6 Entire Families in Croydon Australia Ward Excommunicated err...had Memberships Removed

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Total speculation based on zero facts as to the cause. 

I heard they were abducting children and forcing them to roll pizza dough in the basements of Pizza Hut restaurants but that the children are all sick now due to 5G.

[rodheadlee]

The thing that distresses me are all of the folks leaving the church when they're going to need it the most. I hope they maintain their relationship with Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father. The geopolitical situation is not looking too shiny right now.

[JustAnAustralian]

6 hours ago, halconero said:

There is a much higher threshold involving patterns of behaviour, not single acts,

Six families being involved makes it sound a lot more like ongoing planned/organised behaviour.

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

What are you going to do instead?

Go outside?

There are SNAKES out there you fool.

Gosh, I love you! Two chuckles in one day! I must be more careful, I might strain myself. 😐 

Edited January 18, 2024 by Stargazer

[rpn]

19 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

What has the church ever published that it wouldn’t be proud to see distributed? Even if it is outdated. Heaven knows our prophets have never said anything false. After all the prophets “always speak the truth.”  Well, sometimes they always do. 

Well, we don't use the former version of everything from manuals to For The Strength of Youth pamphlet.  We believe in revelation (and often that requires leaving old ways of doing things behind) and even the way we used to say it but we do it differently now.   That's not a problem for me.  

Current leaders and members using something that is no longer current advice/interpretation or even using something that is which effectively distorts Church teaching IS.

Edited January 18, 2024 by rpn

[carbon dioxide]

On 1/17/2024 at 3:11 PM, Craig Speechly said:

Joseph with a rock is controversial.  I was told that that was the reason that they lost their membership.

I am not sure why people make such a big deal regarding this.  The Urim and Thummin was a physical object.  A seer stone is a physical object.  What difference would it make if one or the other was used.  All that matters is the end product which is the Book of Mormon.  It is equivalent of a traditional narrative of JK Rowlings producing Harry Potter on a typewriter and the opposing view that she used a computer.  What difference does it make?  No reason to throw Harry Potter in the trash over it.

[carbon dioxide]

5 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

The thing that distresses me are all of the folks leaving the church when they're going to need it the most. I hope they maintain their relationship with Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father. The geopolitical situation is not looking too shiny right now.

The world is getting more dangerous in many areas.   Some people will leave the church and fewer people will seek God and join the Church.   It will get worse as we draw closer to the second coming however this is GOOD.   Everything is proceeding as it supposed to.  People who leave the church are only hurting themselves in the end.  They are not hurting God, Jesus, or the righteous.   It is just an act of spiritual suicide but they don't know it yet.

Edited January 19, 2024 by carbon dioxide

[Craig Speechly]

21 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

What has the church ever published that it wouldn’t be proud to see distributed? Even if it is outdated. Heaven knows our prophets have never said anything false. After all the prophets “always speak the truth.”  Well, sometimes they always do. 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2020/09/prophets-speak-to-us?lang=eng

 

I suspect that you’re being cheeky, Prophets have taught a long list of things that they believed were true at the time ( so they weren’t lying) that with the passage of time have been shown to not be true. 

[Craig Speechly]

21 hours ago, Calm said:

Wishful thinking

Actually many things that were once viewed as anti Mormon are now accepted as true by the church. I gave the examples of Joseph using his rock in his hat and the accusations in the nauvoo expositor as examples but there are many many others

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, Craig Speechly said:

I suspect that you’re being cheeky, Prophets have taught a long list of things that they believed were true at the time ( so they weren’t lying) that with the passage of time have been shown to not be true. 

Sooo not always speaking the truth. I agree. Problem is while they are alive they are not to be challenged. 

[JustAnAustralian]

2 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

A seer stone is a physical object.  What difference would it make if one or the other was used. 

Also given that we've had photos published since 2015 (Joseph smith papers) of said seer stone, it seems odd that anyone would face disciplinary issues for discussing it in 2024.

[Diamondhands69]

3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I am not sure why people make such a big deal regarding this.  The Urim and Thummin was a physical object.  A seer stone is a physical object.  What difference would it make if one or the other was used.  All that matters is the end product which is the Book of Mormon.  It is equivalent of a traditional narrative of JK Rowlings producing Harry Potter on a typewriter and the opposing view that she used a computer.  What difference does it make?  No reason to throw Harry Potter in the trash over it.

The lie about the urim and thummim being used to translate the Book of Mormon is what  irritates people. All because they wanted to hide JS’ involvement in black magic. 

[JustAnAustralian]

1 hour ago, Diamondhands69 said:

The lie about the urim and thummim being used to translate the Book of Mormon is what  irritates people. All because they wanted to hide JS’ involvement in black magic. 

How is JS using stones any different to Moses using his staff to part the red sea, or to make water come out of the rock?

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Craig Speechly said:

Actually many things that were once viewed as anti Mormon are now accepted as true by the church. I gave the examples of Joseph using his rock in his hat and the accusations in the nauvoo expositor as examples but there are many many others

There are a lot more antimormon accusations that had no tidbit of truth in them than do and there are plenty of presentations of the rock in the hat that would still not be accepted by the Church as accurate except for the very basic fact of the seerstone.

