn't disallowed by zoning. I was also referring to everything south of Alexander road, which is not limited to more than 2 units per acre.  This is same disinformation that is being peddled around town trying to put the temple in a zone where it doesn't belong and trying to act like this area isn't already surrounded by suburban sprawl. I go to Lone Mountain often, and the area is nice, but the mountain has a city that's grown around it, so its not some bucolic getaway even with the limit in part of the area. Please see the satellite imagery I provided. It wouldn't hurt to take more careful look at the map YOU PROVIDED as well.

The temple lot is in zone A2.  I agree the map is hard to view but there are red Xs on the temple lot.  Between the temple lot and Alexander road is zone B.  You are correct that the temple is not in the rural preservation zone.  And you are correct that everything south of Alexander road is not in the Interlocal agreement and so could have apartment complexes.

[california boy]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

I expect the church to make changes to the design.  They are in the very beginning of the city approval process.  The city hasn't yet approved anything.  There was a planned meeting a few days ago to talk about the rezoning but the church asked for that to be delayed so that they can present both the rezoning and the plan concept.  It seems like they want to try and show how it isn't as bad as everyone is talking but I would expect the church to make changes if the city requires them.  For instance, the Tuscon Temple doesn't have a steeple because the city wouldn't budge on giving a variance.  It was initially designed with a steeple in mind but now has a dome instead.

Well this is definitely a good step. I would hope the Church would use this extra time to start working with the community maybe using a neutral professional to conduct the meetings before submitting plans.  Doing a major reach out program at this stage would likely pay off in a big way to calming feelings against the Church both within the community and the approval committees.  I guess we will see what approach they choose. 

Edited April 28, 2024 by california boy

[ZealouslyStriving]

28 minutes ago, webbles said:

The complaint speculates that the church was behind the code change so that it wouldn't have to request a variance for the height.

And Jews run all the banks. 🙄

[Amulek]

21 hours ago, california boy said:

I don’t know all the existing buildings around the area on this particular temple proposal.

For the McKinney temple, I am very familiar with the area. My daughter works in the Fairview Town Center shopping center which is just a mile away from the proposed site.

 

Quote

If my suggestion is not helpful then just ignore it. But at some point if the protests fights against the church keep happening maybe the Church should start asking why it keeps happening and see if there are things that can be done to mitigate these issues.

I don't find anything objectionable about your suggestion to have the Church seek buy-in from the community.

But, on the flip side, at some point the Church needs to stand up for its right to be treated fairly as well. 

 

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Or do you think people just hate the Mormon Church.  If that is the case then maybe the Church should find out why. 

I have lived in Texas pretty much my entire life. Trust me, I'm fairly up to speed on why folks around here don't care for the Mormon Church. 

 

[Amulek]

14 hours ago, webbles said:

The odd statement about steeples being church observance is related to the McKinney Temple, not the Lone Mountain Temple.  That statement is odd because the city didn't seem to have that much of an issue with the steeple (per the city commission, they had approved 154' bell tower for another church https://fairviewtexas.org/images/McKinney_LDS_Temple_complete_PZ.pdf)

I've got family in McKinney, and the odd statement you are referring to was not present on the petition they signed. They had manned tables on both sides of the foyers yesterday with both a schematic and a rendering of the proposed temple, along with a petition you could sign which read as follows (see screenshot below):

The property for the proposed McKinney Temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is located on Stacy Road, west of Meandering Way and adjacent to the Church's chapel in the Town of Fairview, TX. The Temple will consist of two floors and a partial basement (approx. 45,375 total sq ft) and will have one steeple with a spire rising to approximately 173'-8". Lighting and parking will conform to Fairview requirements. The Temple elevation and site plans are attached. Hearings with opportunities for public input will be held by the Town of Fairview. To show your support for the project, please sign this petition. This Petition may be included in the public record. Please PRINT legibly, one name per line.

[Amulek]

17 hours ago, 2BizE said:

Do you think temple ordinances performed in steeple-less temples will be voided and need to be performed again in a temple with a steeple? 

I do not.

Nor do I think that people ought to use the force of government to prevent religious groups from building houses of worship with steeples, crosses, domes, minarets, etc. 

