6 Entire Families in Croydon Australia Ward Excommunicated err...had Memberships Removed

[Calm]

22 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

well my problem is I always look

I was proud of myself.  For once, I controlled my curiosity (I may not push any red button that says “only in an emergency” or partake of anything that says eat or drink me, but if something says “look” or is the equivalent like the new post alert, it is not unusual that I have pressed the link before my brain has finished processing “let’s take a moment to think about this before…”.

As far as I am aware I have lucked out and not gotten any viruses from less obvious spam yet, but there have been plenty of nights I have been kicking myself as an idiot.

[Stargazer]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I didn’t report anyone.

I have only submitted a few reports in my many years here and I think they were all sarcastic and designed to the amuse the mods. I once reported someone for heresy for drinking caffeinated soda for example.  The mods might hate me.

It's good thing I wasn't drinking something when I read this. I might have spewed caffeinated beverage all over my screen!

[Craig Speechly]

On 1/18/2024 at 9:35 PM, Calm said:

There are a lot more antimormon accusations that had no tidbit of truth in them than do and there are plenty of presentations of the rock in the hat that would still not be accepted by the Church as accurate except for the very basic fact of the seerstone.

Could you provide any examples of these false accusations other than Mormons have horns type rubbish.  What are some examples of these anti Mormon accusations that had no tibbit of truth in them?  I can’t think of any.  Most are built with a tidbit of truth and then exaggerated to stretch incredulity.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Craig Speechly said:

Could you provide any examples of these false accusations other than Mormons have horns type rubbish.  What are some examples of these anti Mormon accusations that had no tibbit of truth in them?  

Do you believe Church leadership accepts antimormon accusations that Joseph instituted plural marriage because he wanted to have sex with other women besides his wife?

Do you believe Church leadership accepts the accusation that Joseph hid the rock in the hat so others couldn’t see that he was just making stuff up?

Edited January 22, 2024 by Calm

[carbon dioxide]

On 1/18/2024 at 8:35 PM, Calm said:

There are a lot more antimormon accusations that had no tidbit of truth in them than do and there are plenty of presentations of the rock in the hat that would still not be accepted by the Church as accurate except for the very basic fact of the seerstone.

Anti mormon accusations do have a tidbit of truth in them.  That is the problem.  They take a little bit of truth and then wrap that truth up in a package of lies, distortions, and straw man arguments.  Nobody believes in 100% lies.   It is hard to sell something that is 100% false. 

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Anti mormon accusations do have a tidbit of truth in them

Some do, some don’t.

Of course, if you want to claim there is a tidbit of truth, you just expand the accusation as broad as you want so you can make the claim.

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Nobody believes in 100% lies.   It is hard to sell something that is 100% false. 

I used to believe this. I was happier back then.

[Calm]

14 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Nobody believes in 100% lies.   It is hard to sell something that is 100% false. 

If you start small, convincing someone that the little stuff is true, and then build on that lie perceived as fact, it can grow surprisingly big.

People also believe stuff they want to believe even if there’s no truth in it….

warnimg:  not fit for reading by anyone under the age of 13…(I know the age is a stretch, but I heard one woman kept it going that long by doing outrageous things that “proved” it to her son because he couldn’t conceive of her actually doing them….though my guess is her kid was humoring her)

Many people want to believe there is a guy at the North Pole making presents for everyone who deserves them, regardless of their social status and that he has a better delivery system than Amazon even though he probably pays his employees even less.

Edited January 23, 2024 by Calm

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 1/21/2024 at 5:19 PM, Craig Speechly said:

Could you provide any examples of these false accusations other than Mormons have horns type rubbish.  What are some examples of these anti Mormon accusations that had no tibbit of truth in them?

I was once told to my face that we aren't allowed to read the Bible.  When I responded that we actually spend around a quarter of our Sunday School time in the Old Testament and another quarter in the New, I was reassured that no, unless something has very recently changed, we don't do that, the church frowns on us reading the Bible.  This was in like 2017-18.

I've heard from multiple sources that Utah has an inbreeding problem, and the reason we do so much missionary work is so we can bring converts back to Utah to give folks the opportunity to marry "outside blood".   And of course, there's Krakauer's 2003 claim: "There are incrementally higher rates of kidney failure because of in-breeding and the church sweeps it under the rug," and "The Mormons are keen on genealogy and know about their genetic defects, but they have covered it up."

Do either of those count?

And yes indeedily-doodily, someone actually asked my wife about her horns.  And it wasn't even rubbish.  This was on a flight, and dude was on a business trip.  Reasonably well educated and articulate.  In the medical field in some capacity - like selling medical equipment to hospitals or something.  He had been taught the horn thing as a child, and as he matured and learned how the world worked, he sort of guessed it was because of the limited gene pool leading to some sort of congenital cranial bony formation or something.  He knew basically nothing about Mormons other than that, so we can't exactly call him an anti-mormon, more like the innocent dupe of antimormons. 