[Diamondhands69]

17 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

How is JS using stones any different to Moses using his staff to part the red sea, or to make water come out of the rock?

Why lie about one method. The issue isn’t so much that the claims themselves are outrageous it is lying about it. 
 

if it was the rock in a hat all along why didn’t they just teach it instead of knowingly telling a narrative that wasn’t true. 
 

maybe you are ok with church leaders lying to you. I’m not. 

[The Nehor]

12 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

The thing that distresses me are all of the folks leaving the church when they're going to need it the most. I hope they maintain their relationship with Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father. The geopolitical situation is not looking too shiny right now.

The geopolitical situation is pretty stable actually. Sure, there are regional conflicts but one of the two big autocratic powers is being shown to be a paper tiger, the situation in Israel is localized, and the latest situation with the Houthi is going to end with them getting smacked down hard. Despite their social media star pirate (and he is dreamy) the Houthi are making no friends and piracy is something pretty much the whole world takes very seriously. The economy of the world as a whole runs on cheap and safe water travel. Losing that means a huge drop in the standard of living world wide and (more importantly to many) it is messing with the money of the wealthy. As one of my favorite writers quipped: “Do you want a third Barbary war? Because this is how you get a third Barbary war.”

Then there is Myanmar, Tunisia, and Sudan and a bunch of other ongoing insurgencies and minor conflicts. On the whole the geopolitical situation is pretty stable. I don’t want to downplay the suffering current conflicts are causing where they are happening as they are having horrific effects but there isn’t a lot of escalation that is likely from what is going on right now. Things can always change and even change quickly but I don’t see indications they will.

Edited January 19, 2024 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

The lie about the urim and thummim being used to translate the Book of Mormon is what  irritates people. All because they wanted to hide JS’ involvement in black magic. 

Black magic? What does that even mean?

[Stormin' Mormon]

9 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

The lie about the urim and thummim being used to translate the Book of Mormon is what  irritates people. All because they wanted to hide JS’ involvement in black magic. 

Black Magic =/= Folk Magic. 

[Diamondhands69]

58 minutes ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

Black Magic =/= Folk Magic. 

Folk magic

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Black magic? What does that even mean?

I meant folk magic

[Pyreaux]

Hmmm... Can Australians get around trespassing on church property if they are members? I've only once seen someone kicked off the church property, a mission2mormons guy putting anti literature on cars at church. But is it as simple while being a member?

[rodheadlee]

12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Black magic? What does that even mean?

Thanks for the report 

[LoudmouthMormon]

5 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Hmmm... Can Australians get around trespassing on church property if they are members? I've only once seen someone kicked off the church property, a mission2mormons guy putting anti literature on cars at church. But is it as simple while being a member?

In the US, anyone can be trespassed from private property by whoever owns/manages that property.  Trespassing is a process that generally looks something like this:

- Person is told to leave by someone in charge or their delegate. 
- If person doesn't leave, cops are called.  Cops verify who's in charge, and tell the person to leave. 
- If person doesn't leave, cops make some sort of official trespass warning or notice.  Person is told if they don't immediately leave, or they leave and come back, they're subject to arrest. 
- If person doesn't leave, or leaves and comes back, the cops can arrest them. 

 

The church's 2016 security guidelines say:

Quote

Responding to a Disruptive Person in a Church Meeting

If a person becomes disruptive during a Church meeting, be respectful, speak calmly and with self-control, and respect his or her personal space.

Whether the person causing the disturbance remains seated in the congregation, approaches the stand, or stands at the pulpit, approach the person and ask him or her to stop or to leave, or invite the person to meet with a priesthood leader in the foyer. Tell the person that his or her behavior or comments are inappropriate. If the person has been asked to leave but refuses, inform him or her that the police may be notified and he or she may be arrested for trespassing.

If the person refuses to leave and continues to cause a disturbance at the pulpit, turn off the microphone and dismiss the meeting. Do not attempt to physically restrain the person unless it is absolutely necessary. (Adapt these guidelines as needed for auxiliary meetings, classes, or other Church events or activities.) If a serious or dangerous disruption is occurring on Church property, call the police. When the situation is under control, notify your priesthood leader and the Church Security Department.

 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Thanks for the report 

I didn’t report anyone.

I have only submitted a few reports in my many years here and I think they were all sarcastic and designed to the amuse the mods. I once reported someone for heresy for drinking caffeinated soda for example.  The mods might hate me.

[ksfisher]

17 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I once reported someone for heresy for drinking caffeinated soda for example.

I was wondering why I was banned from that thread. 

[rodheadlee]

40 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I didn’t report anyone.

I have only submitted a few reports in my many years here and I think they were all sarcastic and designed to the amuse the mods. I once reported someone for heresy for drinking caffeinated soda for example.  The mods might hate me.

Yeah well my problem is I always look. Pippin why did you have to look? you always look.

And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth Beast say, Come and see. And I looked, behold a Pale Horse and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.