 

[MiserereNobis]

On 4/27/2024 at 3:45 PM, california boy said:

Having served as president of a home owners association

I knew you were devil spawn  

[Doctor Steuss]

On 4/27/2024 at 8:35 PM, Bernard Gui said:

Catholic cathedrals, Russian and Orthodox church buildings, mosques, big box churches, Protestant churches, and Buddhist temples tend to be somewhat visible, too. Three of our largest buildings here are the Methodist, Catholic, and First Baptist. The Missionary Baptist not so much.

The largest Catholic cathedral in Las Vegas is 66 feet tall, and is downtown on Las Vegas Blvd, right across from a 630 foot tall casino.

Not sure this really works as a comparative with this particular Temple.

[Amulek]

46 minutes ago, Doctor Steuss said:

The largest Catholic cathedral in Las Vegas is 66 feet tall, and is downtown on Las Vegas Blvd, right across from a 630 foot tall casino.

Not sure this really works as a comparative with this particular Temple.

Well, in Dallas there's a cathedral with a 224" spire (link). Like they say, everything's bigger in Texas.

Note: It's situated in downtown Dallas, so it doesn't come close to towering over anything at all.

 

[Doctor Steuss]

16 hours ago, Amulek said:

Well, in Dallas there's a cathedral with a 224" spire (link). Like they say, everything's bigger in Texas.

Note: It's situated in downtown Dallas, so it doesn't come close to towering over anything at all.

 

Always jealous of places that have old buildings.  Here, if something is more than 60 years old, it's on a borrowed time to be demolished and replaced with something new.

[Teancum]

On 4/28/2024 at 2:28 PM, bluebell said:

But, when the church was trying to build the temple in Billings Montana, we had people coming up to protest from the neighboring state (wyoming), some 90 miles or so away.  According to them, we worshipped a different Jesus and were the spawn of Satan.  The mega church that was situation a few miles away from the proposed temple lot started advertising the playing of "The Godmakers" so people could see for themselves how dangerous it would be to have a mormon temple in their town.

I suspect there will always be the crazy evangelical anti Mormons opposing temples just about everywhere.  They were always at the Hill Cumorah Pageant. One group was loud, with signs and blow horns and I got to know some of them. A lot of them travel all over the USA making a raucous at pageants and temple open houses and such.  They are rather despicable in their behavior.

[longview]

49 minutes ago, Teancum said:

A lot of them travel all over the USA making a raucous at pageants and temple open houses and such.  They are rather despicable in their behavior.

Interesting. How far were they kept from the audience, the performance and the parking lot? Did the church set up extra loudspeakers next to the protestors (so that they will get the "full body" sound massage)?   

[Teancum]

On 4/29/2024 at 9:34 AM, Amulek said:

I have lived in Texas pretty much my entire life. Trust me, I'm fairly up to speed on why folks around here don't care for the Mormon Church. 

 

Why don't the Texas folks care for the church?

[Teancum]

26 minutes ago, longview said:

Interesting. How far were they kept from the audience, the performance and the parking lot? Did the church set up extra loudspeakers next to the protestors (so that they will get the "full body" sound massage)?   

They were right next to the property long some grass between the road and where the Hill Cumorah property started.  They has to be quiet while pageant was going on. Police made them be quiet during that time. But before and after they were really in your face.  I once took a friend and his wife who are not members. My friend is a large man and a no nonsense guy. He was very upset by the anti protesters and kept asking me if we should go beat the crap out of them.  ☺️

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

My friend is a large man and a no nonsense guy. He was very upset by the anti protesters and kept asking me if we should go beat the crap out of them.  ☺️

That was sweet of him, being bothered for your sake and others (I assume it was annoying to him, but not personally offensive, so it was his protectiveness that led him to feel the need).

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

Why don't the Texas folks care for the church?

Mostly for our religious beliefs: both real and imagined.

 

[Teancum]

19 minutes ago, Calm said:

That was sweet of him, being bothered for your sake and others (I assume it was annoying to him, but not personally offensive, so it was his protectiveness that led him to feel the need).

I do think he actually was highly offended for me and others. He is a wonderful friend.

[Kenngo1969]

12 hours ago, Teancum said:

I suspect there will always be the crazy evangelical anti Mormons opposing temples just about everywhere.  They were always at the Hill Cumorah Pageant. One group was loud, with signs and blow horns and I got to know some of them. A lot of them travel all over the USA making a raucous at pageants and temple open houses and such.  They are rather despicable in their behavior.