By the way, there are two good responses to the horn thing:

1- "Yep, I had them removed as a child.  Most of us do.  The surgery is pretty safe, sometimes there's a problem with hair growth, but that's rare.  It does leave two rather flat spots though - wanna feel?  Here- put your finger here and here.  Feel that?"
"I don't feel anything."
"Not even a little foolish?"

2- Same setup, but do it in a quiet voice, almost a whisper, barely bordering on an intimate act.  When the fingers are touching you jerk your mouth towards one finger and make a barking noise like you're trying to bite the finger.  This one is rarely the appropriate response, but when it works, it's comedy gold. 

[My wife was too flustered to use either response, and just kept it conversational.]

Edited January 23, 2024 by LoudmouthMormon

[Craig Speechly]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:35 PM, Calm said:

Do you believe Church leadership accepts antimormon accusations that Joseph instituted plural marriage because he wanted to have sex with other women besides his wife?

Do you believe Church leadership accepts the accusation that Joseph hid the rock in the hat so others couldn’t see that he was just making stuff up?

See that's the beauty of anti Mormon charges...they are built on a kernel of truth and then taken to an extreme.  While both of your examples involve speculation on the part of the accuser requiring getting inside Smith's head and can't in anyway be proven as being true, they are built on the truth that Smith did marry multiple women, that is a fact and one result of his rock in hat was that the witnesses could not see into the hat to see what if anything was happening to the rock.  Even this didn't prevent speculation on the part of Martin Harris who claimed that the rock would glow and that a script would appear in the rock.

But your post said anti Mormon accusations that had no tib bit of truth in them?  What are examples of these?

Edited January 23, 2024 by Craig Speechly

[Craig Speechly]

3 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I was once told to my face that we aren't allowed to read the Bible.  When I responded that we actually spend around a quarter of our Sunday School time in the Old Testament and another quarter in the New, I was reassured that no, unless something has very recently changed, we don't do that, the church frowns on us reading the Bible.  This was in like 2017-18.

I've heard from multiple sources that Utah has an inbreeding problem, and the reason we do so much missionary work is so we can bring converts back to Utah to give folks the opportunity to marry "outside blood".   And of course, there's Krakauer's 2003 claim: "There are incrementally higher rates of kidney failure because of in-breeding and the church sweeps it under the rug," and "The Mormons are keen on genealogy and know about their genetic defects, but they have covered it up."

Do either of those count?

And yes indeedily-doodily, someone actually asked my wife about her horns.  And it wasn't even rubbish.  This was on a flight, and dude was on a business trip.  Reasonably well educated and articulate.  In the medical field in some capacity - like selling medical equipment to hospitals or something.  He had been taught the horn thing as a child, and as he matured and learned how the world worked, he sort of guessed it was because of the limited gene pool leading to some sort of congenital cranial bony formation or something.  He knew basically nothing about Mormons other than that, so we can't exactly call him an anti-mormon, more like the innocent dupe of antimormons. 

By the way, there are two good responses to the horn thing:

1- "Yep, I had them removed as a child.  Most of us do.  The surgery is pretty safe, sometimes there's a problem with hair growth, but that's rare.  It does leave two rather flat spots though - wanna feel?  Here- put your finger here and here.  Feel that?"
"I don't feel anything."
"Not even a little foolish?"

2- Same setup, but do it in a quiet voice, almost a whisper, barely bordering on an intimate act.  When the fingers are touching you jerk your mouth towards one finger and make a barking noise like you're trying to bite the finger.  This one is rarely the appropriate response, but when it works, it's comedy gold. 

[My wife was too flustered to use either response, and just kept it conversational.]

All great examples of lies not built on truth and each is easily dismissed as absurd.

As far as the horn charge, I've never had anyone accuse me of having horn's, I've only heard that at one time Mormon's were accused of having horn's...perhaps this was a popular accusation back in the 19th century, a charge not built on any factual truth.

Edited January 23, 2024 by Craig Speechly

[bluebell]

10 minutes ago, Craig Speechly said:

As far as the horn charge, I've never had anyone accuse me of having horn's, I've only heard that at one time Mormon's were accused of having horn's...perhaps this was a popular accusation back in the 19th century, a charge not built on any factual truth.

You've missed out.  My friend and I had a really nice group of evangelical kids we met at the county fair in Wyoming (they had a booth next to our high school booth-I can't remember where they were from but I think it was somewhere in the midwest) try to inform us of the evils of mormonism after hanging out with them one night.  One girl even felt my friend's head to see if she had horns so apparently the idea was circulating in their group as fact.  This was in the mid 90s.

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I was once told to my face that we aren't allowed to read the Bible.  When I responded that we actually spend around a quarter of our Sunday School time in the Old Testament and another quarter in the New, I was reassured that no, unless something has very recently changed, we don't do that, the church frowns on us reading the Bible.  This was in like 2017-18.

