6 Entire Families in Croydon Australia Ward Excommunicated err...had Memberships Removed

[Craig Speechly]

In a stunning development, 6 families all from the Croydon Australia Ward were Ex'd on the same weekend. These were large families who's members made up close to the entire ward primary...both leadership and children.  I've heard but can't confirm that it depleted the ward roster by nearly 35% of its active ward membership.

Their sin?  Passing out a truthful but less than faith promoting pamphlet on Church History.

[webbles]

Any other details?  How do we know that was why they were removed?

[Craig Speechly]

15 minutes ago, webbles said:

Any other details?  How do we know that was why they were removed?

I have lots of mates in Oz, I can only share what I'm told.  I know that many of these wards are lead by very traditionally believing members.  Joseph with a rock is controversial.  I was told that that was the reason that they lost their membership.

Edited January 17, 2024 by Craig Speechly

[teddyaware]

9 minutes ago, Craig Speechly said:

In a stunning development, 6 families all from the Croydon Australia Ward were Ex'd on the same weekend. These were large families who's members made up close to the entire ward primary...both leadership and children.  I've heard but can't confirm that it depleted the ward roster by nearly 35% of its active ward membership.

Their sin?  Passing out a truthful but less than faith promoting pamphlet on Church History.

So some disaffected members hand out anti-Mormon literature at church, and we’re supposed to be shocked and outraged that they were excommunicated? 

[Craig Speechly]

1 minute ago, teddyaware said:

So some disaffected members hand out anti-Mormon literature at church, and we’re supposed to be shocked and outraged that they were excommunicated? 

What "IS" anti-Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints literature?  The so called anti Mormon literature from days of yore is now widely accepted as truthful but not faith promoting and less flattering church history.  While we might disagree with the perspective of the Nauvoo Expositor, I think we can all agree that it's accusations have been more or less proven to be correct and largely truthful.

And these were not disaffected members, they were the backbone of this ward serving in leadership positions and filling ward callings.

[webbles]

46 minutes ago, Craig Speechly said:

I have lots of mates in Oz, I can only share what I'm told.  I know that many of these wards are lead by very traditionally believing members.  Joseph with a rock is controversial.  I was told that that was the reason that they lost their membership.

I've found a reference to this on reddit and it doesn't have much information either.  There's also Australian members mentioning it there.  So it seems like so far, there is not much information on what happened or why it happened.  Until more is known (which might never happen), I'll just say that I hope the families and the ward is ok.

[Craig Speechly]

Just now, webbles said:

I've found a reference to this on reddit and it doesn't have much information either.  There's also Australian members mentioning it there.  So it seems like so far, there is not much information on what happened or why it happened.  Until more is known (which might never happen), I'll just say that I hope the families and the ward is ok.

I have an inside source and yes these kinds of situations are hard on a small wards.

[bluebell]

The children were excommunicated?

[rpn]

1 hour ago, Craig Speechly said:

The so called anti Mormon literature from days of yore is now widely accepted as truthful but not faith promoting and less flattering church history

I think that if it isn't recently published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, distributing it at church would  be a problem.   Having membership withdrawn requires doing it AFTER having been told by the bishop/stake president not to do it (or something similar, so I would  suspect there may be more to the story.   I hope those families return at some point.

ETA:  Since members are instructed not to spend spend their own money, but use budgets to fund their calling, presumably whatever one hands out should be known and paid for by church leaders in advance of distribution too.

Edited January 18, 2024 by rpn

[webbles]

50 minutes ago, Craig Speechly said:

I have an inside source and yes these kinds of situations are hard on a small wards.

The reddit person also has an inside source (maybe you are the same person).  He's willing to talk to Dehlin so maybe if Dehlin takes him up, we might get some more information.  But, based on the level of information (what was distributed?), we really don't know what happened.  It reminds me of a ward I know of where over half the membership was brought before a disciplinary council and most were excommunicated or disfellowship.  Their sin?  Not sustaining the bishop.  Of course, it turned out to be more than that but the thing that triggered the "investigation" was not sustaining the bishop.

[Stargazer]

Long time ago in a German city I'd prefer not to name, the branch (this was before the local stake was organized) also had a bit of a problem that resulted in a number of excommunications and the closing of the branch. It happened some years before I arrived as a missionary in that mission, so I got this second- or even third-hand from a missionary companion who had worked in the ward where the un-exed members were transferred to. The problem was that two members started telling about visions or revelations, and a number of other members got on board, sustaining these two as prophets. I don't know how many excommunications resulted, but it was obviously a serious situation. This was sometime before 1972, not sure how long before.

