Nevada temple problem

[Doctor Steuss]

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I figured it out!  It was a stupid AI article and I didn't notice.  It looks like it had combined incorrect info about this new LV temple with info from the exist LV temple and reported that the highest Las Vegas temple spire was 240 feet while the temple was 137 feet tall. 

Rascally AI stuff has gotten me a few times lately too.  Here I thought our new computer overlords would look to enslave us in a dystopian hellscape... when they actually just want to annoy us by making goulash with random disparate factoids.

(If the ultimate goal is still enslavement of the human species... I just want to say I still welcome and love our new computer overlords.)

[longview]

Regarding the demolition of temples, KUTV (Utah channel) seems to think the Provo temple will be completely replaced. Pictures of the Rock Canyon temple appears to be radically different. @Calm do you know about this?

[webbles]

3 minutes ago, longview said:

Regarding the demolition of temples, KUTV (Utah channel) seems to think the Provo temple will be completely replaced. Pictures of the Rock Canyon temple appears to be radically different. @Calm do you know about this?

It has been described as a "reconstruction" ( https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/october-2021-general-conference-new-temples and https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/news-for-three-temples-in-us ) and a "major redesign and exterior overhaul" ( https://www.thechurchnews.com/2021/11/24/23217912/redesigned-provo-utah-temple-exterior-rendering/ ).

When I heard about it, it sounded like what they did to the Ogden Temple.  But you can see pictures of the current demolition at https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/provo-utah-rock-canyon-temple/photographs/.  It looks like they are destroying the entire base level.  I don't believe that was done for the Ogden Temple during its overhaul.  So maybe it will be an actual demolition?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, longview said:

Regarding the demolition of temples, KUTV (Utah channel) seems to think the Provo temple will be completely replaced. Pictures of the Rock Canyon temple appears to be radically different. @Calm do you know about this?

Not been paying attention because of not going by there anymore (I am not someone who drives for pleasure, just to get somewhere and with no more family, that means no more driving).  @smac97may know more about it, but if he and no one else knows, I will ask my daughter-in-law to ask her mom who works at BYU or the MTC as she might know.  It is not our temple though, we go to Payson, so she might not be paying attention either.

My husband is always looking for an excuse to get out the motorcycle…and maybe my niece who goes to BYU lives nearby enough, she is interested, so if Smac isn’t up on it, remind me to ask around…maybe get some snaps from my husband( I got the impression smac is more southwest Provo for some strange reason as I don’t think he ever shared where he lived…maybe because that is the part of Provo I am more familiar with).

Edited April 25, 2024 by Calm

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Not been paying attention because of not going by there anymore (I am not someone who drives for pleasure, just to get somewhere and with no more family, that means no more driving).  @smac97may know more about it, but if he and no one else knows, I will ask my daughter-in-law to ask her mom who works at BYU or the MTC as she might know.  It is not our temple though, we go to Payson, so she might not be paying attention either.

My husband is always looking for an excuse to get out the motorcycle…and maybe my niece who goes to BYU lives nearby enough, she is interested, so if Smac isn’t up on it, remind me to ask around…maybe get some snaps from my husband( I got the impression smac is more southwest Provo for some strange reason as I don’t think he ever shared where he lived…maybe because that is the part of Provo I am more familiar with).

It sure could use a renovation overhaul! And it sits on such a pretty spot there. My aunt and uncle lived above the temple on the hill in a nice area while alive. My uncle was a BYU professor, and I remember many times visiting their home and driving by the temple and looking down on it. 

[Calm]

It is a beautiful setting.

[morgan.deane]

I live in North Las Vegas (though the Lone Mountain isn't a straight shot so its only shaves about ten minutes off the drive time compared to the current location.) Those who make comments about the lights of Las Vegas don't realize that the city is huge. There are lots of parts of town that have nothing to do with the strip. There are parts far enough away and sparsely populated enough that have dark skies and nice views. That leads to the second point which is that there is a small rural preservation zone near the proposed Lone Mountain temple, but the temple is not in that zone. I had to look at three poor maps (thanks for the cross streets church: https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2024/02/26/exterior-renderings-released-lone-mountain-nevada-mckinney-texas-birmingham-england-temple/ and the rural preservation zones: https://www.donohueteam.com/NWSite/RNP.htm cross checked with google maps) but the temple is not in one of those zones. It looks to be in the missing piece in the southwest part of the zone.  

But everyone wants those views which means everything not in the preservation zone is growing fast. That leads to the ironic part is that most of these nimbys only moved to that area in the last 10 years, maybe 20 max. But due to all the housing developments in as little as a few years there aren't going to be any "views" or rural character in that area anyway. Its mostly that way already but there are always parcels to backfill, hills to climb, and shopping or gas stations to add. So this is mostly really rich people on big lots that want to stay exclusive. Based on satellite images this part of town is already a little oasis surrounded by typical urban sprawl with or without the temple. If you look at satellite photos on a larger level Northwest LV looks like a mouth ready to close its jaws around the remaining areas open to development: https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/urban-growth-las-vegas-nevada-usa

I'm not sure if its been said yet, but the 226 feet is the steeple height. I haven't been able to find information, but the rest of the temple seems much smaller. But it doesn't matter, this region is fighting a losing fight. 

Hope that helps. Personally, I look forward to having this conversation dozens of times over the next little while, only with the added grace and maturity of facebook discussions and casual anti Mormon bigotry. /s

Edited April 25, 2024 by morgan.deane

[Teancum]

On 4/22/2024 at 6:48 PM, blackstrap said:

The proposed design does seem out of place for its location. Why so big? A new temple in my area is half the size and it will serve at least 6 stakes.

 

Anger erupts in Nevada town as residents resist big Mormon temple (msn.com)

I am curious as to why the church abandoned the small temple model.  Ours in Palmyra is very small and typically has limited hours and one has to schedule temple attendance and ordinance work. Are these newer and large temples on limited hours?

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, morgan.deane said:

I live in North Las Vegas (though the Lone Mountain isn't a straight shot so its only shaves about ten minutes off the drive time compared to the current location.) Those who make comments about the lights of Las Vegas don't realize that the city is huge. There are lots of parts of town that have nothing to do with the strip. There are parts far enough away and sparsely populated enough that have dark skies and nice views. That leads to the second point which is that there is a small rural preservation zone near the proposed Lone Mountain temple, but the temple is not in that zone. I had to look at three poor maps (thanks for the cross streets church: https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2024/02/26/exterior-renderings-released-lone-mountain-nevada-mckinney-texas-birmingham-england-temple/ and the rural preservation zones: https://www.donohueteam.com/NWSite/RNP.htm cross checked with google maps) but the temple is not in one of those zones. It looks to be in the missing piece in the southwest part of the zone.  

But everyone wants those views which means everything not in the preservation zone is growing fast. That leads to the ironic part is that most of these nimbys only moved to that area in the last 10 years, maybe 20 max. But due to all the housing developments in as little as a few years there aren't going to be any "views" or rural character in that area anyway. Its mostly that way already but there are always parcels to backfill, hills to climb, and shopping or gas stations to add. So this is mostly really rich people on big lots that want to stay exclusive. Based on satellite images this part of town is already a little oasis surrounded by typical urban sprawl with or without the temple. If you look at satellite photos on a larger level Northwest LV looks like a mouth ready to close its jaws around the remaining areas open to development: https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/urban-growth-las-vegas-nevada-usa

I'm not sure if its been said yet, but the 226 feet is the steeple height. I haven't been able to find information, but the rest of the temple seems much smaller. But it doesn't matter, this region is fighting a losing fight. 

Hope that helps. Personally, I look forward to having this conversation dozens of times over the next little while, only with the added grace and maturity of facebook discussions and casual anti Mormon bigotry. /s

I saw on the news a woman from probably close to there, said a coyote came to her backyard and can't remember, but think it may have killed her dog, or something. But it's right outside everyone's doors it appeared there. Do you have this problem or have you heard of it?

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I am curious as to why the church abandoned the small temple model.  Ours in Palmyra is very small and typically has limited hours and one has to schedule temple attendance and ordinance work. Are these newer and large temples on limited hours?

They are still doing small temples too. All of the temples in Wyoming (including one just dedicated in Casper and the proposed Cody temple) are basically the same size as the palmyra one. I think it’s based on the population size of the area and the number of members likely to use it and be able to staff it.

I was able to visit the Palmyra temple in 2016. The stained glass is gorgeous.

[Doctor Steuss]

8 hours ago, morgan.deane said:

There are parts far enough away and sparsely populated enough that have dark skies and nice views.

I guess "dark skies" can be a relative term.  I have to drive way out past Apex to be able to watch meteor showers.  If I want to see the Milky Way, it's at least another 30 minutes of driving (at minimum) to get out of the halo from the dome of the valley's light pollution.  Sure, it can "feel" dark in some of the less developed areas, but the night sky is definitely heavily muted anywhere in the valley, and for several miles outside of it also.

[Tacenda]

32 minutes ago, Doctor Steuss said:

I guess "dark skies" can be a relative term.  I have to drive way out past Apex to be able to watch meteor showers.  If I want to see the Milky Way, it's at least another 30 minutes of driving (at minimum) to get out of the halo from the dome of the valley's light pollution.  Sure, it can "feel" dark in some of the less developed areas, but the night sky is definitely heavily muted anywhere in the valley, and for several miles outside of it also.

I'm going to Capital Reef and Goblin Valley in May, and can't wait to see some stars!

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm going to Capital Reef and Goblin Valley in May, and can't wait to see some stars!

We were in that area a few weeks ago camping and the stars were insane.  Nothing beats camping stars.

[Doctor Steuss]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'm going to Capital Reef and Goblin Valley in May, and can't wait to see some stars!

Every summer, my family goes to Bryce Canyon area, where my mother grew up and my uncle maintains a "ranch" that my great-grandfather homesteaded.  Even as a kid in the 80's, I remember how magical it was going from the seemingly dead skies of Las Vegas, to the vibrant crowded sky of high-altitude rural goodness.

Even as I have evidently become progressively more delicious to mosquitos and deer flies (aged Stu blood wine, I guess), I'll sacrifice my flesh to just listen to silence and zone out as the Milky Way slowly rotates.

It's incredible how somewhere that you have never lived can feel more like "home" than any other place.

Edited April 25, 2024 by Doctor Steuss

[Teancum]

On 4/23/2024 at 10:37 AM, Doctor Steuss said:

As an aside, the Las Vegas Temple is only operating at half capacity (and still at somewhat reduced hours), and that's with the (modest) overflow they are (or were) getting from St. George.  There are four rooms.  They only use two.

This just seems so weird to me.

Just kind of looking at the map, I'd gauge that even at the height of rush hour, it'd be about an hour drive from that neighborhood to the already built and underutilized Las Vegas Temple.  Outside of rush hour, you could probably make the drive in 30-40 minutes.

Millions of dollars, in perpetuity, to save a handful of people a 40 minute drive.

Sort of feels like the massive chapel building of the late 50s and early to mid 60s. Except this time it seems the church has a lot of money to cover the cost of the buildings.

[blackstrap]

Many years ago I was on a flight at night that came near Las Vegas. The pilot flew over the area and we were treated to the bright jewel in the surrounding blackness. I imagine Vegas has expanded considerably in the past 40+ years. 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

I am curious as to why the church abandoned the small temple model.  Ours in Palmyra is very small and typically has limited hours and one has to schedule temple attendance and ordinance work. Are these newer and large temples on limited hours?

My husband and I went on a getaway trip a few years ago first to Buffalo and drove to Palmyra and on to New York. I loved the area and being able to be where the whole Latter-day Saint religion began and seeing places I'd only read about. Funny I was more interested in the history of the church after my crisis of faith. We also went to Nauvoo later on. 

So you live in the Palmyra area? How cool!

[Teancum]

On 4/23/2024 at 11:11 AM, ZealouslyStriving said:

I believe the brethren are very aware of the demographics of the areas where Houses of the Lord are being announced, yet they continue to build at an unprecedented rate. I would hope that would show people that they are aware of something coming which we as general members are not yet privy to- perhaps the Second Coming being fairly soon (for which a larger temple infrastructure needs to be in place) or an unexpected massive influx of new and returning members all extremely serious about temple work.

These are very intelligent men, they wouldn't just throw money at building things that are going to be useless. There is a reason behind all this.

I am  to sure that your trust is fully warranted. There was an ambitious building program inn the 50s and 60s that caused the church to run annual deficits for many years and was likely one reason they stopped publishing the church financial statements. But now, the church is incredibly wealthy and the building of numerous temple that will likely be under utilized is easily manageable from the financial side. In my opinion the leaders are announcing and building temples at this increased paec to create an image of growth and  stengththat ha not been and currently is not there like it uses to be.

[morgan.deane]

1 hour ago, Doctor Steuss said:

I guess "dark skies" can be a relative term.  I have to drive way out past Apex to be able to watch meteor showers.  If I want to see the Milky Way, it's at least another 30 minutes of driving (at minimum) to get out of the halo from the dome of the valley's light pollution.  Sure, it can "feel" dark in some of the less developed areas, but the night sky is definitely heavily muted anywhere in the valley, and for several miles outside of it also.

Good point. I was more refuting people who think Las Vegas is like Blade Runner and we all have some neon building lighting up our rooms at night. 

[morgan.deane]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I saw on the news a woman from probably close to there, said a coyote came to her backyard and can't remember, but think it may have killed her dog, or something. But it's right outside everyone's doors it appeared there. Do you have this problem or have you heard of it?

I looked at some houses that far out when I first moved here, but I bought something more in town and don't personally have that problem. I have seen coyotes out on the edge of town though. People's ring cameras catch all sorts of animals out on the edge.  

[Doctor Steuss]

5 minutes ago, morgan.deane said:

Good point. I was more refuting people who think Las Vegas is like Blade Runner and we all have some neon building lighting up our rooms at night. 

The Blade Runner comparison legitimately made me audibly do an ugly giggle-snort.

Edited April 25, 2024 by Doctor Steuss

[Teancum]

On 4/23/2024 at 1:22 PM, longview said:

Is it possible that the existing LV temple will eventually be removed? It is interesting to me that the very large Jordan River temple in SLC was completely demolished and rebuilt. As has happened with a number of other temples.

I was not aware that the Jordan River temple was demolished and rebuilt. Amazing. I guess when an organization has as much money as the church they can afford to do such things that honestly are seemingly wasteful IMO.

[ksfisher]

5 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I was not aware that the Jordan River temple was demolished and rebuilt. Amazing. I guess when an organization has as much money as the church they can afford to do such things that honestly are seemingly wasteful IMO.

It wasn't.

Edited April 25, 2024 by ksfisher

[Teancum]

On 4/23/2024 at 7:10 PM, Tacenda said:

The trouble hasn't begun yet, it's preventing the problem. The church sent a letter to multiple stakes asking members to write the Fairview planning manager in support of the Mckinney Temple in the neighborhood. And the steeple being part of the temple observance. Or stressing how important the height of the steeple is, something like that. So I got it wrong, it's prevention of a problem down the road.

Is the steeple really that important, since some temples don't have them? I wonder why the church won't just omit it where it might be a problem.    

THe letter that highlights how important the spire is for "religious observation" is a new twist and the language is unique and as far as I know, the church has never taught that a hugh steeple is an intrinsic part to DS religious observances.  There are a number of temples without spires or steeples. It seems  the church is using the language that comes from a law that was passed in the early 2000s that prohibits communities the object to religious structures if the structures are part of a denominations religious observances.  Here is a link to that law: https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2021/05/27/how-rluipa-protects-the-right-to-use-land-for-religious-purposes/?slreturn=20240325142657

[Teancum]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

They are still doing small temples too. All of the temples in Wyoming (including one just dedicated in Casper and the proposed Cody temple) are basically the same size as the palmyra one. I think it’s based on the population size of the area and the number of members likely to use it and be able to staff it.

I was able to visit the Palmyra temple in 2016. The stained glass is gorgeous.

The stained glass was a special request from President Hinckley.