I've heard from multiple sources that Utah has an inbreeding problem, and the reason we do so much missionary work is so we can bring converts back to Utah to give folks the opportunity to marry "outside blood".   And of course, there's Krakauer's 2003 claim: "There are incrementally higher rates of kidney failure because of in-breeding and the church sweeps it under the rug," and "The Mormons are keen on genealogy and know about their genetic defects, but they have covered it up."

Do either of those count?

And yes indeedily-doodily, someone actually asked my wife about her horns.  And it wasn't even rubbish.  This was on a flight, and dude was on a business trip.  Reasonably well educated and articulate.  In the medical field in some capacity - like selling medical equipment to hospitals or something.  He had been taught the horn thing as a child, and as he matured and learned how the world worked, he sort of guessed it was because of the limited gene pool leading to some sort of congenital cranial bony formation or something.  He knew basically nothing about Mormons other than that, so we can't exactly call him an anti-mormon, more like the innocent dupe of antimormons. 

By the way, there are two good responses to the horn thing:

1- "Yep, I had them removed as a child.  Most of us do.  The surgery is pretty safe, sometimes there's a problem with hair growth, but that's rare.  It does leave two rather flat spots though - wanna feel?  Here- put your finger here and here.  Feel that?"
"I don't feel anything."
"Not even a little foolish?"

2- Same setup, but do it in a quiet voice, almost a whisper, barely bordering on an intimate act.  When the fingers are touching you jerk your mouth towards one finger and make a barking noise like you're trying to bite the finger.  This one is rarely the appropriate response, but when it works, it's comedy gold. 

[My wife was too flustered to use either response, and just kept it conversational.]

🤣

[Calm]

6 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I was once told to my face that we aren't allowed to read the Bible.  When I responded that we actually spend around a quarter of our Sunday School time in the Old Testament and another quarter in the New, I was reassured that no, unless something has very recently changed, we don't do that, the church frowns on us reading the Bible.  This was in like 2017-18.

I've heard from multiple sources that Utah has an inbreeding problem, and the reason we do so much missionary work is so we can bring converts back to Utah to give folks the opportunity to marry "outside blood".   And of course, there's Krakauer's 2003 claim: "There are incrementally higher rates of kidney failure because of in-breeding and the church sweeps it under the rug," and "The Mormons are keen on genealogy and know about their genetic defects, but they have covered it up."

Do either of those count?

And yes indeedily-doodily, someone actually asked my wife about her horns.  And it wasn't even rubbish.  This was on a flight, and dude was on a business trip.  Reasonably well educated and articulate.  In the medical field in some capacity - like selling medical equipment to hospitals or something.  He had been taught the horn thing as a child, and as he matured and learned how the world worked, he sort of guessed it was because of the limited gene pool leading to some sort of congenital cranial bony formation or something.  He knew basically nothing about Mormons other than that, so we can't exactly call him an anti-mormon, more like the innocent dupe of antimormons. 

By the way, there are two good responses to the horn thing:

1- "Yep, I had them removed as a child.  Most of us do.  The surgery is pretty safe, sometimes there's a problem with hair growth, but that's rare.  It does leave two rather flat spots though - wanna feel?  Here- put your finger here and here.  Feel that?"
"I don't feel anything."
"Not even a little foolish?"

2- Same setup, but do it in a quiet voice, almost a whisper, barely bordering on an intimate act.  When the fingers are touching you jerk your mouth towards one finger and make a barking noise like you're trying to bite the finger.  This one is rarely the appropriate response, but when it works, it's comedy gold. 

[My wife was too flustered to use either response, and just kept it conversational.]

My dad had two slightly off centered bumps on his forehead he said were due to being in a major bus accident as a young adult…I assume he hit something hard when it turned over…or he just thought it was from the accident because he didn’t know what else it could be from. 
 

On the rare occasion we were asked about horns, we kids would say only the men had them and they could see where our dad has his cut off.  Since we were the only members they likely knew (the ward was pretty big, took at least 30 minutes to drive to Church iirc), they always seem to buy it. 

Edited January 24, 2024 by Calm

[Tacenda]

31 minutes ago, Calm said:

My dad had two slightly off centered bumps on his forehead he said were due to being in a major bus accident as a young adult…I assume he hit something hard when it turned over…or he just thought it was from the accident because he didn’t know what else it could be from. 
 

On the rare occasion we were asked about horns, we kids would say only the men had them and they could see where our dad has his cut off.  Since we were the only members they likely knew (the ward was pretty big, took at least 30 minutes to drive to Church iirc), they always seem to buy it. 

😆

[Stargazer]

22 hours ago, Craig Speechly said:

All great examples of lies not built on truth and each is easily dismissed as absurd.

As far as the horn charge, I've never had anyone accuse me of having horn's, I've only heard that at one time Mormon's were accused of having horn's...perhaps this was a popular accusation back in the 19th century, a charge not built on any factual truth.

Absurd lies abound, and do the believers of absurd lies. Some people don't have critical thinking skills. Or choose not to use them.