Today, however, this city again has a ward in it. 

It's not unprecedented that these things happen. And we'll probably never know for sure what happened in the Oz city.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Craig Speechly said:

  I was told that that was the reason that they lost their membership.

There are different ways to share facts, within a context that invites or allows faith and one that dismisses or excludes faithful options of interpretation.  Presenting the rock in the hat with church materials is likely going to resort in a quite different reaction than using a pamphlet created by an anti Mormon site.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Craig Speechly said:

The so called anti Mormon literature from days of yore is now widely accepted as truthful

By whom?  I am not speaking of individual examples as that is not what you are claiming here, but generally speaking…what percentage of anti Mormon literature has been accepted as for the most part truthful and accurate and not adding in false claims, interpretations, etc?  And by whom?  If you mean by scholars in general, then you should be able to provide quotes by some saying say “The God Makers”…a highly popular anti Mormon production is truthful, if not faithful. 

Edited January 18, 2024 by Calm

[Craig Speechly]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

The children were excommunicated?

Yeah that’s doesn’t seem likely at all.  Probably just the adults. 

[Craig Speechly]

48 minutes ago, webbles said:

The reddit person also has an inside source (maybe you are the same person).  He's willing to talk to Dehlin so maybe if Dehlin takes him up, we might get some more information.  But, based on the level of information (what was distributed?), we really don't know what happened.  It reminds me of a ward I know of where over half the membership was brought before a disciplinary council and most were excommunicated or disfellowship.  Their sin?  Not sustaining the bishop.  Of course, it turned out to be more than that but the thing that triggered the "investigation" was not sustaining the bishop.

Nope. I’m not on Reddit. 

[Craig Speechly]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

By whom?  I am not speaking of individual examples as that is not what you are claiming here, but generally speaking…what percentage of anti Mormon literature has been accepted as for the most part truthful and accurate and not adding in false claims, interpretations, etc?  And by whom?  If you mean by scholars in general, then you should be able to provide quotes by some saying say “The God Makers”…a highly popular anti Mormon production is truthful, if not faithful. 

The church

[Diamondhands69]

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

So some disaffected members hand out anti-Mormon literature at church, and we’re supposed to be shocked and outraged that they were excommunicated? 

If it is truthful it cannot be anti-Mormon. Unless Mormon church policy is to be less than truthful, not transparent, share only the faith-promoting truths etc. oh my bad I guess it could be anti-Mormon cuz we all know that not all truth is useful. 

[Calm]

41 minutes ago, Craig Speechly said:

The church

Wishful thinking

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, rpn said:

I think that if it isn't recently published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, distributing it at church would  be a problem.   

What has the church ever published that it wouldn’t be proud to see distributed? Even if it is outdated. Heaven knows our prophets have never said anything false. After all the prophets “always speak the truth.”  Well, sometimes they always do. 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2020/09/prophets-speak-to-us?lang=eng

 

[The Nehor]

So do we call them the “January Six”?

I am sure that won’t get confused with anything.

[rodheadlee]

Total speculation based on zero facts as to the cause. 

[halconero]

As a currently serving Bishopric member, the notion they were ex’d on the simple basis of a pamphlet doesn’t ring true.

There is a much higher threshold involving patterns of behaviour, not single acts, for removing someone’s records.

[let’s roll]

I have a choice of how to spend my time today and I am choosing not to gossip.

[LoudmouthMormon]

19 hours ago, Craig Speechly said:

Their sin?  Passing out a truthful but less than faith promoting pamphlet on Church History.

I've made a note that some anonymous guy on a message board made a linkless sourceless claim about unnamed people and a supposed church action.  I've further noted that the poster did it apparently with a straight face, even though the church pretty much never publicizes details about such things, and angry one-sided accounts about such things tend to be angry and one-sided.

In other news, I heard that [my favorite group to hate] did [thing I'm spinning as horrible and unprovoked] to [unnamed person/ppl/group].  I seek to generate outrage, and no matter how I fill in those blanks, I have exactly as much credibility as OP.  My mates told me the thing was both horrible, and unprovoked.

Edited January 18, 2024 by LoudmouthMormon

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, let’s roll said:

I have a choice of how to spend my time today and I am choosing not to gossip.

What are you going to do instead?

Go outside?

There are SNAKES out there you fool.