I'm sure that, indeed, the ruckus they make is raucous!  Just sayin'!    (In fact, like you, come to think of it, I have experienced that firsthand.  A few years ago, I sang in a regional choir in General Conference.  "Walking the gauntlet" while leaving Conference, with sister missionaries and youth groups and their leaders singing the songs of Zion on one side of us and street screechers yellin' about how we were going to hell on the other side of us was ... interesting! )

[Bernard Gui]

On 4/29/2024 at 5:03 PM, Doctor Steuss said:

The largest Catholic cathedral in Las Vegas is 66 feet tall, and is downtown on Las Vegas Blvd, right across from a 630 foot tall casino.

Not sure this really works as a comparative with this particular Temple.

I guess it depends on which God is worshipped.

[Doctor Steuss]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:48 PM, Bernard Gui said:

I guess it depends on which God is worshipped.

Mammon does seem to have the biggest and brightest temples around these parts.

[morgan.deane]

An update on the temple in the local paper: https://eedition.reviewjournal.com/infinity/article_popover_share.aspx?guid=80ffa86d-11ee-44d2-9d9b-622a0a3999e2&share=true

The biggest thing I noticed is that, according to this article, the city doesn't count the steeple for purposes of height. According to city code, the building is technically 68 feet. This makes me feel rather validated because its the most frequent argument I've made. Some of the nimbys have compared the temple to the Durango casino, but that is really misleading since outside of the steeple the temple isn't nearly as big as everyone makes it out to be. Anyways, I found the story informative. 

Edited May 8, 2024 by morgan.deane

[webbles]

1 hour ago, morgan.deane said:

An update on the temple in the local paper: https://eedition.reviewjournal.com/infinity/article_popover_share.aspx?guid=80ffa86d-11ee-44d2-9d9b-622a0a3999e2&share=true

The biggest thing I noticed is that, according to this article, the city doesn't count the steeple for purposes of height. According to city code, the building is technically 68 feet. This makes me feel rather validated because its the most frequent argument I've made. Some of the nimbys have compared the temple to the Durango casino, but that is really misleading since outside of the steeple the temple isn't nearly as big as everyone makes it out to be. Anyways, I found the story informative. 

That link goes to an article on the Trump trial.  I think https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/las-vegas/las-vegas-lds-temple-plan-scrutinized-citys-decision-far-from-final-3046881/ is the article you are talking about.

[morgan.deane]

13 minutes ago, webbles said:

That link goes to an article on the Trump trial.  I think https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/las-vegas/las-vegas-lds-temple-plan-scrutinized-citys-decision-far-from-final-3046881/ is the article you are talking about.

Thanks. Not sure how that happened but the online edition I read is often glitchy. 

Edited May 8, 2024 by morgan.deane

[bluebell]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:16 AM, california boy said:

 Or do you think people just hate the Mormon Church.  If that is the case then maybe the Church should find out why. 

I already responded to this once (which I don't think received a reply but I could have easily missed it) but the church has been moving around construction material at the Cody Wyoming temple site (it hasn't started building yet because it's still in litigation over complaints of light pollution and a proposed spire height of 110 feet) which prompted some interest in that town and a news article about it.

Here is a quote from a Cody resident about the temple.  

Quote

 

One local resident, JJ Counts, filmed himself at the site entrance on Tuesday, reading a scripture from the book of James that chastises those who have hoarded wealth. Counts, who also brought signs, suggested chaining oneself to a crane in protest.

“This is worse than fentanyl in [the] neighborhood, pushing religion and government corruption,” he wrote in a comment posted to the Cody Area Classifieds Facebook group.

Powell resident Christopher Huhnke, however, said he was amazed at how many people were “choosing to be absolutely miserable about something that has at worst a minimal impact on their daily lives.”

“If you are comfortable enough in your existence that you can spend your free time stalking construction workers and complaining don’t you think that time could be better spent doing ... well, anything else?” Huhnke wrote in one of the several threads on the subject.

 

What should the church do about people who argue that having a temple in their neighborhood is worse for residents than fentanyl?

[ZealouslyStriving]

For anyone looking to take a road trip next week, we got this last week at church- come and join with us: